Jdb case

[WoyD4LWoy]

Fine but what about the bruises ? Did she go home , hit herself with a hammer and then go to the police ?I'd say she went home and someone there had a discussion of what occurred and was encouraged and partnered to the hospital. She may not be very bright and needed this support.It is alright to say that the club believes that Jack has a good case to present but what angle could he be playing ? She and the cops obviously think they certainly have a water tight case for a conviction otherwise why would you put yourself through this ( for potentially 2 years ) ?

To tell the truth i don't care what or how Jack is treated ( it was a grub act at the very least consensual or not ) but I do care about the Dragons and this has potential to derail our season before a ball is kicked and for me suspension on full pay until this is resolved.

I haven't read any articles saying she had bruises.. can you link me to the article please

 

[Old Timer]

No, as usual you are wrong. He still has sponsors and pay for rep games/representative duties. That is why Brett Stewart wasn't stood down for sexual assault but for public drunkenness.



Now you are touching on philosophy. Obviously unwittingly.

You are right. He wouldn't have been offered a contract. And if he was found not guilty he should sue the accuser. But he can't get any more from the accuser than she is worth. If she has only $20.00 and a surfboard to her name, JDB could only sue her for $20.00 and a surfboard.

She could be jailed for the false accusation but if that were the case, real victims would be extremely reluctant about coming forward.

Lets just be glad that scenario isn't relevant and one of our best players will be and should be on board for round 1.

IMO from all I have heard about the case, he is not guilty. If a jury finds him guilty, I will be wrong but until then, he isn't guilty and should be available for selection.

As usual you are incorrect and have little idea of how things work.
He has s contract to play for us and we must honour the payment of that contract at club level but in fact he is only invited to play at rep level and is not guaranteed of selection and only gets paid if selected.
There are many instances where players with issues hanging over their heads have not been selected for rep duties or in fact were selected have been stood down and JDB’s situation falls into that very category.
There are no certainties re rep honours but there is certainty re his club contract.
The only hurdle for him at club level would be if there is a “bring the club into disrepute” clause but that is where he could say not convicted so entitled to be paid.

 

[Willow]

If he were a fringe first grader, they would have stood him down.

You don't know this.

 

[possm]

No, as usual you are wrong. He still has sponsors and pay for rep games/representative duties. That is why Brett Stewart wasn't stood down for sexual assault but for public drunkenness.



Now you are touching on philosophy. Obviously unwittingly.

You are right. He wouldn't have been offered a contract. And if he was found not guilty he should sue the accuser. But he can't get any more from the accuser than she is worth. If she has only $20.00 and a surfboard to her name, JDB could only sue her for $20.00 and a surfboard.

She could be jailed for the false accusation but if that were the case, real victims would be extremely reluctant about coming forward.

Lets just be glad that scenario isn't relevant and one of our best players will be and should be on board for round 1.

IMO from all I have heard about the case, he is not guilty. If a jury finds him guilty, I will be wrong but until then, he isn't guilty and should be available for selection.

Mary was offered an extension after being found guilty of DUI.

 

[Dragonslayer]

As i said previously, I believe Jdb will stand himself down from playing in matches but still train with the group.
Thers maybe a few pointers to this, including the photoshoot and the updated squad member photos (he is still wearing the old jersey), no training photos or community photos (school visits etc).
Standing himself down also has no recourse if he is found to be innocent of the charges and given the NRL's recent press release about standing down players, it may just be a catalyst for him to make the first move.

https://www.nrl.com/news/2019/02/15...to-stand-down-players-facing-serious-charges/

 

[TruSaint]

I haven't read any articles saying she had bruises.. can you link me to the article please

Its in the posted article on this thread.

"
Afterwards, the woman said she had a shower before ordering the trio an Uber to take them to Fever Nightclub.

She said she left soon after they arrived, and contacted a friend.

She then went to Wollongong Hospital where she underwent a rape test.

She was seen to have injuries to her legs, neck, lower abdomen and shoulder. "

https://www.illawarramercury.com.au...etails-of-de-belins-rape-allegation-revealed/

 

[WoyD4LWoy]

Its in the posted article on this thread.

