Ivan Cleary's Warriors formula needs time article

[Skinner]

:badgrin::badgrin::badgrin:Ahhh myth has found an ally in devoid

 

[Meth]

What am I supposed to say here...

'D'uh the fishing is good here' :blahb:

 

[Juju]

Why don't you just answer devoid's question?

You carry on like you're nz leagues great oracle because you once sold chippies in the richmond rovers canteen.
Fair-weather fans are better value then you and oz bash.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

I agree with most of your post mate. I'm guessing by Daniel Anderson you're suggesting he didn't get the same respect. I guess under Mick Watson neither did a lot of players who left midseason. I can't say I agree with that approach, and I don't think we improved through 2004 by sacking Anderson midseason.

Works in that respect as well but no, I meant Anderson returning in charge. The guy's record is second to none that is available now (is he?) and to me it looks like he's been dudded everywhere he goes. With a solid front office (something he didn't have as you mention with Watson and also at the end of the Denis Fitzgerald era) I think he could really thrive.

And if anyone believes the Polynesian issues in the past (which I don't) then surely Tony Iro as a right-hand man aids that.

I say this because I'm not sure about Bluey as a coach. Obviously the man has a brilliant pedigree as well and his man management skills seem to lift guys to another level. But the NRL is a different beast to Super League or getting the Kiwis up for tournaments. Others will know him better to judge than I.

 

[Skinner]

Why don't you just answer devoid's question?

You carry on like you're nz leagues great oracle because you once sold chippies in the richmond rovers canteen.
Fair-weather fans are better value then you and oz bash.

I would been honoured to sell chow mein (not chips you ignorant merkin) at Richmond. At least Richmond folk are real leagueys...not like the celebrants of mediocrity in this joint......f**kwit

 

[Juju]

Ok now shuffle along to the rsa and get the respect you so loudly demand. Self important nuffy:roll:

 

[Izz]

Every year Ivan's sides start off slow.

Because i feel like procrastinating the writing i should be doing, i decided to look at the Warriors' first 8 rounds of each season they've played, to see if starting slow is just a Cleary thing, or a Warrior's thing in general (not poking at you or anyone, Iafeta, just looking because i thought it might be interesting).

Here's some stattage:

After 8 rounds
Year -- W-L-D
1995 -- 3-5-0
1996 -- 5-3-0 (first round win was by forfeit)
1997 -- 3-5-0
1998 -- 2-6-0
1999 -- 2-5-0 (round 8 was a bye)
2000 -- 2-5-1
2001 -- 3-4-1
2002 -- 5-2-0 (round 1 was a bye)
2003 -- 5-3-0
2004 -- 2-5-0 (round 7 was a bye)
2005 -- 3-4-0 (round 7 was a bye)
The Cleary era
2006 -- 3-5-0
2007 -- 4-3-0 (round 6 was a bye)
2008 -- 4-4-0
2009 -- 3-4-1
2010 -- 3-5-0
2011 -- 4-4-0

So, in total, the Warriors have had winning records at the end of the 8th round 4 times. Twice under DA, once under John Monie, and once under Ivan. Every other season bar 2 the Warriors have had a losing record at the 8th round. The two 4-4 records, under Ivan too. So, out of 3 of Ivan's 6 seasons the Warriors have been even or better at the 8 round mark.

The other seasons: 3 of 11.

Not earth-shattering stats, but interesting enough. Make of them what you will.

 

[Rich102]

Interesting stats. Thanks.

 

[Auckland4ever]

Wow. Given all the heated "discussion" in this thread, was expecting to read a really inflammatory article. Seems pretty even-tempered to me.

Wouldn't have any issue with Bluey taking over, but by the same token, we could also do a hell of a lot worse than Cleary.

Re: Daniel Anderson, both his stints in the NRL have quickly resulted in great success, but also just as quickly, quite dismal failure, leaving behind a lot of turmoil. I'd be a little tentative about him returning. Plus, his sides often rely too heavily on ad-lib football, which is fine when everything is clicking, but as soon as key players lose a bit of form, there isn't much of a platform for them to work from, as the whole team is used to cutting sides up as opposed to grinding them down.

