Ivan Cleary ..

[mxlegend99]

Ivan has always done well with our hookers. Seg killed it and moving Wal was a great move. People are hating on him for no reason half the time now

Hook moved Wallace. To cover for injury to Segeyaro which was ultimately the reason Segeyaro was pushed out of the club. Wallace only ever played half under Ivan.

 

[martielang]

Bennett was coming because he thought the current squad (prior to Cleary putting a broom through it) was capable of winning the comp. I don't think he would of had enough time or the ability to significantly screw our cap, everyone was already locked in.

 

[Crashtest]

Quality, well considered post.

On Bennett, his best is behind him. He only managed to get Souffs to third this season. He's obviously old and incompetent and not good enough for our great club. Ivan was a much better option being much younger and having achieved so much in his coaching career (not to mention having sired a future immortal).

Yep, Gould's roster management was shit. You really just need to look at the results associated with his recruitment: salary cap breaches; we never made the finals; we could never flexibly move players on when we needed to; and any players leaving always came back to bite us. Given all these issues we had under Gus, I'm sure recruitment will be much improved under Ivan and the committee - how could it not?

@mxlegend99 must have been taking the piss to even consider that Bennett + Gould could possibly have anything to offer the Panthers - a highly respected club with a proven history of success through regularly making the finals and winning premierships. Ivan & Dave are obviously the better options.

Ivan isn't the coach I would of chosen, as I think it was a mistake to bring him back. But it has happened, so I will give him a chance to prove himself - as the coach, and also as part of the recruitment committee, before judging him too harshly. I don't give a shit who he did or didn't recruit at the Tigers, hopefully he learnt from that experience and makes better decisions at Penrith.

No, he hasn't had the coaching career of Bennett obviously. But that doesn't mean that Bennett shouldn't have retired. Bennett taking a team who finished 3rd, to a team that finished 3rd, doesn't out way the shit show and upheaval he created last season across two clubs, just so he could try and orchestrate a pay out from Brisbane and an early contract from Souths. He showed were his focus and priorities were, padding up his retirement funds.

As for Gould, i think he did a lot of great things for the club. But he also made bad recruiting decisions, let wrong players go, paid way overs to recruit others, misjudged player potential and their contract value etc. Plus as head honcho, he oversaw the current culture of player attitudes, sex tapes, player disharmony etc, and rather than stay and help fix it, he quit. So its not as if all things were great and rosy prior to Gould leaving. Even Gould himself was devastated by what he learned during the investigation after the sex tape scandal.

I'm not saying that Cleary, Cameron and Alexander will prove any better than Gould at managing the roster and salary cap. But I'm willing to see what they can achieve before I judge them. Hopefully they take a strategic longer term view, which wouldn't of happened with Bennett here for only two years e.g. his time at Newcastle.

 

[Crashtest]

Bennett was coming because he thought the current squad (prior to Cleary putting a broom through it) was capable of winning the comp. I don't think he would of had enough time or the ability to significantly screw our cap, everyone was already locked in.

Do you really think Bennett was actually coming here though? Or were we just another of the teams he was using to bump up his salary with Souths?

I know Gould said he was in talks with Bennett, but it was also confirmed that Bennett was talks with Gold Coast, the Tigers and Souths. From the four teams, I don't think he was ever signing with anyone else bar Souths. So he could add the proud Souths brand to his coaching record, and so he could take over a stronger top 3 roster to pad up his win loss ratio before retirement.

 

[franklin2323]

Speaking of absolute bullshit. We haven't offloaded half the roster, you have no idea what we are covering and Gus offloaded a lot of players early and once again we have no idea what was covered. You are just talking shit.

From the finals team v Sharks. Peachey, CHN, Merrin and Crichton all left. Replaced by Fuimaono, Sele, Winterstein....So pretty much the exact same

 

[franklin2323]

Ivan isn't the coach I would of chosen, as I think it was a mistake to bring him back. But it has happened, so I will give him a chance to prove himself - as the coach, and also as part of the recruitment committee, before judging him too harshly. I don't give a shit who he did or didn't recruit at the Tigers, hopefully he learnt from that experience and makes better decisions at Penrith.