"
Afterwards, the woman said she had a shower before ordering the trio an Uber to take them to Fever Nightclub.

She said she left soon after they arrived, and contacted a friend.

She then went to Wollongong Hospital where she underwent a rape test.

She was seen to have injuries to her legs, neck, lower abdomen and shoulder. "

https://www.illawarramercury.com.au...etails-of-de-belins-rape-allegation-revealed/

Thank you for the link.

 

[TruSaint]

Thank you for the link.

No problem at all.

 

[Willow]

For people looking for 'consistency' I suggest you research the variety of cases that have occurred in recent years, and the different degrees of severity and outcomes in those cases. Some players are stood down with pay, some have their contacts ripped up, some are allowed to play and the club sticks by them. There's a strong argument that Clubs and the NRL actually judge each incident on a case-by-case basis.

With Barba, there was CCTV footage and the Cowboys sacked him. With Shaun Kenny-Dowall, the allegations were serious but Easts stood by him (SKD was later exonerated). The two cases were similar in severity but with two entirely different outcomes.

Look at lesser severity cases like Josh Dugan misbehaving on social media, Brisbane cut him loose over that - they figured he was going to be more trouble than it was worth. But soon after Saints signed him (no doubt with conditions) - Saints figured they had the mechanisms in place to turn Dugan around. So this time it was two different clubs and two different outcomes.

The point I'm making is that it is too simple to look for contradictions. For example: "Saints don't sign Hayne but then allow JDB to play - how do they f**ken justify that!??!!!!?"

The answer, in my opinion, is this: Maybe, just maybe, there's more to this than meets the eye.

And I'll add to that the old view that you shouldn't believe everything you read in the paper.

 

[possm]

Its in the posted article on this thread.

"
Afterwards, the woman said she had a shower before ordering the trio an Uber to take them to Fever Nightclub.

She said she left soon after they arrived, and contacted a friend.

She then went to Wollongong Hospital where she underwent a rape test.

She was seen to have injuries to her legs, neck, lower abdomen and shoulder. "

https://www.illawarramercury.com.au...etails-of-de-belins-rape-allegation-revealed/

So there is still plenty of evidence to come.
Ordering Uber for 3 afterwards.
Uber drivers testimony.
Testimony of people met at the club when they all arrived afterwards.
Testimony of her friend.

 

[TruSaint]

The only point I would make

So there is still plenty of evidence to come.
Ordering Uber for 3 afterwards.
Uber drivers testimony.
Testimony of people met at the club when they all arrived afterwards.
Testimony of her friend.

According to reports, the brief of evidence in full, will be delivered to court I think Apr 17.

Suffice to say, the charges were not dropped, dismissed. he has a case to answer. I would guess, that a case of this gravity would have significant material, such as the points you outlined, along with the prosecutions findings which were deemed enough for this case to proceed.

Quote " Magistrate Roger Clisdell agreed that “on first blush it appears to be... a reasonably strong case“ "

https://tendaily.com.au/news/crime/...-dragons-star-jack-de-belin-revealed-20190212

 

[TruSaint]

Australian Rugby League Commission to consider standing down NRL players accused of serious crimes

• 
  Tim Barrow

Dragons Den

Ben Barba, Jack de Belin and Jarryd Hayne have had serious allegations made against them.
The Australian Rugby League Commission has announced it will launch a review of its policy on player behaviour, potentially opening the door to Dragons forward Jack de Belin being stood down while he faces rape allegations.

After discussions with the NRL Integrity Unit, St George Illawarra released a statement declaring de Belin would play in their upcoming trial games, starting against Newcastle next Saturday, and when the season officially kicks off on March 16.

However, on Friday, the ARL Commission said their policy framework would be reviewed as a matter of urgency, after a disastrous off-season where Ben Barba was deregistered for alleged domestic violence and Jarryd Hayne faces sexual assault allegations.

De Belin will front court against on April 17 after pleading not guilty to the charges he raped a womaninside his cousin’s apartment on Gipps Street in the early hours of December 9 last year while his friend and co-accused, Callan Sinclair, 21, watched on.

