What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Jdb case

Status
Not open for further replies.

possm

Coach
Messages
15,591
For the Dragons to allow him to train and continue to play means that they are behind the player and must be pretty confident he will beat the charge. Why would they risk damaging their name and reputation of the club for 1 player. I am sure they would have spoken to all their sponsors and board members about what they should do. The got rid of Fanoua-Blake who was a big up an comer straight away for a lesser crime so again they must have felt he was not innocent hence their action.

It is a huge risk though if he ends up being guilty with a 20 year jail sentence.

Don't try and fathom any reasoning of the Club for any decisions made these days. SGI management on and off the field is a basket case. AFB was a big loss to our club and yet Manly hired him no problems and he has turned out fine.

For what it is worth, I would like to see the NRL integrity unit assume responsibility in this area and the NRL itself assume all financial responsibility regarding any decisions made. Maybe the NRL should take out an insurance policy to cover this sort type of problem. In this way the NRL can suspend with pay and the Club can get on with the job without damaging its reputation.

Only in this way can the Club and team members remain loyal to JDB while at the same time get on with the job as the decision making has been taken out of their hands.
 
Last edited:

hewi

Bench
Messages
3,785
Don't try and fathom any reasoning of the Club for any decisions made these days. SGI management on and off the field is a basket case. AFB was a big loss to our club and yet Manly hired him no problems and he has turned out fine.

For what it is worth, I would like to see the NRL integrity unit assume responsibility in this area and the NRL itself assume all financial responsibility regarding any decisions made. Maybe the NRL should take out an insurance policy to cover this sort type of problem. In this way the NRL can suspend with pay and the Club can get on with the job without damaging its reputation.

Only in this way can the Club and team members remain loyal to JDB while at the same time get on with the job as the decision making has been taken out of their hands.

I like this idea , so next question what would it mean in reference to the salary cap and your 30 top players? Ideas please?
 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
108,265
I have a feeling that JDB will stand himself down and I think that would be the only avenue left to him that would, to some extent, appease sponsors, supporters and the NRL.
Do the sponsors, NRL, Club and supporters really need appeasing?

From what I've read St George Bank (for example) are leaving it up to the Club and the NRL.

“As these allegations are before the court we are unable to comment on such legal matters, and individual player misconduct is a matter for the NRL,” a spokesperson for St George Bank said.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sp...t/news-story/05838fb816d23092494028337bb78f16

The NRL appear to be allowing for due process, as are the Club who have also signalled that they are standing by JDB. As for appeasing supporters, it seems that a good portion are giving him the presumption of innocence.
 

possm

Coach
Messages
15,591
I like this idea , so next question what would it mean in reference to the salary cap and your 30 top players? Ideas please?

If the NRL suspend JDB for a set period with or without pay, the Dragons would receive a credit to their salary cap for his salary during this period and also have permission to add another player on a temporary basis to the Dragons top 30 for that period. However, once/if the player is cleared of any wrong doing, he may resume his place in the Dragons top 30 replacing the temporary player. If a guilty verdict is found, then the contract of JDB would be terminated and the salary of the temporary player will remain to be deducted from the cap until the end of the current season.
 

Rob Dragon

Juniors
Messages
312
I have tried to stay out of this and let the due process take it's course. I must say that I am VERY UNCOMFORTABLE with DeBelin playing whilst this process takes its course. Police do not simply lay charges without (i) sufficient evidence and (ii) sufficient prospects of success. And of course I understand that the Police do not always get it right and that the presumption of innocence stands.

SGI Management need to step in now and stand DeBelin down (with pay) until and unless this matter is settled. As a father of 4, including 2 daughters I am not sure I will be able to bring myself to watch the team play with DeBelin in it. I actually feel sick about the prospect of him playing. It's a terrible, terrible look for the Club.

Leadership and standing for something please gentlemen; and do not dare to have the temerity to host a "Women in League" event this year. Appalling.
 

since77

Juniors
Messages
1,807
Reading the allegations made in court this week was really sobering. What has stayed with me since reading that was that this is a case in which there doesn’t seem to be a lot of grey area. The allegations (and of course they are just allegations at this stage) don’t paint a picture of a misunderstanding or someone simply misreading sexual signals. Based on the admittedly little that I’ve read, the accuser is either completely making the story up or the allegations are true. I can’t see any middle ground on it.
I find myself uncomfortable contemplating if he should be allowed to play or be stood down.
 

Old Kogarah Boy 1

First Grade
Messages
5,415
I have tried to stay out of this and let the due process take it's course. I must say that I am VERY UNCOMFORTABLE with DeBelin playing whilst this process takes its course. Police do not simply lay charges without (i) sufficient evidence and (ii) sufficient prospects of success. And of course I understand that the Police do not always get it right and that the presumption of innocence stands.

