June 2018: Aust v Eng in England - 5 ODI/+T20

[TheParraboy]

Agree we need to be faster at the top, field is up first 15 overs

Ive said it before I'm not sure Finch will be at the world up when everyone is fit and available
a run a ball ton is impressive, but when you start slow it isn't that great overall scheme of things.

Both our bowling and batting will Improve with better players. Poms wont be getting any better, we have the ability to improve a lot. Smith, Warner, Lynn MMarsh hopefully will be all fit and killing it this time next year. Carey needs an extended run, piss off Paine, leave him to prepare for the home test series.

No one in this current side, comes close to Starc, Cummins (who both can throw the willow) and Haze in the bowling dept.

Theres 7 players right there who would be in this squad easily, and possible all in the XI.

 

[Bazal]

Agree we need to be faster at the top, field is up first 15 overs

Ive said it before I'm not sure Finch will be at the world up when everyone is fit and available
a run a ball ton is impressive, but when you start slow it isn't that great overall scheme of things.

Both our bowling and batting will Improve with better players. Poms wont be getting any better, we have the ability to improve a lot. Smith, Warner, Lynn MMarsh hopefully will be all fit and killing it this time next year. Carey needs an extended run, piss off Paine, leave him to prepare for the home test series.

No one in this current side, comes close to Starc, Cummins (who both can throw the willow) and Haze in the bowling dept.

Theres 7 players right there who would be in this squad easily, and possible all in the XI.

England's approach is overrated.

Somewhere in the middle is, for me, the perfect approach. At some stage you have to be smart enough to pull back and say "hang on a second, we've lost a couple here so let's consolidate and make sure we've got set batsmen ready to launch at the back end." England are not.

We do need a faster start, but the most crucial thing is we need to balance the side better and bat the fifty. That's where a guy like Smith is sorely missed in the middle, and that's why I'd have Paine coming at 4 to rotate the strike and tick the score over during the middle overs. You can overcome a 4-5 RPO start with a good middle period and still post a big score, you don't get the chance to overcome a poor finish to the innings.

Like I said earlier, if you've got 7 wickets in hand and two set bats for the last ten, with a decent score (260 after 40 is only 6.5 an over, for example) then 100+ off those last ten is a canter most of the time because there's so much less pressure. We're failing to get to the kind of situation that England have been able to get to, and they are getting there so easily partly thanks to our poor attack

 

[ANTiLAG]

Agree we need to be faster at the top, field is up first 15 overs

Ive said it before I'm not sure Finch will be at the world up when everyone is fit and available
a run a ball ton is impressive, but when you start slow it isn't that great overall scheme of things.

Both our bowling and batting will Improve with better players. Poms wont be getting any better, we have the ability to improve a lot. Smith, Warner, Lynn MMarsh hopefully will be all fit and killing it this time next year. Carey needs an extended run, piss off Paine, leave him to prepare for the home test series.

No one in this current side, comes close to Starc, Cummins (who both can throw the willow) and Haze in the bowling dept.

Theres 7 players right there who would be in this squad easily, and possible all in the XI.

Yeah, I agree that its the speed of the scoring of the first 25 and even the first 40 overs that is the issue. Root was just ridiculous bowling out in the 27th over for just 44 runs off his 10 overs.

But the Poms will get better if injury free. They replaced Stokes with Hales (who doesn't bowl) and Woakes with Wood (who doesn't bat well).

 

[ANTiLAG]

England's approach is overrated.

Somewhere in the middle is, for me, the perfect approach. At some stage you have to be smart enough to pull back and say "hang on a second, we've lost a couple here so let's consolidate and make sure we've got set batsmen ready to launch at the back end." England are not.

We do need a faster start, but the most crucial thing is we need to balance the side better and bat the fifty. That's where a guy like Smith is sorely missed in the middle, and that's why I'd have Paine coming at 4 to rotate the strike and tick the score over during the middle overs. You can overcome a 4-5 RPO start with a good middle period and still post a big score, you don't get the chance to overcome a poor finish to the innings.