"The Australian Rugby League Commission's (ARLC) policy on player behaviour will be reviewed when the Commission meets on February 28," ARLC Chairman Peter Beattie said.

"At that time, we will consider the position put forward by Melbourne Storm Chairman, Bart Campbell and other leaders of the game. It will also be on the agenda when Club and State Chairs and CEOs meet on 28 February.

"The ARLC sets policy. The NRL implements it.

"The ARLC is strongly opposed to anyone in Rugby League being involved in violence of any kind , especially domestic violence and any behaviour which brings the game into disrepute.

"The ARLC has instructed the NRL to take the strongest possible action against any player engaged in such behaviour - from serious fines, to suspensions and de-registration."

https://www.illawarramercury.com.au...accused-of-serious-crimes-stood-down/?cs=3713

PS, thats to
@getsmarty for link.

 

[slippery5]

Its in the posted article on this thread.

"
Afterwards, the woman said she had a shower before ordering the trio an Uber to take them to Fever Nightclub.

She said she left soon after they arrived, and contacted a friend.

She then went to Wollongong Hospital where she underwent a rape test.

She was seen to have injuries to her legs, neck, lower abdomen and shoulder. "

https://www.illawarramercury.com.au...etails-of-de-belins-rape-allegation-revealed/

I've been reluctant to comment on this case, but as a former correctional officer assigned to a sex offenders gaol, my experiences where such injuries are inflicted by the perpetrator, the victim would at first opportunity alert the first person they come in contact with, to alert the authorities. I think they will be asking the question of her intoxication level & maybe those injuries (legs & shoulders etc) were possibly caused by other incidents, ( did she possible fall over at any stage & can't remember). At know stage have their been any reports she was dragged into a bush & if the reports of her actually calling an Uber for them all to ride together is just not adding up to me. I'm not saying all this is possible or not but there have been plenty of cases where the consenting person has regretted there actions & to avoid embarrassment have said they made me do it, that been of all criminal acts not just sexually.
Either way, the fact that the club (& sponsors) are standing by him tells me something doesn't add up.

 

[BennyV]

Maybe - although Packer was found guilty and copped a 2 year sentence. Jack would be facing 10+ years...

 

[Smurf]

After a person long thought process I believe ( IMO )

Innocent until proven guilty

If he is innocent ( we have done the right thing )

If he is guilty _ the law will sentence him accordingly

 

[Overseas dragon]

Interesting comparison. Perhaps you're not aware of the attitude towards women in Frank Facer's day compared to now.
In the 60s there was lot things going on that weren't reported. Probably simpler times, but not the good old days as some people want to believe.

willow back in franks day nothing would be disclosed and social media was not alive and well far different times then ...........

 

[The Damo]

I've been reluctant to comment on this case, but as a former correctional officer assigned to a sex offenders gaol, my experiences where such injuries are inflicted by the perpetrator, the victim would at first opportunity alert the first person they come in contact with, to alert the authorities. I think they will be asking the question of her intoxication level & maybe those injuries (legs & shoulders etc) were possibly caused by other incidents, ( did she possible fall over at any stage & can't remember). At know stage have their been any reports she was dragged into a bush & if the reports of her actually calling an Uber for them all to ride together is just not adding up to me. I'm not saying all this is possible or not but there have been plenty of cases where the consenting person has regretted there actions & to avoid embarrassment have said they made me do it, that been of all criminal acts not just sexually.
Either way, the fact that the club (& sponsors) are standing by him tells me something doesn't add up.

Plenty of cases? How many where the cops thought there was strong enough evidence to charge the most serious sexual assault charge? How many where the magistrate says that it appears a reasonably strong case? Because I reckon that would be a a bloody small number. However there are plenty of cases where people have been sexually assaulted and acted on very similar ways to what she describes. An ex-detective I know found nothing unusual in her statement of events, neither do women I know who’ve been assaulted.

 

[grouch]

I've been reluctant to comment on this case,

Should've stuck with that instinct.

