"It’s very realistic to say that we’ll have a second team in Brisbane in 2023": V'landys

[mongoose]

North Sydney isn't Parramatta or Bondi or Cronulla or Leichhardt.... Different areas different identity

yet you seem to think Redcliffe is the Sunshine coast...

 

[The Great Dane]

The game could definitely benefit from a Brisbane derby but we should have never gotten to a point in RL heartland where it was necessary to fight off the AFL. The NRL does such a poor job at expansion but even worse at holding strong in its heartlands.

RL dying in the 'heartlands' really has little to nothing to do with expansion, and the internal logic of the argument that anybody with a platform seems to make is so inconsistent that it's actually pretty funny that it keeps getting thrown around as a truism.

I mean think about it for a second; the argument goes 'we need a pro-team because without one the AFL will take over our area', but the AFL doesn't have pro teams directly representing [insert expansion market in the 'heartlands' here]. So obviously you don't need a pro team to take over said markets because the AFL are doing it across most of NSW, Qld, and the ACT without pro teams.

Which brings you to the real issue that gets ignored in all this; that the NRL's investment into grassroots and community football hasn't keep pace with the growth in it's annual expenditure like the AFL's has. In other words the NRL has neglected large portions of the grassroots for decades now while the AFL has significantly stepped up investment into their grassroots, and particularly so in their 'expansion markets', which is where most of their growth is coming from.

Don't get me wrong, theoretically pro teams in a lot of the potential expansion market's would help, but if you want to fight back against the AFL's ever increasing growth in market share across the 'Northern States' then that is a battle that will be fought almost exclusively in the grassroots, and most areas don't need a pro team directly representing them to fight it.

 

[Pippen94]

yet you seem to think Redcliffe is the Sunshine coast...

When parra take some home games to north Sydney oval you may have a point

 

[Jamberoo]

RL dying in the 'heartlands' really has little to nothing to do with expansion, and the internal logic of the argument that anybody with a platform seems to make is so inconsistent that it's actually pretty funny that it keeps getting thrown around as a truism.

I mean think about it for a second; the argument goes 'we need a pro-team because without one the AFL will take over our area', but the AFL doesn't have pro teams directly representing [insert expansion market in the 'heartlands' here]. So obviously you don't need a pro team to take over said markets because the AFL are doing it across most of NSW, Qld, and the ACT without pro teams.

Which brings you to the real issue that gets ignored in all this; that the NRL's investment into grassroots and community football hasn't keep pace with the growth in it's annual expenditure like the AFL's has. In other words the NRL has neglected large portions of the grassroots for decades now while the AFL has significantly stepped up investment into their grassroots, and particularly so in their 'expansion markets', which is where most of their growth is coming from.

Don't get me wrong, theoretically pro teams in a lot of the potential expansion market's would help, but if you want to fight back against the AFL's ever increasing growth in market share across the 'Northern States' then that is a battle that will be fought almost exclusively in the grassroots, and most areas don't need a pro team directly representing them to fight it.

They go hand in hand. The AFL would agree that having a team that represents a growth area is critical. Hence their branding of Giants as ‘Greater Western Sydney’ and putting all development west of Homebush under the Giants umbrella. Also it is why they now have 18 AFLW clubs. To make any significant changes to the fan base of a sport, you need to have the synergy of top down (pro club) and bottom up (grassroots) strategies running simultaneously.
Unfortunately any new NRL club(s) in Brisbane won’t be fully funded and run by the NRL the way the AFL runs things in NSW and Qld. AFL clubs don’t spend a cent on player development, it is all funded by the AFL. Clubs will always act in self interest and this is what the AFL has in their favour. They are basically a dictatorship. A very, very well funded dictatorship.
So the NRL should not be fooled by the finances of any bid. The money will soon evaporate without well prepared 1/3/5/10/20 year plans.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I can’t see any Chinese companies showing any interest in Rugby League at all. Have you seen any indications that this may one day be a thing? And do we really want Chinese interests controlling our game?

I see quite a few Chinese Australians at the games. The Chinese I know always talk about the game.

Leagues Clubs could rake in a tonne of cash by appealing more to the Chinese. The Sunnybank Dragons Rugby Union club draws in a lot of Chinese to play the pokies and eat meals there. It makes me wonder if the "Dragons" name has something to do with it. If so then the St George Dragons could become the biggest club in Australia with the right marketing.