Like I said earlier, if you've got 7 wickets in hand and two set bats for the last ten, with a decent score (260 after 40 is only 6.5 an over, for example) then 100+ off those last ten is a canter most of the time because there's so much less pressure. We're failing to get to the kind of situation that England have been able to get to, and they are getting there so easily partly thanks to our poor attack

 

[Bazal]

Probably the most insightful thing you've ever posted, tbh

 

[ANTiLAG]

Probably the most insightful thing you've ever posted, tbh

Yeah - so this middle period where Smith and Paine knock it around at 4 to 5 runs an over, how exactly do they get to 260 off 40 overs?

 

[Bazal]

Yeah - so this middle period where Smith and Paine knock it around at 4 to 5 runs an over, how exactly do they get to 260 off 40 overs?

Who said they knock it around for 4-5 runs an over in the middle? And who said anything about Smith and Paine batting together? In case you missed it Smith is suspended, not much chance of him batting with Paine at the moment.

Try and ensure that, if you are going to infer something, you have actually comprehended what was written and understood all the information. Otherwise you look stupid.

Well, more stupid than usual. And you're a moron, so you've not got a lot of capital to lose here.

 

[ANTiLAG]

Who said they knock it around for 4-5 runs an over in the middle? And who said anything about Smith and Paine batting together? In case you missed it Smith is suspended, not much chance of him batting with Paine at the moment.

Try and ensure that, if you are going to infer something, you have actually comprehended what was written and understood all the information. Otherwise you look stupid.

Well, more stupid than usual. And you're a moron, so you've not got a lot of capital to lose here.

You seem rather overly aggressive. I am just curious as to how in your opinion, Australia get to 260 off 40 overs when you say

At some stage you have to be smart enough to pull back and say "hang on a second, we've lost a couple here so let's consolidate and make sure we've got set batsmen ready to launch at the back end."...the most crucial thing is we need to balance the side better and bat the fifty. That's where a guy like Smith is sorely missed in the middle, and that's why I'd have Paine coming at 4 to rotate the strike and tick the score over during the middle overs. You can overcome a 4-5 RPO start with a good middle period...Like I said earlier, if you've got 7 wickets in hand and two set bats for the last ten, with a decent score (260 after 40 is only 6.5 an over, for example) then 100+ off those last ten is a canter

So how does hitting the brakes by pulling back with Smith or Paine, "rotating and tick the score over" get a team to 260 runs after 40 overs?

 

[Bazal]

You seem rather overly aggressive. I am just curious as to how in your opinion, Australia get to 260 off 40 overs when you say



So how does hitting the breaks, with Smith or Paine, get a team to 260 runs after 40 overs?

You've always had poor comprehension skills but this one takes the cake. Let me spell it out for the geniused amongst us.

We have struggled to pace our innings, which is where we miss a player like Steve Smith, and that is why I would have a guy like Paine in the middle with a view to playing that kind of innings and allowing us the freedom England have had at the death.

Then, I say, and this is where you need to have completed second grade English...

You can overcome a 4-5 rpo START (as in, the beginning of an innings, should it prove tough at the top) with a good MIDDLE (which, funnily enough, is not the beginning of the innings).

Nowhere have I suggested hitting the "breaks". Nowhere have I suggested that Smith and Paine knock it around together, nowhere have I suggested that a 4-5 rpo middle is a good middle, or that it will get us to 260 after 40. What I have suggested is that it is only 6.5 an over to get to that point, as an example. For those who are incapable of making a proper inference, mine here is that you do not need to go ballistic all innings like England try and do in order to reach 6.5 an over. You can do so by having a good middle period EVEN IF you start a bit slower than you might like.

 

[ANTiLAG]

You've always had poor comprehension skills but this one takes the cake. Let me spell it out for the geniused amongst us.