 

[AyiosYiorgos]

NRL club bosses can’t agree if Jack de Belin should continue to play
Paul Crawley, The Daily Telegraph
17 minutes ago

Subscriber only

• DANGER: Sharks, Manly abandon Brookvale
• ANSWERS: Dragons speak on de Belin

This is not going to please the majority of rugby league fans.

But a snap-poll of NRL clubs were split right down the middle at Friday’s chief executives conference in Melbourne when the question was asked:

Should Jack de Belin be benched from playing until his rape case is settled in court?

The Saturday Telegraph can reveal that when NRL boss Todd Greenberg put that question to the room opinion was completely “divided”.

It was described as “heated but healthy discussion”.

But as one club boss later told The Saturday Telegraph: “Judging from what I heard, if was a betting man I’d say (de Belin) will be playing this year.”

While that might anger many fans, it is understood there was an overall feeling in the room of empathy given Greenberg’s unenviable predicament.

The question it all goes back to is whether NRL players deserve the same legal rights as the rest of society?

Will de Belin play? Picture by Simon Bullard.
As it stands de Belin has pleaded not guilty to a charge of aggravated sexual assault of a 19-year-old woman in a Wollongong apartment last December.

And while the matter has been adjourned until April 17, there is every chance it could take up to 18 months for the case to be completed, which is a huge problem for the NRL.

There has been enormous public outrage over the summer after a series of serious allegations relating to violence against women and calls for tougher penalties.

But when it comes to walking the talk, this meeting highlighted just how tough it is.

Some would say is not Greenberg’s job to please everyone but rather it is his job, and that of the ARL Commission, to do what is in the game’s best interests.

And sometimes that means making the unpopular decision, which appears to be the case now.

The problem for the NRL is that it is currently stated in the player code of conduct that when a player is charged with a criminal offence, the NRL would not seek to impose any sanction until the court process had been completed.

Will Greenberg step im? Picture by Adam Yip.
This could all change at an Australian Rugby League Commission meeting on February 28 that will determine if the game has the legal power to force immediate change.

It is understood the ARL Commission is now investigating its legal options, and whether imposing a sanction on de Belin would prejudice his legal case.

There is a feeling within the governing body that the onus should be on de Belin here, or his club, to make the call that it seems the NRL cannot.

But as one club boss explained, you put yourself in the Dragons’ boots?

In reality, it is the Commission, led by chairman Peter Beattie and Greenberg that implements the rules for clubs to follow.

And if they can’t make the call here, then surely the Dragons should not be expected to make it for them.

Dragons chief executive Brian Johnston finally broke his silence in a statement that simply toed the legal line.

“I acknowledge the interest and opinions surrounding the Jack de Belin legal proceedings,” Johnston said.

“This is a very difficult, complex and polarising issue, particularly for those involved, and as a club we have an obligation for player welfare.

“Aside from various contractual and welfare obligations, advice suggests that any action taken by the club may have significant ramifications and may interfere with the fairness of the judicial process.

De Belin has not been stood down by the Dragons. Photo by Matt King/Getty Images.
“As a club we support the desire and need to improve the standards of player behaviour across the game and our history would suggest that we are not afraid to take action where allegations have been proven.”

But “proven” is still the key word in all this.

In essence, if the Dragons or the NRL made the call to stand down de Belin now, and he was ultimately proved innocent, there would be hell to pay, especially given past history where players have been wrongly accused.

As Greenberg explained: “Under our current policy we have made it very clear that these are matters before the courts and that the NRL is very strong on applying natural justice to its players.

“In saying that, that’s our current policy but we’ve made it clear that we need to consider that very carefully.

“And again, each case needs to be judged on its merits and on this occasion with in the information available to the public it is very difficult.

“I understand why people are debating that.

“But the principles of our policy stand clear at the moment, that when a player is before the courts, we will stand back and allow that process to take place.”

While that might not please the vocal majority at this point, it is what it is.

 

[Brutalitops]

And if he was found not guilty he should sue the accuser.

She could be jailed for the false accusation but if that were the case, real victims would be extremely reluctant about coming forward.

You are aware that a not guilty verdict for the accused is NOT the same as meaning they have been falsely accused by the girl? In most cases is simply means insufficient evidence.