What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Jones experiment

Is the Stacey Jones experiment a failure

  • We have no other option

    Votes: 7 12.5%
  • No, he's going good.

    Votes: 10 17.9%
  • Yes, but we can remember the good times

    Votes: 24 42.9%
  • Yes, reputation in tatters

    Votes: 15 26.8%

  • Total voters
    56

Meth

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
35,742
I agree re grannygate- he shouldn't be playing for NZ and his selection cheapens the jersey. However, its the eligibility rules that are a farce
 

Micistm

Bench
Messages
4,470
Exactly, its not good enough, but he's all we got or, the selectors are willing to play.

Stace made no promises when he was re-signed, the media and some fans cant say the same thing though..

Agree with you there Oz, I would like some of the interviews Jones did when he signed up again replayed. He made no secret of what he was up against, planning, and thoughts on what could be achieved. The media pumped up about the 'Little General is back', and the management/coaching staff have definately been guilty of putting way too much on his plate far too quickly, while eliminating other options should it not work.
One game off the bench vs Manly...literally minutes of gameplay was enough to convince them to ditch Fein among other options and throw Jones in again fulltime? Someone needs to justify their thinking there.
And that said, Jones has been copping it full force while other players have been forgotten in our persecuting media. No he hasn't been good enough. But the Warriors haven't been good enough.
Remember Stacey Jones' 100th game for the Warriors? The 42-0 hiding of Newcastle? He was up against the mighty Joey Johns. No one in their right mind would put Jones ahead of Johns in a poll; but in that game, Newcastle was rubbish. My point is you can have the best halfback in the role, and that won't matter squat if the rest of the team is crap. And if the halfback is average along with the team-even worse of course. But the halfback alone should not be taking the flack...especially when (A) The whole teams been crap, and (B) He doesn't select himself.
Happened last year with another of Ives faves, Rovelli who he refused to drop for months. He finally conceded and put Fein in...and a good run started.
My point is all over the place, simply because the fault lies all over the place. That includes Jones but does not rest solely on him, IMO.
 

Micistm

Bench
Messages
4,470
I agree re grannygate- he shouldn't be playing for NZ and his selection cheapens the jersey. However, its the eligibility rules that are a farce

Definately agree there. I hate this musical countries stuff, and residency rules. You pledge allegence to your Country, you play for them. That's it.
 

shiznit

Coach
Messages
14,806
from:http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/league/2607464/Stacey-needs-a-minder

Stacey needs a minder
By STEVE KILGALLON - Sunday Star Times

After nine months flogging real estate and growing a tidy paunch, when turncoat Kiwi Tonie Carroll asked Brisbane if they would let him make a comeback, he was thrust straight back into the Broncos team.

There was one big reason why. Broncos captain Darren Lockyer misses more than one in every four tackles he attempts. But when Carroll defends alongside him on Brisbane's left side, Lockyer has less work to do and does it better. "I love playing outside him," Lockyer said recently. "Teams have always worried about where they run if Tunza's out there."

The Sunday Star-Times understands the Warriors have had internal debate about finding a similar "minder" to lighten the load on their key playmaker, Stacey Jones, fearing his defensive workload is blunting his attacking prowess.

Exclusive statistics prepared for the Star-Times by NRL Stats show that despite critics claiming Jones is a poor tackler, he's actually one of the best defensive halfbacks in the competition.

However, he also makes nearly twice as many tackles as some other leading halves, such as Benji Marshall, which may leave him too tired to dominate on attack.

"We talk about his [Jones'] defence a bit, and it is obvious he gets targeted, but every halfback does," says Warriors coach Ivan Cleary. "The problem is that Simon Mannering, who is probably our best minder, has had to spend time in the centres. He used to do it for [former Warriors half] Grant Rovelli and he will do that this weekend [against the Roosters]."

Jones has grown tired of his defensive abilities being examined. "We [halfbacks] are perceived as the weaker defenders," he says. "And I've copped a lot of sh*t for being a poor defensive player. I probably don't cop as much flak in Australia, where their media and fans probably focus on their teams' weaker defenders."

A standard tactic employed by every rugby league team is to "spot" the opposing halfback in the defensive line, and run their biggest players at them as often as possible. There are two obvious reasons: first, being typically light and small a halfback is most likely to miss a tackle on a big man, and second, to tire him out.

"You know it's coming," says Jones. "We do the same to the other team. We know who's running at you and what he's going to do."