SGI Management need to step in now and stand DeBelin down (with pay) until and unless this matter is settled. As a father of 4, including 2 daughters I am not sure I will be able to bring myself to watch the team play with DeBelin in it. I actually feel sick about the prospect of him playing. It's a terrible, terrible look for the Club.

Leadership and standing for something please gentlemen; and do not dare to have the temerity to host a "Women in League" event this year. Appalling.

RD,
I, like you have two daughters.
I agree with all you have said with the exception of standing down with pay.
There should be no pay until the result is known.
*
 
Last edited by a moderator:

WepnutV

Juniors
Messages
285
I have tried to stay out of this and let the due process take it's course. I must say that I am VERY UNCOMFORTABLE with DeBelin playing whilst this process takes its course. Police do not simply lay charges without (i) sufficient evidence and (ii) sufficient prospects of success. And of course I understand that the Police do not always get it right and that the presumption of innocence stands.

SGI Management need to step in now and stand DeBelin down (with pay) until and unless this matter is settled. As a father of 4, including 2 daughters I am not sure I will be able to bring myself to watch the team play with DeBelin in it. I actually feel sick about the prospect of him playing. It's a terrible, terrible look for the Club.

Leadership and standing for something please gentlemen; and do not dare to have the temerity to host a "Women in League" event this year. Appalling.
have you thought that he may of given evidence to the club of his innocence and thats why the club is backing him and letting him play? As its a legal matter it would be in the best interest of the club and jack but unfortunate for the fans to say nothing of the matter.The club would of looked into it before makeing a descion to back him all the way like it seems there doing. the dragons hold a high integrity so im backing my club on this one..
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
16,937
RD,
I, like you have two daughters.
I agree with all you have said with the exception of standing down with pay.
There should be no pay until the result is known.
*
If stood down it has to be with pay as he has every right to earn an income and as he is not sacked or has not been politely terminated but the club chooses not to select him then the situation is very clear as to his entitlements
Many people are stood down awaiting court outcomes and they are all normally with full pay.
 

TruSaint

Referee
Messages
20,213
I have tried to stay out of this and let the due process take it's course. I must say that I am VERY UNCOMFORTABLE with DeBelin playing whilst this process takes its course. Police do not simply lay charges without (i) sufficient evidence and (ii) sufficient prospects of success. And of course I understand that the Police do not always get it right and that the presumption of innocence stands.

SGI Management need to step in now and stand DeBelin down (with pay) until and unless this matter is settled. As a father of 4, including 2 daughters I am not sure I will be able to bring myself to watch the team play with DeBelin in it. I actually feel sick about the prospect of him playing. It's a terrible, terrible look for the Club.

Leadership and standing for something please gentlemen; and do not dare to have the temerity to host a "Women in League" event this year. Appalling.

Well said Rob.
 

Lovemedragons

Juniors
Messages
1,326
O
Something to think about re selecting or not selecting JDB to play.
If we were playing England at Wembley and after the game the players were to be presented their medals by the Queen would the ARU select JDB if he was in form?
If he was to play in a GF and presented to ScuMo who was handing out the premiership rings and had this hanging over his head would political pressure be exerted or would ScuMo maybe say best you find someone else to present the awards?
If he was to win the Clive Churchill medal on GF would Mrs Churchill be happy to present hm the award with this hanging over his head?
A conundrum indeed.
ScuMo....I like the way you weaved Cronulla into that, nice work.
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
16,937
Regardless of whether he is an idiot or not at this time he is innocent until proven otherwise and is entitled to that presumption
So if he is stood down he is entitled to be paid unless his employment contract has a specific clause in it that says otherwise
In my 35 years of managing companies I had occsssions where employees were stood down pending investigation of allegations or incidents and they were always on full pay pending those outcomes.
It is pretty simple you pay them or terminate them but you can’t leave them in no mans land.
If you terminate them you better be 100% sure of thevground you stand on otherwise you will be taken to the cleaners.
 
Last edited:

redandwhite4evr

Juniors
Messages
1,827
Reading the allegations made in court this week was really sobering. What has stayed with me since reading that was that this is a case in which there doesn’t seem to be a lot of grey area. The allegations (and of course they are just allegations at this stage) don’t paint a picture of a misunderstanding or someone simply misreading sexual signals. Based on the admittedly little that I’ve read, the accuser is either completely making the story up or the allegations are true. I can’t see any middle ground on it.
I find myself uncomfortable contemplating if he should be allowed to play or be stood down.

While the allegations against De Belin were confronting and I have no idea whether he is guilty or innocent, I found some strange elements in the way the situation played out after the alleged rapes had taken place. The newspaper report I read stated that the girl showered, booked an Uber for the three of them and proceeded to a nightclub with them. After being at the nightclub for a short time, only then did she go to hospital.

Even allowing for shock, this is certainly a strange way to respond to an assault. Remembering what happened in Coffs Harbour with the Bulldogs and the Brett Stewart case, I'm of the view that we have to give De Belin the presumption of innocence and let him play.
 