Whoever coaches us in the future, one thing they can be grateful to the Cleary era for, is instilling discipline and a good work ethic into the Warriors sides he has coached. If I was a coach about to take over, I'd rather inherit a hard working side that needed to improve its attacking prowess than a side that totally relied on the creative brilliance of a few key players, that didn't put the effort in on defense & that generally played with no heart when the chips were down.

 

[devoid]

Interesting stats, Izz. So, only three seasons have started better than this one. I remember the shock of '02 and how great it felt to see us on top of the ladder after 10 or so rounds... Anyway - why all the anger, girls? Who hasn't taken their pills?

 

[Warrior@Heart]

I don't think our lack of attack is completely Ivan's fault:
No pure centres, Ropati & Tate were good weapons and a big part of our backline.
Our backline lacks the one on one capabilty of matching it with the likes of Hodges & Gasnier which is why i think Inu would be good there once Manu comes back.
We've only really had either a support play fullback (Mckinnon) or a ball-playing fullback (Hohaia) and therefore think Locke & Fish are both good options in regards to support play hopefully one of the two can develop some ball-playing ability to provide another point of attack, someone who can not just run off Mateo but also throw a cut out to Manu.
As fo our halves i suppose they've been okay but I think Johnson/Maloney or John/Maloney would add more flair. Don't recall ever really having 2 gun halves.
Btw the big dude factory means nothing without producing Halves/hookers which looks like it may be changing considering the talent that's been coming through TC.
I don't think we have the personnel to launch a Bennett type backdoor play to perfection, or one of sheen's scrum plays but I think we do have the team that can win a title on defence. I think Ivan's game plan is the best suited option but i'd give Matulino, Mateo & Ta'ai freedom to offload and Locke freedom to roam.

 

[Jesbass]

Mate, with thne talent at the coaches disposal (The best RL nursury in the world - W.Bennet) there would be something inherently wrong if we didnt 'come close' the odd time.

You're reading between lines that I didn't write, bash. I was merely pointing out that, (for me, anyway), I'd count making the preliminary final as getting close. ;-)

 

[ozbash]

True, but I question if thats good enough.

 

[Jesbass]

True, but I question if thats good enough.

I agree, but that's a side point.

However, seeing as we're now looking at the side point, (hehe), I personally don't think 3 "almosts" in 16 seasons is good enough.

I'll happily take 3 "almosts" and 1 "bullseye" in 17 seasons, though!

 

[hitman82]

Of course, the Warriors' pre-Cleary history is totally irrelevant to the "should Cleary continue coaching us?" debate.
Personally, I believe he can and will coach us to a premiership. It may just take a while haha

 

[devoid]

I understand that some fans think we CAN'T or WON'T win a premiership under Ivan (personally, I think we CAN win under him), but does anyone think that Cleary has PREVENTED us thus far from winning the premiership?

 

[Micistm]

I don't know the answer on this one. Every year Ivan's sides start off slow. But that shouldn't mask things. I'd rather ask, why is that? I thought there were a few better signs against Penrith coincidentally. Hohaia finally started running through the middle rather than acting as a pseudo second-five-eighth. Heremaia also got out of dummy half well in the opposition 20m and went to a couple of wider plays... I even saw a decoy or two (I know, shock horror). And, Micheal Luck barely got involved in the opposition 20m zone (About time). I also like the fact they wanted to use Ukuma Ta'ai in more constructive plays.

The defence has been resilient. I can't criticise the coach for that. I acknowledge he's added some basic foundations to our structure that are vital. My main concern still lies in how we construct plays in our opposition 20m zone. Its been better the past two-three weeks, but we have significantly better attacking skills than we show under Cleary.

The only blokes however I'd replace him with are McClennan or Bennett. If neither are available Cleary retains my support. I'm not in it to go backwards.

Exactly right, you can't have no one coaching, and unless you have a specfic successor in mind, it's kind of futile really. I thought the Cleary/Iro combo would be great, and give a good mix of defence/attack. I'll still reserve judgement until it becomes obvious one way or the other. It seems in Limbo atm.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

The anti Cleary folk have definitely expressed their concerns and the reasons why they want him gone - can the pro Clearys explain why they'd keep him and why they think he's the man to bring a premiership to Beasley Ave?

 

[ozbash]

but does anyone think that Cleary has PREVENTED us thus far from winning the premiership?

yes

 

[devoid]

yes

Hahahaha! Care to add the 'Hows' and the 'Whys'?