We have struggled to pace our innings, which is where we miss a player like Steve Smith, and that is why I would have a guy like Paine in the middle with a view to playing that kind of innings and allowing us the freedom England have had at the death.

Then, I say, and this is where you need to have completed second grade English...

You can overcome a 4-5 rpo START (as in, the beginning of an innings, should it prove tough at the top) with a good MIDDLE (which, funnily enough, is not the beginning of the innings).

Nowhere have I suggested hitting the "breaks". Nowhere have I suggested that Smith and Paine knock it around together, nowhere have I suggested that a 4-5 rpo middle is a good middle, or that it will get us to 260 after 40. What I have suggested is that it is only 6.5 an over to get to that point, as an example. For those who are incapable of making a proper inference, mine here is that you do not need to go ballistic all innings like England try and do in order to reach 6.5 an over. You can do so by having a good middle period EVEN IF you start a bit slower than you might like.

You said "pull back".

So 4 runs an over for 20 overs - 80; to get to 260 in 40 overs - that requires a RR of 9.
5 runs an over for 20 overs - 100; to get to 260 in 40 overs - that requires a RR of 8.

I think I still prefer England's approach. I think yours is trying to save 7 wickets no less for the death 10 overs by going at 8 and 9 runs in the middle without losing wickets. How does that work?

Like you say - I'm stupid, but I don't get it. And I don't see how 8 or 9 runs an over is reasonably possible with Smith or Paine rotating the strike and ticking the score over in the middle overs. What is Lynn or Warner just going to blast and not get out?

 

[Bazal]

You said "pull back".

So 4 runs an over for 20 overs - 80; to get to 260 - that requires a RR of 9.
5 runs an over for 20 overs - 100; to get to 260 - that requires a RR of 8.

I think I still prefer England's approach.

You truly are geniused....

I said you have to be smart enough, having "lost a couple", to change your mindset and consolidate rather than continuing to try and bash your way out of trouble under pressure, and that I don't believe England have shown that capability.

Once again, all you've done is demonstrate an inability to understand what is written. Good job, gold star, go lick a window

 

[ANTiLAG]

You truly are geniused....

I said you have to be smart enough, having "lost a couple", to change your mindset and consolidate rather than continuing to try and bash your way out of trouble under pressure, and that I don't believe England have shown that capability.

Once again, all you've done is demonstrate an inability to understand what is written. Good job, gold star, go lick a window

I think England's playing winning cricket and got to number 1 for a reason; and they've lost plenty of early wickets with Hales and Roy. So perhaps, just perhaps, always trying to post a winning score and relying on the middle order to do it when the top order fails is smart. Perhaps batting deep is a fair strategy. And perhaps consolidating a way to a losing score isn't always smart.

But yes I am geniused, I just don't get how you regularly get a team to 260 off 40 overs with 7 wickets in hand with a start of 4 to 5 runs an over and with Smith or Paine rotating the strike and ticking the score over for the middle period.


4 runs an over for 20 overs - 80; to get to 260 in 40 overs - that requires a RR of 9.
5 runs an over for 20 overs - 100; to get to 260 in 40 overs - that requires a RR of 8.

 

[Bazal]

Anyway, explaining simple things to the forum dunce aside, what I don't understand is why we haven't gone into the series with a view to blooding some actual batsmen for a potential world cup spot? Obviously there are injuries to contend with but surely we could be giving some genuine bats a go?

Short is a start, he's clearly the kind of bat that ODI sides need these days even if he's yet to really find his feet (and a poor IPL probably hasn't helped his confidence) but as others have said I don't get why we've gone for a 1990s NZ approach with bits and pieces cricketers.

Surely something like;

Weatherald
Short
Khawaja
Head
Paine [c]
Carey
Stoinis

Is a better option than what we have run with if we aren't going to put some short term batting experience in there with a Ferguson or a Bailey.

We've gone with Marsh and Finch who surely won't be at the World Cup (but could be forgiven in the circumstances), and three "all rounders".