No, he hasn't had the coaching career of Bennett obviously. But that doesn't mean that Bennett shouldn't have retired. Bennett taking a team who finished 3rd, to a team that finished 3rd, doesn't out way the shit show and upheaval he created last season across two clubs, just so he could try and orchestrate a pay out from Brisbane and an early contract from Souths. He showed were his focus and priorities were, padding up his retirement funds.

As for Gould, i think he did a lot of great things for the club. But he also made bad recruiting decisions, let wrong players go, paid way overs to recruit others, misjudged player potential and their contract value etc. Plus as head honcho, he oversaw the current culture of player attitudes, sex tapes, player disharmony etc, and rather than stay and help fix it, he quit. So its not as if all things were great and rosy prior to Gould leaving. Even Gould himself was devastated by what he learned during the investigation after the sex tape scandal.

I'm not saying that Cleary, Cameron and Alexander will prove any better than Gould at managing the roster and salary cap. But I'm willing to see what they can achieve before I judge them. Hopefully they take a strategic longer term view, which wouldn't of happened with Bennett here for only two years e.g. his time at Newcastle.

Great post. The last paragraph is exactly my thoughts. They might be no better but Gus wasn't exactly firing in cap management either

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

Ivan isn't the coach I would of chosen, as I think it was a mistake to bring him back. But it has happened, so I will give him a chance to prove himself - as the coach, and also as part of the recruitment committee, before judging him too harshly. I don't give a shit who he did or didn't recruit at the Tigers, hopefully he learnt from that experience and makes better decisions at Penrith.

No, he hasn't had the coaching career of Bennett obviously. But that doesn't mean that Bennett shouldn't have retired. Bennett taking a team who finished 3rd, to a team that finished 3rd, doesn't out way the shit show and upheaval he created last season across two clubs, just so he could try and orchestrate a pay out from Brisbane and an early contract from Souths. He showed were his focus and priorities were, padding up his retirement funds.

As for Gould, i think he did a lot of great things for the club. But he also made bad recruiting decisions, let wrong players go, paid way overs to recruit others, misjudged player potential and their contract value etc. Plus as head honcho, he oversaw the current culture of player attitudes, sex tapes, player disharmony etc, and rather than stay and help fix it, he quit. So its not as if all things were great and rosy prior to Gould leaving. Even Gould himself was devastated by what he learned during the investigation after the sex tape scandal.

I'm not saying that Cleary, Cameron and Alexander will prove any better than Gould at managing the roster and salary cap. But I'm willing to see what they can achieve before I judge them. Hopefully they take a strategic longer term view, which wouldn't of happened with Bennett here for only two years e.g. his time at Newcastle.

my thoughts almost to a T. I'm excited about the future. The players being re-signed are being done with short contracts and with less carryon.

I adore many aspects of Gus, but he had this ability to base his decisions about recruitment on falling in love with player X. Then after a period of time the passion waned, and he was released.

 

[Crashtest]

I adore many aspects of Gus, but he had this ability to base his decisions about recruitment on falling in love with player X. Then after a period of time the passion waned, and he was released.

I think Merrin is a classic example of that. Gould signed him to large three year deal, wrote in his column about what a great leader he was and that he should be made the Blues captain even though Daley had dropped him from the team, upgraded his contract during the first of his 3 year deal and extended him for another 2 years even though there were still 2 years remaining on the current one. And then by the end of the third year he forced him out the door and had to top of his salary for the remaining two years on his contract.

 

[Abacus]

Are Souths any better then they were last year?

What about the state he left Broncos in or Knights before that. There were better coaches we should of got but a 69yo Bennett wasn't it.

Also we'd be stuck with RCG and no hooker with Gus. So not so sure it is a bad thing yet still too soon to say that

Ah, Franklin. I get that you like to keep the chatter going but maybe a little less out of your arse might be good. Souths are Top 3, sames as they were last year and dealing with their own sexting scandal and GI's retirement mid-season. On the other hand, we went backwards at a rate of knots.

