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Jack Bird

Inisai Toga

Inisai Toga

Juniors
Messages
1,580
Carlton said:
I didnt say there was nothing to like about Jack Bird, I was saying that there were things that were a concern and needed to improve otherwise its hard to see where he fits in.

Stats are great but they must be looked at in conjunction with other indicators. Its not just the run metres that matter its how effective they were, did they stifle the flow because the line timing etc was poor. There's offloads and then there's offloads, if the ball is being promoted great but if it is just being dished off to someone who was going nowhere then that's poor.

Bird made 83 tackle breaks and only 5 line breaks, this is because he runs across field pushing off defenders and dancing away from them. He also made 28 errors.

I think his defence, errors and across field running need to addressed and I dont believe his utility value is as good as its made out due to the fact he has lost pace and agility.
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I do like Bird’s energy and attitude (back-row bench) but agree with your opinion on Rugby League stats. Ones often presented are so superficial and lack context and connection. Good line of argument!
 
randomdragon

randomdragon

Juniors
Messages
2,034
kit66 said:
You didn't see anything to like from Jack ? He averaged more metres than anyone else in the side including our props and that's consistently over 22 games. He made 83 tackle breaks which is more than double any other Dragons player. The most off-loads (29) which in the modern game have become so important. 4 tries, 7 assists. He can play any position 1 to 6 and 2nd row or lock if required and he can kick goals if required. His defence over 22 games at 86% TE isn't great but he was actually improving from around round 8 when playing in the backline taking his averages misses from more than 4 a game to less than 2 - it suffered when he was pushed to 2nd row but he's a 96 kg centre not a 2nd rower.
As has been said, he's got a full, injury free season under his belt, the hardest pre-season ever and arguably a stronger squad around him, we'd be mad not to have him in the 17.
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I like bird, however do you have the stats on errors per game? I swear he had at least one drop ball a game… very frustrating
 
bad boy bubby

bad boy bubby

Coach
Messages
15,206
Jack was not good for the Sharks for a season or two, as someone has posted, he was bloody great for us in 2015,16 and 17.
If you guys are so interested in stats on what he did last year I hope you arent looking at Woods attempts of tackles from the year past, because you'll be wishing Jack was playing prop.
 
Crush

Crush

Coach
Messages
11,280
bad boy bubby said:
Jack was not good for the Sharks for a season or two, as someone has posted, he was bloody great for us in 2015,16 and 17.
If you guys are so interested in stats on what he did last year I hope you arent looking at Woods attempts of tackles from the year past, because you'll be wishing Jack was playing prop.
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How dare you!
Dragons fans in here are keeping the dream alive that Woods isn’t an absolute plodder that rarely makes his tackles!
Stop with the reality check would ya!?
 
bad boy bubby

bad boy bubby

Coach
Messages
15,206
In all seriousness, if Jack isnt playing lock forward then he is the perfect number 14 for the modern game.
The problem you guys have is that Hook has bought Mbye as his 14, and because Hook has bought him for that spot, he will have him in that spot.
Mbye is your new Norman. The one that Hook cannot drop.
 
Crush

Crush

Coach
Messages
11,280
bad boy bubby said:
In all seriousness, if Jack isnt playing lock forward then he is the perfect number 14 for the modern game.
The problem you guys have is that Hook has bought Mbye as his 14, and because Hook has bought him for that spot, he will have him in that spot.
Mbye is your new Norman. The one that Hook cannot drop.
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I wouldn’t write off Hook playing Mbye at fullback or 5/8 from round 1.
You’re right, Mbye will be the new Norman, auto select.
 
T

Trifili13

Juniors
Messages
1,135
bad boy bubby said:
Jack was not good for the Sharks for a season or two, as someone has posted, he was bloody great for us in 2015,16 and 17.
If you guys are so interested in stats on what he did last year I hope you arent looking at Woods attempts of tackles from the year past, because you'll be wishing Jack was playing prop.
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That was me who said a season or 2. Thanks for correcting me that it was actually 3 seasons.

A question, which top 5 or 6 team would buy him as a mainstay of their starting line up like the Dragon's? I would say very few, if any. I'd be very surprised if any of the bigger sides would have taken a punt on him given his injury history. The Dragons, being his home club and our lowly position and unable to attract top players unless we pay ridiculous overs have to take these punts and hope they work out. Much like the Burgess acquisition and guys like Woods still wanting to play. Given his injuries, I agree he had a good season last year but nothing special, and with another offseason and more confidence in his body, hopefully he has a better season this year and returns to somewhat of the player he was during the years you mentioned.
 
bad boy bubby

bad boy bubby

Coach
Messages
15,206
Trifili13 said:
That was me who said a season or 2. Thanks for correcting me that it was actually 3 seasons.

A question, which top 5 or 6 team would buy him as a mainstay of their starting line up like the Dragon's? I would say very few, if any. I'd be very surprised if any of the bigger sides would have taken a punt on him given his injury history. The Dragons, being his home club and our lowly position and unable to attract top players unless we pay ridiculous overs have to take these punts and hope they work out. Much like the Burgess acquisition and guys like Woods still wanting to play. Given his injuries, I agree he had a good season last year but nothing special, and with another offseason and more confidence in his body, hopefully he has a better season this year and returns to somewhat of the player he was during the years you mentioned.
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You only paid in half, or less? for him. His contract is up and manager speak takes over in the press. Dont let that fool you, he will talk himself up in the media, and say how much he wants to stay, they are trained to do this. I'm actually being objective and looking at him solely as a player. He is worth it at your club, way more than what some of the players that you have.
 
T

Trifili13

Juniors
Messages
1,135
bad boy bubby said:
You only paid in half, or less? for him. His contract is up and manager speak takes over in the press. Dont let that fool you, he will talk himself up in the media, and say how much he wants to stay, they are trained to do this. I'm actually being objective and looking at him solely as a player. He is worth it at your club, way more than what some of the players that you have.
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Agree that he is a good player and was heading to becoming an above average first grader ( i am not being disparaging with that but i hate commentators calling every second player great) until his injuries. I am sure most Dragon supporters would like to see a fit and firing Bird.

IMO, the The Dragon's have had a lot of average players the last few years and our table position reflects that.

Anyway, always enjoy different views.
 
blacksafake

blacksafake

First Grade
Messages
9,622
mickeylane said:
I

I think Mbye is more than an upgrade on Norman .. totally different attitude and definitely a more adaptable player .. can easily play 1,6,7,9 .. will surprise as will Woods
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He also appears to be a man of integrity, unlike Norman who’ll be very critical of his own game & do things to rectify it.
He could have stayed at the tigers on huge money but told them he’s not earning it & asked to leave. I’d like to think he’d do the same here even though he’s not on big money.
 
Draginzaaar

Draginzaaar

Bench
Messages
3,638
blacksafake said:
He also appears to be a man of integrity, unlike Norman who’ll be very critical of his own game & do things to rectify it.
He could have stayed at the tigers on huge money but told them he’s not earning it & asked to leave. I’d like to think he’d do the same here even though he’s not on big money.
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He still get paid the full amount just that the Tigers are paying half and us half....right?
 
Dragonslayer

Dragonslayer

First Grade
Messages
7,810
Pretty certain Jack will play lock.

But which Jack?

I prefer Bird as our lock with JDB in the middle. Under the changes to the rules, I think this combo will serve us well, giving us more mobility, especially in defense. Bird is a good link player who will play lock like an edge forward.
 
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