Joey or Thurston, who is GOAT?

[Lambretta]

Yeah interesting - both those guys had quality lineups around them, but in their absence the teams became ruddlerless (especially Newcastle even though they had a Rudder).

I think in the cases of both teams, Joey and Freddy were the focal point of the attack and such dominant players that when they were missing there was no one even close to being good enough to step up and fill the gap. Even when the Roosters had Adrian Lam or Craig Wing we struggled without Freddy

Also, both Freddy and Johns were amazing in defence. Not only were they great attackers, but oppositions did not come through the middle when either were there. These weren't the types to hide out on the fringes in defence like some halves. They were genuine middle defenders and time and again they smashed opposition forwards on their arses. While Freddy played, most commentators were more praising of his defence than his attack as such defensive qualities were rarely seen in halves. Freddy could easily have played his career at lock such was his frame.

But in the cases of any seriously great player, they always make those around them play better

Take a totally different sport - Football. Ian Rush is widely regarded as the greatest striker Liverpool has ever had. But if you go back and you look at the goals Ian Rush scored there is a common theme. Dalglish passes to Rush. Ian Rush scores. Almost every single time. Ian Rush with Dalglish, top scorer in the league year after year. Dalglish retires, Rush's goals dry up. Suddenly Rush is past it, older, slower etc. I am not saying Rush wasn't talented but before he joined Liverpool, he had played 34 games for Chester City in the bottom division of English football and had scored 14 goals.

If you're the greatest striker of all time and you're playing in the bottom division against crap defenders, you'd expect to score more than once every two and half games.

Great players make those around them seem better than they are. It was so with Fittler, it was so with Johns and it was so with Thurston. It's why greatness is worth what you pay them. You often get more than you pay for.

 

[Lambretta]

And who can forget that legendary front row rotation that he rode the coat tails of to reach the 2000 GF.

Ian Rubin
Peter Cusack
Dallas Hood

How the hell do you make a GF with that set of front rowers? (Though Cusack was much better 2002-2004).

That team would have won the wooden spoon without Freddy.

Never the spoon - Cusack was Mr 100% - Rubes was solid, but not spectacular.
Plus we had a pretty fuggen decent back row, Fletch, Fitzgibbon & Ricketson and Craig Wing coming off the bench

That said, the Broncos were head and shoulders above everyone that year
The comp was run to see who would come 2nd and we took out the honours thanks to Freddy
Plus our back line had speed, Sing & Mini with Mr Stupidity (my fave ever Roosters at fullback) Philips

 

[Captain Apollo]

Fittler's biggest crime is that he didn't play in the 'Hyperbole Era' where every week someone else is the GoaT.

Ermagherd GOATT!!!!

I swear ESPN spend half their airtime debating who is da GoaT between MJ and LeBron. And that trash clickbait junk has filtered down to the NRL.

Imagine if Freddy's performance in the 2000 Prelim vs Newcastle happened today. A big half time deficit then in the 2nd half plays the best footy I've ever seen - a 30m left to right bullet pass for a try; an intercept try off of a Joey pass; then a 30m right to left bullet pass for a try.

Or what about the 2002 GF where he completely dominated; setting up 4 of 5 tries and kicking the crucial 40/20. And yet he didn't even win the CCM lol Purely because there was no media and NRL driven GoaT obsession.

Contrast that with JT who played like a drunk for 79 minutes of the 2015 GF but won the CCM.

And that's not a knock on JT. Who is one of my favourite players ever and a definite Immortal imo.

It's more to highlight how this 'Hyperbole culture' has elevated the game's contemporary greats above and beyond the greats from the previous generation or two.

The other game which showed how good Brad Fittler could be was the 1995 World Cup Semi-Final against New Zealand. The Kiwis were rated the favourites, and ran down Australia to force the game into extra time with the scores locked at 20 all. Freddy then engineered the win almost single handedly scoring a try himself and setting up Terry Hill for the other to win 30-20. Many commentators who saw the game rated it as one of the best of Freddy's career.

 

[Tommy Smith]

The other game which showed how good Brad Fittler could be was the 1995 World Cup Semi-Final against New Zealand. The Kiwis were rated the favourites, and ran down Australia to force the game into extra time with the scores locked at 20 all. Freddy then engineered the win almost single handedly scoring a try himself and setting up Terry Hill for the other to win 30-20. Many commentators who saw the game rated it as one of the best of Freddy's career.

One of RLWs very few 10/10 ratings I believe.

I think what sets Freddy apart for me is that he's comfortably the greatest dual running and passing threat I've ever seen.

He scored 91 tries from 217 games, mostly at 5/8, for the Roosters. A centre would be happy with those numbers.

It highlights that he's perhaps the most dangerous ball runner of recent years, probably alongside GI.

And then you had his phenomenal long passing game which centres and wingers would feast on.