 

[The Great Dane]

They go hand in hand. The AFL would agree that having a team that represents a growth area is critical. Hence their branding of Giants as ‘Greater Western Sydney’ and putting all development west of Homebush under the Giants umbrella. Also it is why they now have 18 AFLW clubs. To make any significant changes to the fan base of a sport, you need to have the synergy of top down (pro club) and bottom up (grassroots) strategies running simultaneously.

They don't have to except in the loosest sense.

There're no AFL teams in most regions, yet from the Riverina to NQ AFL participation numbers have seen unprecedented growth over the last 30 years while RL has shrunk in most regions.

 

[cumbrian Mackem]

Looks like this is happening!!

NRL expansion committee hears final presentations from Brisbane bids Dolphins, Jets and Firehawks - ABC News

www.google.com

Will this be a live event on social media?

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

He's a troll. Was anti afl cities before doing 180 to wanting new super league. Asian expansion is just new wrinkle

When I first came here I didn't see value in Adelaide and Perth. The TV viewing figures @mongoose provided sowed the seeds of doubt and Melbourne drawing more viewers than Brisbane for the GF made me realise I was wrong.

Yes I've had the pleasure of dealing with douchè for over a year now, constant derailing of every expansion thread, with nonsense and bad ideas or just plain "anarchy in syd-e-n-ey" rationalization..
Its mind blowing that people can't understand what expansion is ....
Expanding is adding to the status quo

The NSWRL/ARL/NRL had never tried to expand the game properly. Everything they've done has been with a "Sydney first" attitude. When they added four teams in 1995 it was under the condition they covered travel and accommodation costs for all Sydney clubs. If that doesn't scream "we only care about Sydney and what you can do for its broke arse clubs" then Ned Kelly is a vegan from Greenland.

No....no.... it's a circle jerk, but not a normal circle, like a freaky circle....
It's more about repeating it many times, so it will be true.... rainman style

I'm trying to get Sydneysiders to see that their myopic "Sydney first, f**k everyone else" agenda has caused stagnation and apathy. This year I have been bored shitless watching the game. I'm not the only one. @Bring back John Fifita is also bored of the game. You refuse to see that the game is in poor health outside of Sydney and it's because people are fed up with being treated like 2nd class citizens in Brisbane and 3rd class citizens in Adelaide and Perth.

Our game relies on Ch9 and Foxtel, who both bag the shit out of the game and talk up our biggest rival. We need to create a revenue stream from another source, and I hate to say it, but there's no one else in Australia who wants to touch our game. The only option is to look abroad and stop deluding ourselves into thinking everyone around the country cares about 9 suburban teams from Sydney that are so broke they need a 130% grant of the salary cap to field a team in the competition.

 

[Perth Red]

North Sydney isn't Parramatta or Bondi or Cronulla or Leichhardt.... Different areas different identity

By that logic in theory you would need a club in every suburb, but thats just nonsense. There is zero reason that if an existing nrl club took over the jnr clubs got into schools and made an effort to engage rl fans in northern suburbs that fans wouldn’t follow them. There are many multiple examples spread throughout world sport. Only Sydney, and to some extent melbourne has this weird notion that if a club isn’t within 5 km of your house it somehow can’t appeal to you.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Participation in this country is dwindling. We need to tackle this problem now or we will be in deep shit in 20 years time.

Foreign investment and expansion across Brisbane, Adelaide, Perth and New Zealand. Throw in Singapore and PNG to create a truly international sports league like none other on Earth. Ch9 and Foxtel aren't the answer to our problems.

 

[Perth Red]

RL dying in the 'heartlands' really has little to nothing to do with expansion, and the internal logic of the argument that anybody with a platform seems to make is so inconsistent that it's actually pretty funny that it keeps getting thrown around as a truism.

I mean think about it for a second; the argument goes 'we need a pro-team because without one the AFL will take over our area', but the AFL doesn't have pro teams directly representing [insert expansion market in the 'heartlands' here]. So obviously you don't need a pro team to take over said markets because the AFL are doing it across most of NSW, Qld, and the ACT without pro teams.

Which brings you to the real issue that gets ignored in all this; that the NRL's investment into grassroots and community football hasn't keep pace with the growth in it's annual expenditure like the AFL's has. In other words the NRL has neglected large portions of the grassroots for decades now while the AFL has significantly stepped up investment into their grassroots, and particularly so in their 'expansion markets', which is where most of their growth is coming from.

Don't get me wrong, theoretically pro teams in a lot of the potential expansion market's would help, but if you want to fight back against the AFL's ever increasing growth in market share across the 'Northern States' then that is a battle that will be fought almost exclusively in the grassroots, and most areas don't need a pro team directly representing them to fight it.

