Jack Bird

[Dragon David]

Before I cast any judgement on Jack Bird, I would like to see how he goes in the Charity Shield on Saturday night. He didn't play in the previous trial against the Eels so this next match against Souths will be interesting.

 

[Crush]

Suli has a significantly higher ceiling than Bird who peaked 5 yrs ago

I appreciate that you are trying to make a point but we don’t know that this is true just yet. What was the long term plan for Jack Bird from Hook when he signed him? He must have known that Jack wouldn’t want to take a significant pay cut when the Broncos money ran out. Did they have these discussions from day one? Jack we want to bring you to our club and resurrect your career but you’re next contract won’t be anything like your current one?
I just wonder how much forward planning goes into these things at dragons, the players should be managed.
What did Hook want when he signed Bird and why hasn’t it worked out. You can’t always blame the players and manager for wanting big contracts, coaches and clubs need to manage expectations along the way.

 

[Illusion]

I appreciate that you are trying to make a point but we don’t know that this is true just yet. What was the long term plan for Jack Bird from Hook when he signed him? He must have known that Jack wouldn’t want to take a significant pay cut when the Broncos money ran out. Did they have these discussions from day one? Jack we want to bring you to our club and resurrect your career but you’re next contract won’t be anything like your current one?
I just wonder how much forward planning goes into these things at dragons, the players should be managed.
What did Hook want when he signed Bird and why hasn’t it worked out. You can’t always blame the players and manager for wanting big contracts, coaches and clubs need to manage expectations along the way.

From what I can see Hook got who ever he could last year and even Beale got a run ..... Don't know what negotiations where with players , was it just come over on this amount then we will renegotiate ...... Time will tell ......

 

[denis preston]

Don't know what we are paying Bird this year but if he leaves next year along with Sims, that should be well over $1m in the cap to further build the quality and depth of the squad in key areas. And the following season I think is the last of Hunt's and Macca's contracts (stand to be corrected) which should free up something like $1.5m (or there abouts). As this is 2 years away, hopefully Bud and Mulheison (sorry if spelt wrong) will have gained experience and ready to step up permanently and money is then freed up again.

Just saying that cap looks like it's getting into shape snd being managed better with good money freed up each year to make additions.

Yes, hence also the reason to extend Hook to 2023. Next year we will be so cashed up for 2024 onwards to go for a couple of very, very good players and complete the roster jigsaw. At least there is a plan in place that we haven't seen since Bennett's days and paying overs for plateauing players like Simms & Bird would be very stupid.

 

[denis preston]

The Amone contract upgrade will be interesting, if he plays out of his skin this year he’ll command a decent upgrade prior to Nov 1. I don’t want him anywhere near the open market, he’s the best 5/8 talent we’ve had in 20 years. If Bird’s money goes towards locking up Amone then I think that’s a fair bargain.

Dont know MD. Still believe Amone has to show even more improvement this year for us to want to do this. We sometimes rate players on "potential " and forgive their deficiencies that we wouldn't with older players .

 

[ground zero]

If Bird accepts a 500,000 contract an four different tpa,s worth 50 000 grand each. Would that be acceptable to both parties. Just need 4 sponsors now for tpa. Over 2 years.

 

[getsmarty]

Bird is a 26 year old who has unfortunately had a stunted career due to injury. Griffin identified him as a target for SGI and brought him to the club, big tick. We nursed him through last year so he could get his confidence in his body right, mission accomplished.
Now when we are just about to cash in on our investment we are going to let him go to another club.
Next 3 years may be Birds best of his career, if he was being well paid and was happy he could have been our future captain.
I understand they want to protect cap but this hard line stance of just saying NO and not negotiating with the likes of Bird, McInnes, Sims could come back to bite us.
I hope to god that Sloan, Amone, Sullivan turn into stars of the game very quickly otherwise these isn’t much in our roster to get us near a premiership, fingers crossed.

We did negotiate with all 3...we made an offer based on what the club feels they were worth...McInnes had already decided to leave prior to Griffin arriving. Has been discussed ad nausem...

For the first time in a long time the club are not at the mercy of player managers...no way Bird is worth the money he is asking for..elite player money...as for his best years are ahead of him...time will tell...its debatable..

Do you sign someone who unfortunately has multiple injuries over his career along with arthritis on a top dollar deal ? I applaud the club on their stance...I like Bird as a player but no one is bigger than the team...We have made a very good offer to him...

If the club decides to move on and use the money elsewhere, then again I applaud their stance...a take or or leave it approach again draws a line in the sand that we are no longer pushovers and slaves to player managers.

 

[ALSGI]

We did negotiate with all 3...we made an offer based on what the club feels they were worth...McInnes had already decided to leave prior to Griffin arriving. Has been discussed ad nausem...

For the first time in a long time the club are not at the mercy of player managers...no way Bird is worth the money he is asking for..elite player money...as for his best years are ahead of him...time will tell...its debatable..