Carrera28

Juniors
Messages
68
I have tried to stay out of this and let the due process take it's course. I must say that I am VERY UNCOMFORTABLE with DeBelin playing whilst this process takes its course. Police do not simply lay charges without (i) sufficient evidence and (ii) sufficient prospects of success. And of course I understand that the Police do not always get it right and that the presumption of innocence stands.

SGI Management need to step in now and stand DeBelin down (with pay) until and unless this matter is settled. As a father of 4, including 2 daughters I am not sure I will be able to bring myself to watch the team play with DeBelin in it. I actually feel sick about the prospect of him playing. It's a terrible, terrible look for the Club.

Leadership and standing for something please gentlemen; and do not dare to have the temerity to host a "Women in League" event this year. Appalling.

I am personally uncertain about whether he should play or should not play. To be honest when it happened in December I didn't expect to see him ever play for the Dragons again as he would go to gaol or if not guilty his reputational damage would be such that he would go to the UK to escape the scrutiny.

With the prevalence of suicide and self harm and our stronger understanding of mental issues and the Black Dog, I definitely think JDB should be provided with support and counselling by the club as he deals with the matter. This is not a statement that he should necessarily play but rather that the club should support him through that with counseling and psychological support. Brett Stewart was adversely affected by his case and his feelings of abandonment/persecution by the NRL appear to have affected him to this day. I would hate to see JDB's life damaged like that if he is found not guilty, the club needs to look after their employee's welfare while the case is happening.

From a personal perspective I think it would be better for everyone if JDB did not play but remained employed and earning his salary from SGI while the court case continues as the most balanced and respectful action for the accused and the accuser. TBH damage to the brand and club reputation are secondary to the well being of the parties involved and that should be the primary consideration of decisions. However, I fully respect that many others do not share this view and that is completely legitimate in a democratic society with free speech principles.

TBH from my perspective the laying of charges by Police does not provide an ipso facto declaration of guilt that warrants action in and of itself. Brett Stewart was charged by Police with a serious rape charge including penetration and then subsequently found to be not guilty. Subsequent facts not available at the time of charging became known to the court and he was found not guilty by a jury of his peers.

It is entirely feasible that other facts may be provided during discovery that result in a finding of not guilty.

Neither does the seriousness of charges provide ipso facto evidence warranting action; in a criminal matter the accused may be charged with a number of charges. For example in a murder case the accused may be charged with murder, manslaughter etc this because of the principle of double jeopardy ie you cannot be tried more than once on the same set of facts so the one case can have multiple charges.

However it is the headline charge that gets the press but it is not always the headline charge that the defendant is charged with. I believe the conviction rate for NSW prosecution is 90%, but that is of one charge not necessarily the headline charge or of a charge that warrants a custodial or even a criminal record. I am not aware of the detailed prosecution success rates in NSW so this percentage may be an incorrect interpretation of a 2017 statistical report.

I am unaware as to what facts if any any have been agreed by both the prosecution and defence so don't know what facts have been agreed by both parties without a shadow of a doubt. Those facts can clearly be used to consider whether he has brought the game into disrepute.

I expect to be flamed as this an emotive matter and people feel passionately about this and I welcome such reactions as it demonstrates humanity as people are shocked and horrified by the seriousness of this matter and the demanding of action is a way to demonstrate these feelings and to show perpetrators and potential perpetrators that their actions of vile acts of assault will not be tolerated.
 
Last edited:

Brutalitops

Juniors
Messages
2,333
I found some strange elements in the way the situation played out after the alleged rapes had taken place. The newspaper report I read stated that the girl showered, booked an Uber for the three of them and proceeded to a nightclub with them. After being at the nightclub for a short time, only then did she go to hospital.

Even allowing for shock, this is certainly a strange way to respond to an assault.
The presumption of innocence is obvious, but this is a really odd thing to say. Who says that's a weird way to act for someone who might have just been raped by 2 jacked footballers? That reaction is perfectly in line with something a scared or shocked person would do. Especially if she had physical injuries inflicted upon her. Fear of running until "safe" is a very normal reaction.

I shouldn't have to say JDB is innocent right until proven as of now and I'm not at all saying the above is how it happened. But the idea of scrutinising and poking holes in the story of this girl without any the details presented in court is an uncomfortable one
 

grouch

First Grade
Messages
8,393
Integrity... lol. This club cannot be trusted to do the right thing at all.

Remember when the head coach, Paul McGregor, got arrested for drink driving? Not only was he NOT sacked, the club tried to keep it secret from the NRL.
 

possm

Coach
Messages
15,591
Integrity... lol. This club cannot be trusted to do the right thing at all.

Remember when the head coach, Paul McGregor, got arrested for drink driving? Not only was he NOT sacked, the club tried to keep it secret from the NRL.

Exactly, not only was he charged by police but he did not contest it. He was guilty. What a great example set for the young impressionable players he is in charge of. Next thing you know, Mary's contract was extended.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Top