You’re not wrong. The biggest problem nrl has is year on year it’s losing revenue ground to afl, and afl are clever enough to spend that extra money on growing their game at grassroots and at top tier. They’d be spending three times on grass roots what the nrl does (can). But yeh let’s pretend adding another nrl club is going to turn it around.

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

I see quite a few Chinese Australians at the games. The Chinese I know always talk about the game.

Leagues Clubs could rake in a tonne of cash by appealing more to the Chinese. The Sunnybank Dragons Rugby Union club draws in a lot of Chinese to play the pokies and eat meals there. It makes me wonder if the "Dragons" name has something to do with it. If so then the St George Dragons could become the biggest club in Australia with the right marketing.

The St George area has a huge Chinese demographic and it’s always amazed me they’ve done nothing to try and capitalise on this with the Dragons…

But then again, they’ve consistently amazed me how shortsighted they can be through almost all of my adult life, with the exception of a 3-year window from 2009-11..

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

Participation in this country is dwindling. We need to tackle this problem now or we will be in deep shit in 20 years time.

Foreign investment and expansion across Brisbane, Adelaide, Perth and New Zealand. Throw in Singapore and PNG to create a truly international sports league like none other on Earth. Ch9 and Foxtel aren't the answer to our problems.

I fear you’re right. The game could be a shot duck in 20 years time…

The evolution of competition for eyeballs on screens in the last 5 years has been ridiculous. It used to be just the TV networks battling for them… but they are up against all sorts of new media these days. And stands to reason it’ll only get bigger and more diverse in time.

To me, at best Sydney clubs can sustain a fan base But they will never grow it. Sydney can be a platform to support growth. But it will never create growth on its own. Growth will come from outside Sydney.

The Broncos finished with a spoon last year but made $3m profit. If they start firing again it’ll be huge. Similar story with the Cowboys..

New eyeballs to the game is necessary to keep the game growing. Maintaining the same eyeballs will keep it alive… but if the NRL loses eyeballs…. That’s a death knell.

 

[Jim Rockford]

Only Sydney, and to some extent melbourne has this weird notion that if a club isn’t within 5 km of your house it somehow can’t appeal to you.

You post a lot of truly moronic and blatantly false garbage but this is right up there. I know scores of people who support League teams far from their homes. Many have other clubs closer to them but they choose to support who they want. You just have this pathological hatred of Sydney that consumes your life. You really need to give Rugby League away and go and support your beloved AFL or maybe Netball or Tiddlywinks.

 

[The Great Dane]

Participation in this country is dwindling. We need to tackle this problem now or we will be in deep shit in 20 years time.

Foreign investment and expansion across Brisbane, Adelaide, Perth and New Zealand. Throw in Singapore and PNG to create a truly international sports league like none other on Earth. Ch9 and Foxtel aren't the answer to our problems.

To be fair I think participation numbers this year were up on the last few years? I haven't looked into the numbers though, so that could all be increases in touch, tag, female, etc, participation and not in young males playing the full contact version of the game, but it's still something.

Then again numbers being up on the last few years are still way down on e.g. 30 years ago in the important demographics.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

To be fair I think participation numbers this year were up on the last few years? I haven't looked into the numbers though, so that could all be increases in touch, tag, female, etc, participation and not in young males playing the full contact version of the game, but it's still something.

Then again numbers being up on the last few years are still way down on e.g. 30 years ago in the important demographics.

They might have, but we are a long way back from where we were in the 80s and 90s. If we stuck with the Adelaide Rams and Western Reds we would have a larger player base in those two cities.

I think all sports exaggerate their participation numbers to some extent, either by highlighting areas where they did see growth but ignoring areas where they went backwards.

RL really needs to cosy up with primary and secondary schools to get more people to sample it. Even if it's just through Touch RL, which could be promoted as a safe mixed gender alternative to RL. If kids get a chance to play some form of the game then it will increase their likelihood of becoming lifelong fans, especially for New Australians who don't really know much about it. Whichever sport is successful at this will be king in 20 years time.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

The St George area has a huge Chinese demographic and it’s always amazed me they’ve done nothing to try and capitalise on this with the Dragons…

But then again, they’ve consistently amazed me how shortsighted they can be through almost all of my adult life, with the exception of a 3-year window from 2009-11..

If they changed their name to just the Dragons, with a red and yellow jersey and Chinese styled dragon logo, then they could develop a huge fanbase all over the country, even in Adelaide and Perth. They could take matches all over the country, which would be great for the game.