Do you sign someone who unfortunately has multiple injuries over his career along with arthritis on a top dollar deal ? I applaud the club on their stance...I like Bird as a player but no one is bigger than the team...We have made a very good offer to him...

If the club decides to move on and use the money elsewhere, then again I applaud their stance...a take or or leave it approach again draws a line in the sand that we are no longer pushovers and slaves to player managers.

Spot on.

 

[Old Timer]

Mc Fookknuckle wrecked everything he ever touched and therefore we were in a kaa kaa position and who ever replaced him would have to wear it.

So it was glaring obvious we needed to improve our roster and get the cap under control so to enable to do that you need some short term contracts and hopefully get someone else to help fund it.

So Hook did that in spades with Bird who is a quality player, come on a short term contract, cost us almost SFA and will probably move on and allow us to have a war chest.

Ask yourself if he wasn't already here how much would you be willing to pay to get him $750k?

In this place there is a very bad habit of over rating players and then falling in love with them and Bird is typically one of those.

 

[getsmarty]

Mc Fookknuckle wrecked everything he ever touched and therefore we were in a kaa kaa position and who ever replaced him would have to wear it.

So it was glaring obvious we needed to improve our roster and get the cap under control so to enable to do that you need some short term contracts and hopefully get someone else to help fund it.

So Hook did that in spades with Bird who is a quality player, come on a short term contract, cost us almost SFA and will probably move on and allow us to have a war chest.

Ask yourself if he wasn't already here how much would you be willing to pay to get him $750k?

In this place there is a very bad habit of over rating players and then falling in love with them and Bird is typically one of those.

Well Said.

 

[Inisai Toga]

We did negotiate with all 3...we made an offer based on what the club feels they were worth...McInnes had already decided to leave prior to Griffin arriving. Has been discussed ad nausem...

For the first time in a long time the club are not at the mercy of player managers...no way Bird is worth the money he is asking for..elite player money...as for his best years are ahead of him...time will tell...its debatable..

Do you sign someone who unfortunately has multiple injuries over his career along with arthritis on a top dollar deal ? I applaud the club on their stance...I like Bird as a player but no one is bigger than the team...We have made a very good offer to him...

If the club decides to move on and use the money elsewhere, then again I applaud their stance...a take or or leave it approach again draws a line in the sand that we are no longer pushovers and slaves to player managers.

Agree, plus Saints decided to only offer 3 not 4 years if I remember correctly; could be wrong, but fair enough imo; got a like for like defensive game and Ben Hunt never played as well than with McCullough as hooker…. See the logic!

 

[matPORTS]

It's best to get this paper talk out of the way at the front end of the season rather than dragging it out.

Dolphins & Eels (and potentially some other suitors) may be willing to offer a bit more than us, but I doubt they're going to be paying 'elite money' for Jack.

Jack was most certainly not an 'investment signing' on our part. There was a heavy element of risk as there was no guarantee that he was even going to get on the paddock come round one last year (but low risk from a financial standpoint as the Broncos were still covering a big chunk of his wage). This year was his first full pre-season for what? A good three or four years? It does not make financial sense at all to be paying a new big money long term deal.

If there is one thing we won't be able to discredit Hook on in the event that things don't ultimately work out - it will be his roster management and not leaving an absolute mess for the next guy to have to come and clean up. Absolute shambles for a good seven years this has been. We can't be at the mercy of the player managers.

 

[getsmarty]

It's best to get this paper talk out of the way at the front end of the season rather than dragging it out.

Dolphins & Eels (and potentially some other suitors) may be willing to offer a bit more than us, but I doubt they're going to be paying 'elite money' for Jack.

Jack was most certainly not an 'investment signing' on our part. There was a heavy element of risk as there was no guarantee that he was even going to get on the paddock come round one last year (but low risk from a financial standpoint as the Broncos were still covering a big chunk of his wage). This year was his first full pre-season for what? A good three or four years? It does not make financial sense at all to be paying a new big money long term deal.

If there is one thing we won't be able to discredit Hook on in the event that things don't ultimately work out - it will be his roster management and not leaving an absolute mess for the next guy to have to come and clean up. Absolute shambles for a good seven years this has been. We can't be at the mercy of the player managers.

Correct.... People have short memories...go and look at the mess the the current coach inherited...This Year will be the 1st that our roster looks to have depth under the new regime.

 

[Crush]

We did negotiate with all 3...we made an offer based on what the club feels they were worth...McInnes had already decided to leave prior to Griffin arriving. Has been discussed ad nausem...

For the first time in a long time the club are not at the mercy of player managers...no way Bird is worth the money he is asking for..elite player money...as for his best years are ahead of him...time will tell...its debatable..