He'd regularly finish seasons with 10+ tries, 15+ line breaks, and 20+ try assists.

So as an attacking threat he's unique. Perhaps the most naturally talented I've seen.

And then of course on the other side of the ball he's one of the greatest defensive backs of all time.

I know I'm biased but by every measure he's a very worthy Immortals contender and yet he gets ignored like he was Scott Hill ffs.

I can't help but think that if he was a Qlder over the past decade then they'd already have his name down as a future Immortal.

 

[AlwaysGreen]

Last time I looked Fittler didn't play half back.

 

[Lambretta]

I know I'm biased but by every measure he's a very worthy Immortals contender .

Him and Sterlo both, but neither will be imo

 

[Dave_]

Thurston looks like a GOAT...

 

[Cheap Charlie]

I'm still awaiting the name of the great Adrian Vowles to make the GOAT list.
Anyone who can be parodied by the great Roy Slaven and HG deserves that title.

Accordingly, Rod Wishart...

 

[King hit]

I watch finals games around this time. Just put in the 2000 Roosters V Knights. One of the finest games Fittler played.

 

[gitano]

Joey easily and I'll tell you for why.
He had it all. Those who circlejerk loudest though seem to get the credit in this game and nobody loves a redneck love in like the Suncorp and 1300teeth faithful .

 

[King hit]

Cameron Smith

How many players have captained Australia to two World Cup victories?

 

[TheVelourFog]

JT's defense is nowhere near as bad as the narrative dictates

 

[Life's Good]

Fittler was very good but always in good teams. Don't recall him ever carrying a side like Johns or JT

Not trolling or anything but Fittler carried a bunch of plods for a good portion of time from when he joined the Roosters to about early 2001. Whether that makes him a GOAT is another thing but the bloke could play & repeatedly proved it.

 

[Life's Good]

The correct answer is Ricky Stuart...

I’ll take a piece of this.
Raiders died an ugly death in 1993 when Stick breaks a leg(Trevor Schodel FFS).
In 94 he returns & Raiders win the comp. Champion player.
Sh*t coach. Oh that’s been done.

 

[Angry_eel]

Shouldn't it be GOH instead of GOAT? How can you consider 1 player in a team of 13 with various positions as the greatest of all time?

Shouldn't it be a comparison among halfbacks?

Let's say, JT is the GOAT. Really? Better than Artie Beetson and Steve Price when they could prolly carry him to the try line?

 

[Danish]

I’ll take a piece of this.
Raiders died an ugly death in 1993 when Stick breaks a leg(Trevor Schodel FFS).
In 94 he returns & Raiders win the comp. Champion player.
Sh*t coach. Oh that’s been done.

If the 40/20 rule existed whenever sticky was in his prime with the raiders, opposing sides would have struggled to even gain possession

Bloke was a genius with the boot, and is a great coach providing you send him to a new club 18 months....

 

[billygilmore]

If the 40/20 rule existed whenever sticky was in his prime with the raiders, opposing sides would have struggled to even gain possession

Bloke was a genius with the boot, and is a great coach providing you send him to a new club 18 months....

I still remember that kick challenge or whatever they were called with Dale Shearer in an origin match, just kept putting Shearer further and further back in his own half

 

[beave]

I still remember that kick challenge or whatever they were called with Dale Shearer in an origin match, just kept putting Shearer further and further back in his own half

‘Kicking Duel’.

I never understood why they did it.

 

[Charlie124]

‘Kicking Duel’.

I never understood why they did it.

The best explanation i ever got for why they had kicking duels was "field position".

Im assuming that in the days before grippy synthetic balls, fullback handling errors were a lot more commonplace than they are now so perhaps it was a case of who spills their lollies first loses?

 

[perverse]

I watch finals games around this time. Just put in the 2000 Roosters V Knights. One of the finest games Fittler played.

Still gives me nightmares to this day. He had Joeys number that evening, and what a great rivalry the two teams had when both those blokes were in their prime.

Freddy gets left out of these sorts of conversations pretty unfairly, and I think it's a result of playing during that era - which was an era chock full of good to great halves, and Johns has generally come out as the accepted best of that era. Thurston's era has really seen a very low average across the board as far as halves go.

During Fittler's era (and off the top of my head, so excuse me if I miss some) you had guys like Stuart, Daley, Langer, Johns, Lockyer (although I'm not sure if he had switched to the halves while Freddy was still on the field)... and then another tier down you still had guys like Stacey Jones and Brett Kimmorley running around - and they peaked very high in their careers too. Aside from Thurston and Cronk, I'm not 100% sure another half in the past decade has even come close to a bloke like Kimmorley at his peak, let alone being fit to shine the shoes of the upper tier list from the 90's-early 2000's. In this respect I feel like Freddy is just unlucky to get lost in the wash of that era, and Thurston very fortunate to not have a lot of competition.