I fear you’re right. The game could be a shot duck in 20 years time…

The evolution of competition for eyeballs on screens in the last 5 years has been ridiculous. It used to be just the TV networks battling for them… but they are up against all sorts of new media these days. And stands to reason it’ll only get bigger and more diverse in time.

To me, at best Sydney clubs can sustain a fan base But they will never grow it. Sydney can be a platform to support growth. But it will never create growth on its own. Growth will come from outside Sydney.

The Broncos finished with a spoon last year but made $3m profit. If they start firing again it’ll be huge. Similar story with the Cowboys..

New eyeballs to the game is necessary to keep the game growing. Maintaining the same eyeballs will keep it alive… but if the NRL loses eyeballs…. That’s a death knell.

There are NRL players publicly stating they are more keen on trying their hand at American football. That's a terrible look for our game. It would be like Apple employees saying they use Android phones, or people from Coca Cola saying they only drink Pepsi. Kids see this and think the game must be shit if its best players want to play something else.

New Australians have to be the target over the next 20 years. If it wasn't for Polynesians and Melanesians boosting our numbers then our participation rate would be even lower. We need to get the Africans, Chinese and Indians to adopt our game. New teams in Adelaide and Perth can become successful by targeting these communities as they have no rusted on love for fumbleball.

More teams in New Zealand can only increase the participation rate in NZ, which is a good thing for the NRL and Test football.

@MugaB mocks me for suggesting it, but getting a foot in the southeast Asian market is a game changer that could make RL the richest game in the country. There's plenty of businessmen in SE Asia, but they're not going to invest in our game unless we give them a seat at the table. Imagine how big the Dragons could be if they relocated to Singapore to become the Singapore Dragons!

 

[Pippen94]

By that logic in theory you would need a club in every suburb, but thats just nonsense. There is zero reason that if an existing nrl club took over the jnr clubs got into schools and made an effort to engage rl fans in northern suburbs that fans wouldn’t follow them. There are many multiple examples spread throughout world sport. Only Sydney, and to some extent melbourne has this weird notion that if a club isn’t within 5 km of your house it somehow can’t appeal to you.

Great, guess after 20 years area should totally converted to sea eagles fans right?! Doesn't work that way - different areas have different identities.

North Sydney is a huge & lucrative catchment. Loss of NRL team has allowed other codes to establish footprint. If somebody doesn't appreciate impact of bears disappearing, then they shouldn't be here talking about expansion here

 

[Pippen94]

If they changed their name to just the Dragons, with a red and yellow jersey and Chinese styled dragon logo, then they could develop a huge fanbase all over the country, even in Adelaide and Perth. They could take matches all over the country, which would be great for the game.



There are NRL players publicly stating they are more keen on trying their hand at American football. That's a terrible look for our game. It would be like Apple employees saying they use Android phones, or people from Coca Cola saying they only drink Pepsi. Kids see this and think the game must be shit if its best players want to play something else.

New Australians have to be the target over the next 20 years. If it wasn't for Polynesians and Melanesians boosting our numbers then our participation rate would be even lower. We need to get the Africans, Chinese and Indians to adopt our game. New teams in Adelaide and Perth can become successful by targeting these communities as they have no rusted on love for fumbleball.

More teams in New Zealand can only increase the participation rate in NZ, which is a good thing for the NRL and Test football.

@MugaB mocks me for suggesting it, but getting a foot in the southeast Asian market is a game changer that could make RL the richest game in the country. There's plenty of businessmen in SE Asia, but they're not going to invest in our game unless we give them a seat at the table. Imagine how big the Dragons could be if they relocated to Singapore to become the Singapore Dragons!

Troll harder

 

[Jamberoo]

They might have, but we are a long way back from where we were in the 80s and 90s. If we stuck with the Adelaide Rams and Western Reds we would have a larger player base in those two cities.

I think all sports exaggerate their participation numbers to some extent, either by highlighting areas where they did see growth but ignoring areas where they went backwards.

RL really needs to cosy up with primary and secondary schools to get more people to sample it. Even if it's just through Touch RL, which could be promoted as a safe mixed gender alternative to RL. If kids get a chance to play some form of the game then it will increase their likelihood of becoming lifelong fans, especially for New Australians who don't really know much about it. Whichever sport is successful at this will be king in 20 years time.

Melbourne has had very little participation growth despite having the best team of the past 24 years. RL is invisible here at grassroots level. What you need is $$$ and passionate volunteers. Top down approach only does not work.