I'm pretty confident Gus/Bennett would have found us a hooker. I also think RCG may have been im a different mindset with Bennett.

As for Broncos and Knights, there was a lot more to those than Bennett (Tinkler, Broncs wanting Seibold). Gus would have been able to continue managing back of house with Bennett managing the on field performance.

Anyway, I think I might go and piss into the wind rather than bitch about what might have been.

 

[betcats]

The Knights was all Bennett, he got the signings he wanted and put that squad together himself. It was his choice to have them looking like a retirement home.

 

[The yak]

Anyway, I think I might go and piss into the wind rather than bitch about what might have been.

Its not rude mods. You can't see anything.

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

The Knights was all Bennett, he got the signings he wanted and put that squad together himself. It was his choice to have them looking like a retirement home.

I live in the Hunter area. Bennett's name is mud. Total mud. He had no answers and promtly left because it became too hard.

I think you just like looking at an empty glass.

 

[Abacus]

Ivan isn't the coach I would of chosen, as I think it was a mistake to bring him back. But it has happened, so I will give him a chance to prove himself - as the coach, and also as part of the recruitment committee, before judging him too harshly. I don't give a shit who he did or didn't recruit at the Tigers, hopefully he learnt from that experience and makes better decisions at Penrith.

No, he hasn't had the coaching career of Bennett obviously. But that doesn't mean that Bennett shouldn't have retired. Bennett taking a team who finished 3rd, to a team that finished 3rd, doesn't out way the shit show and upheaval he created last season across two clubs, just so he could try and orchestrate a pay out from Brisbane and an early contract from Souths. He showed were his focus and priorities were, padding up his retirement funds.

As for Gould, i think he did a lot of great things for the club. But he also made bad recruiting decisions, let wrong players go, paid way overs to recruit others, misjudged player potential and their contract value etc. Plus as head honcho, he oversaw the current culture of player attitudes, sex tapes, player disharmony etc, and rather than stay and help fix it, he quit. So its not as if all things were great and rosy prior to Gould leaving. Even Gould himself was devastated by what he learned during the investigation after the sex tape scandal.

I'm not saying that Cleary, Cameron and Alexander will prove any better than Gould at managing the roster and salary cap. But I'm willing to see what they can achieve before I judge them. Hopefully they take a strategic longer term view, which wouldn't of happened with Bennett here for only two years e.g. his time at Newcastle.

Mate, if 10+ seasons of coaching NRL is not enough for you to deduce that Cleary is a no trick pony then I'm not going to argue with you.

Bennett saw the writing on the wall at the Broncos so would have been looking for his future - hence him initially requesting an extension at the Broncs. The shit show was on the board wanting Seibold.

You realise recruitings not an exact science right? Gus took the flexible approach to roster management because he was always able to move players as needed. As for the playing environment, you're really going to try and put that on Gus? You even said he was devastated by the actions of what has turned out to be 2-3 players.

For going forward, I've got time for Brandy. But I've seen him in action - in a committee environment he's not assertive enough and goes into his shell. The rest of the committee are plodders.

IMO, Gus was trying to move away from "the Panthers way". These plodders will put is right back there where we've all been accustomed. Get your flag out and get ready to cheer for another extended period of under-performance.

 

[Abacus]

The Knights was all Bennett, he got the signings he wanted and put that squad together himself. It was his choice to have them looking like a retirement home.

I'd think the evaporation of Tinkler's cash would have had a bigger say - particularly as the whole club had to be saved.

But sure, its all Bennett.

 

[betcats]

I'd think the evaporation of Tinkler's cash would have had a bigger say - particularly as the whole club had to be saved.

But sure, its all Bennett.

No we are talking about the squad. Bennett put that squad together over a couple of years and it was terrible, full of guys who had been brought back from somewhere IE Buderus, Gower, Willie Mason, Timana Tahu....the makeup of the squad by 2014 was f**ked, it took Brown two years to get all of the shit contracts off the books. Bennett got what he wanted at the knights.