Do you sign someone who unfortunately has multiple injuries over his career along with arthritis on a top dollar deal ? I applaud the club on their stance...I like Bird as a player but no one is bigger than the team...We have made a very good offer to him...

If the club decides to move on and use the money elsewhere, then again I applaud their stance...a take or or leave it approach again draws a line in the sand that we are no longer pushovers and slaves to player managers.

If we go on to be a powerhouse making finals year on year out then I too will applaud the clubs stance.
If we continue to miss the finals and be middle of the table plodders then I will criticise their incompetence at retaining and signing quality players.
Let’s see, round 1 just around the corner!

 

[Saints Forever]

If we go on to be a powerhouse making finals year on year out then I too will applaud the clubs stance.
If we continue to miss the finals and be middle of the table plodders then I will criticise their incompetence at retaining and signing quality players.
Let’s see, round 1 just around the corner!

Mid table?

The point is that for many years we have been below mid table. Basically ordinary to mediocre.

This is the first time in probably a decade we have some real depth.

This year we will make the 8. That’s mid table.

The target is top 4 every year. That must be the standard.

 

[Crush]

Mid table?

The point is that for many years we have been below mid table. Basically ordinary to mediocre.

This is the first time in probably a decade we have some real depth.

This year we will make the 8. That’s mid table.

The target is top 4 every year. That must be the standard.

Mid table meaning not bottom 4 but not playing finals, 10th, 11th…

 

[BLM01]

Bird is a 26 year old who has unfortunately had a stunted career due to injury. Griffin identified him as a target for SGI and brought him to the club, big tick. We nursed him through last year so he could get his confidence in his body right, mission accomplished.
Now when we are just about to cash in on our investment we are going to let him go to another club.
Next 3 years may be Birds best of his career, if he was being well paid and was happy he could have been our future captain.
I understand they want to protect cap but this hard line stance of just saying NO and not negotiating with the likes of Bird, McInnes, Sims could come back to bite us.
I hope to god that Sloan, Amone, Sullivan turn into stars of the game very quickly otherwise these isn’t much in our roster to get us near a premiership, fingers crossed.

Bird as reported got paid 900K this? & last year split between us and Broncos 50/50
The coach and all of us got a good look at him last year and believe you me he is a winner and I am a fan. He wants to stay and we are certainly not cashing in
We have upped our new contract offer (to what we were paying ) to around as reported 600-650K per year.
That is good coin for a back rower but no where near the highest but for what he has shown thus far good value.
He does not want a salary cut of 250K-300K a year (dont blame him and his manager)...but
if someone wants to risk and play 700's + for a backrower like as reported Eels or Dolphins of his calibre then good luck to them without watching him this year.

There has to be a point where you stop and go..thats all he is worth and we are doing that wisely.
Maybe we just may make a counter offer if he shows us something more this year than last, then I am OK with that too.
The ball is in his court to show the league his market worth
Another serious injury and then he would of wished he signed our contract sooner because it would be gone for good.

 

[Carlton]

Bird as reported got paid 900K this? & last year split between us and Broncos 50/50
The coach and all of us got a good look at him last year and believe you me he is a winner and I am a fan. He wants to stay and we are certainly not cashing in
We have upped our new contract offer (to what we were paying ) to around as reported 600-650K per year.
That is good coin for a back rower but no where near the highest but for what he has shown thus far good value.
He does not want a salary cut of 250K-300K a year (dont blame him and his manager)...but
if someone wants to risk and play 700's + for a backrower like as reported Eels or Dolphins of his calibre then good luck to them without watching him this year.

There has to be a point where you stop and go..thats all he is worth and we are doing that wisely.
Maybe we just may make a counter offer if he shows us something more this year than last, then I am OK with that too.
The ball is in his court to show the league his market worth
Another serious injury and then he would of wished he signed our contract sooner because it would be gone for good.

If we've offered $650K for Bird then I am pissed off. He is not worth that sort of money and in my opinion is not an elite player in any position. He is only a serviceable first grader and has injury and health issues which mean the club may be left carrying an expensive player on the sideline.

I may be wrong but Kikau was something like $800K and Niukore was $650K, these would have been much better options for secondrow. I think we got Sua for $600K, why would you pay Bird $650K with his history to play secondrow, a position where he is pretty green in first grade and so far has not demonstrated the defence or the hard carries you expect from a second rower.

 

[Rod Coil]

It just looks like his manager is doing his job. Nothing to get worked up over. I’m pretty sure we won’t pay overs if we sign him. Hook has demonstrated that repeatedly since he has joined us.

 

[getsmarty]

Mid table?

The point is that for many years we have been below mid table. Basically ordinary to mediocre.

This is the first time in probably a decade we have some real depth.

This year we will make the 8. That’s mid table.

The target is top 4 every year. That must be the standard.

Correct....unfortunately, many including myself are jaded from the previous regime.... compare our current Roster to previous years and it is a massive improvement.