Most teams respond by hiding their halves wide in the defensive line between the centre and the wing. The best example is the Tigers, who hide Marshall so well that he makes fewer than 10 tackles a game. He stands very wide and shifts around. But if the tactic doesn't work, it can mean a big opposing centre or backrower running directly at the hidden defender and forcing them into a one-on-one tackle.

That situation is where many halves fail, such as Souths' speedbump Chris Sandow, who makes effective tackles less than 70% of the time.

The halves who outshine Jones are often more sturdily built and their clubs may be hiding another playmaker, which is the case with the Roosters where Mitchell Pearce's stats are impressive and Braith Anasta is the player who is hidden.

The Warriors, in contrast, have two little men to hide, so Cleary also has to find a place for Lance Hohaia. His original plan was for a "big" standoff, Joel Moon, and he says: "I would still like to have that." Cleary says Jones is defensively sound when attacking players run straight at him. If he is left isolated and they aim for space, he can be brushed off. That's why Jones, who used to defend next to the winger, is now one slot further in, which means more work but hopefully fewer individual tackles. When he comes off the line, he has a key decision to make to read the attack and then turn his shoulders inside or outside.

"Physically, it is a difficult position to defend, but tactically, you've also got to decide whether to go in, or to go out," says Jones. "It's where all the big plays happen ... and there's only right and wrong, there's nothing in between."

The trade-off for that pressure is that Jones can be paired with a defensive second-rower who can make the initial powerful contact around the chest which makes it easier for Jones to finish the job. It also helps that Jones' speed off the line is good, which drags his centre and second row up with him to make the line harder to break.

Mannering (who averages nearly 24 tackles a game, at 87.2% efficacy) and Jacob Lillyman (24 at 82.9%) are the men who need to ensure Jones has enough energy to perform on attack, where the Warriors' recent record is remarkably dismal.

"He might do 25 tackles, but how many of those are one-on-one?" Cleary says. "It would concern me [if he did lots of one-on-ones]."

interesting article there killer... so Stacey's defense isn't as bad as some people are making out.
 

Drzoidberg

Juniors
Messages
1,135
Mautalino should have been the minder (cant put him at centre!)then we could relieve Lillyman of the "good job" he is doing.
 

ozbash

Referee
Messages
26,922
interesting article there killer... so Stacey's defense isn't as bad as some people are making out.


imo, thats most of the problem with our halves this year, they defend too much.

they are sposed to attack and create.
 

BigJ

Juniors
Messages
8
that is so true.

Defend and distribute. Thats all our halves do. No attack or creating opportunities for the outside backs.

Hence the 14 point avg this season......
 

Micistm

Bench
Messages
4,470
...Which brings us back to the point of the others, not just Jones. What are his team mates doing to help, what is his coach doing to help? If Jones has that stat of most defence, then the opposition, as suggested, have the Warriors number and are targetting him big time. Change of gameplan is required to counter it.
Gameplan doesn't change. Groundhog day!
 

Micistm

Bench
Messages
4,470
...And post match: Plenty of positives there, not far off, some good signs...next game, try and get it to Manu more...
 

madDC4

Juniors
Messages
11
I think S.Jones is doing ok.. got to remember the club aske dhim to come back..

The experience he brings is priceless.

He doesnt have the speed he use, or the same skill set, but he does still bring good skills to the game.. and he is far better then any other half that wants to make the move to NZ at the mo'... so why not keep him on till S.Johnston is ready for the step up.

(unfortunately they should of kept Fein.)
 

Micistm

Bench
Messages
4,470
I agree, he's doing 'okay.' Not setting the World on fire, but okay.
He needs help though, in a year where the whole teams been struggling. Locke was a revelation; IMO if others are not improving with months of chances then more should be bought in and given their chance
 

Meth

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
35,742
The point that the club asked him to come back is irrelevant now.

Nobody is blaming Stacey.

The 'priceless' experience that he brings is overshadowed by the cost of playing him. We don't need his experience. We have enough experience
 

JoeD

First Grade
Messages
7,056
On Fein - according to J Hart on radio sport today apparently he was demanding alot more money and a guarantee to play half back, neither things the club could give him.
 

Meth

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
35,742
On Fein - according to J Hart on radio sport today apparently he was demanding alot more money and a guarantee to play half back, neither things the club could give him.

Really?

He doesn't seem to be too fussy at the Dragons
 

Micistm

Bench
Messages
4,470
Lol, we were talking about this at work...the one book Leagueys will be waiting for is Feins. Funny how Hart will disclose contract info but the CEO won't...get the feeling Harty's feeling the oven being turned up on him. And fair enough too. Once this painful season has limped to a close messrs Hart and Cleary will have to explain a few head scratching ideas.
 

Latest posts

Top