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

Mate, if 10+ seasons of coaching NRL is not enough for you to deduce that Cleary is a no trick pony then I'm not going to argue with you.

Bennett saw the writing on the wall at the Broncos so would have been looking for his future - hence him initially requesting an extension at the Broncs. The shit show was on the board wanting Seibold.

You realise recruitings not an exact science right? Gus took the flexible approach to roster management because he was always able to move players as needed. As for the playing environment, you're really going to try and put that on Gus? You even said he was devastated by the actions of what has turned out to be 2-3 players.

For going forward, I've got time for Brandy. But I've seen him in action - in a committee environment he's not assertive enough and goes into his shell. The rest of the committee are plodders.

IMO, Gus was trying to move away from "the Panthers way". These plodders will put is right back there where we've all been accustomed. Get your flag out and get ready to cheer for another extended period of under-performance.

Obviously you have Ivan ans co in a black hats. Go for it if it's your way.

I don't know enough about the board to comment. I will unlike some on here wait before throwing a coach, board or team over the cliff.

I'm not into hand wringing and doing the woe is routine. I'll wait and watch to see what the future brings.

Talent and ability doesn't magically disappear. Cleary I think will be better without Maloney. Api is a big in. So is Barrett in the coaching ranks.

I think 2020 will be a much better year.

 

[ram raid]

As for Gould, i think he did a lot of great things for the club. But he also made bad recruiting decisions, let wrong players go, paid way overs to recruit others, misjudged player potential and their contract value etc.

He did. But that just shows how hard managing a roster is. There's so many variables you can't plan for.

Personally I think this ''it's not his roster'' stuff is a cop out. A professional coach should be able to coach a bunch of professional RL players. Saying otherwise is like Trent Barrett saying he couldn't work at Manly because there wasn't enough chairs.

 

[Tronald Crump]

Personally I think this ''it's not his roster'' stuff is a cop out. A professional coach should be able to coach a bunch of professional RL players. Saying otherwise is like Trent Barrett saying he couldn't work at Manly because there wasn't enough chairs.

Just a convenient excuse to deflect the real attention from his shortcomings.
If we sign no one of note, next year he will be complaining about the youthful roster.
Funny thing is I have been hearing about us being a young team for the past 4 years.

Losers complain winners train.

 

[Crashtest]

You realise recruitings not an exact science right? Gus took the flexible approach to roster management because he was always able to move players as needed. As for the playing environment, you're really going to try and put that on Gus? You even said he was devastated by the actions of what has turned out to be 2-3 players.

Exactly, I couldn't agree with you more that recruiting is not an exact science. So why bag out Cleary so badly for making a couple of retention decisions then, when we don't know the full reason behind those decisions, nor have had any time to assess the results of them?

Re Gould, who was the head of everything football related and who oversaw and decided on the coaches, the players, the managers etc, then yes, I put that back on him to have a responsibility to guide the culture of the club and its players. If he didn't want to get involved with that, then he needed to relinquish some if his power and bring in a leader who could oversee it. Plus from his reactions after the investigation, it sounded like he unearthed more than just the couple of players in sex videos.

 

[franklin2323]

Ah, Franklin. I get that you like to keep the chatter going but maybe a little less out of your arse might be good. Souths are Top 3, sames as they were last year and dealing with their own sexting scandal and GI's retirement mid-season. On the other hand, we went backwards at a rate of knots.

I'm pretty confident Gus/Bennett would have found us a hooker. I also think RCG may have been im a different mindset with Bennett.

As for Broncos and Knights, there was a lot more to those than Bennett (Tinkler, Broncs wanting Seibold). Gus would have been able to continue managing back of house with Bennett managing the on field performance.

Anyway, I think I might go and piss into the wind rather than bitch about what might have been.

GI out Roberts in is a gain in my books. They lost no one from the last year the stayed the same.

The Knights issues was Wayne bringing in a retirement home as a FG squad.

Gus said during the Dragons game that RCG was going to be best prop in the game within 2 years...says it all right there