Jake Weatherald has a List A average of 44 at a SR of 101. Dan Hughes scored 380 runs in the last Ryobi Cup at an average of 63 and a SR of 90. Khawaja averages 46 at 90 in List A cricket even if he's yet to kick on in ODIs. Honestly I don't understand the obsession with a thousand "all rounders"

 

[Bazal]

I think England's playing winning cricket and got to number 1 for a reason; and they've lost plenty of early wickets with Hales and Roy. So perhaps, just perhaps, always trying to post a winning score and relying on the middle order to do it when the top order fails is smart. Perhaps batting deep is a fair strategy. And perhaps consolidating a way to a losing score isn't always smart.

But yes I am geniused, I just don't get how you regularly get a team to 260 off 40 overs with 7 wickets in hand with a start of 4 to 5 runs an over and with Smith or Paine rotating the strike and ticking the score over for the middle period.


4 runs an over for 20 overs - 80; to get to 260 in 40 overs - that requires a RR of 9.
5 runs an over for 20 overs - 100; to get to 260 in 40 overs - that requires a RR of 8.

Where did I say 4-5 for 20 overs?

You are making things up to back up your own mistake in inferring the wrong thing and tbh I'm not going to waste any more time (or the patience of other posters, no doubt) on correcting you. You wonder why people treat you like an idiot, take a look at this exchange...you have made an utterly incorrect read and then doubled down on it.

Stick to tugging your rod over the quality of number 8 bats

 

[ANTiLAG]

Where did I say 4-5 for 20 overs?

You are making things up to back up your own mistake in inferring the wrong thing and tbh I'm not going to waste any more time (or the patience of other posters, no doubt) on correcting you. You wonder why people treat you like an idiot, take a look at this exchange...you have made an utterly incorrect read and then doubled down on it.

Stick to tugging your rod over the quality of number 8 bats

You're always a delight to speak to. Good luck with your Steve Smith or Tim Paine rotating the strike and ticking the score over to 260/3 after 40 overs. I am sure it will work out for you.

 

[Timbo]

Bloody hell, I forgot Khawaja,

With his record in list-a cricket, and who's missing, it's pretty well unforgivable not to have him in there. So what if he's not the best fielder - he's infinitely better an option than Stoinis in the top 4.

 

[Bazal]

Bloody hell, I forgot Khawaja,

With his record in list-a cricket, and who's missing, it's pretty well unforgivable not to have him in there. So what if he's not the best fielder - he's infinitely better an option than Stoinis in the top 4.

If we can carry Finch in the field, we can carry Khawaja...

 

[ANTiLAG]

http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/23868742/nowhere-hide-england-aaron-finch

"I probably left a heap of runs out there," Finch said...

"It would have been nice to cash in and get 140 or 150 and put the pressure on them to take risks in the middle overs. We could have really kicked on and put foot the foot down in that last 12-13 overs. I take full responsibility for us not getting 330-340..."

Finch also admitted he "could have been more aggressive" against the bowling of Joe Root. Root, a part-time off-spinner, came on in the first Powerplay and bowled his entire allocation of overs - only the second time he has done so in a 112-match ODI career - straight through with Finch and co. only managing two boundaries against him. In all, Root conceded just 44 runs.

"We could have been more aggressive, no doubt," Finch said. "But the way we wanted to structure things is to be a bit more conservative with wickets in hand.[LOL!]

We are always chasing the game at the moment and it is tough for them. There's nowhere to hide in this game. We are playing the best in the world...

"But the way England are playing with the bat is putting a lot of pressure on our young attack. They're coming hard...

"The tone England are setting in one-day cricket is the benchmark in the world. They're playing like the No.1 side in the world for a reason. They're full of confidence and have a lot of depth in their batting. They have confidence to know that their Nos. 6, 7, 8 or 9 can get the job done even if things don't go well at the top of the order. They've a pretty good blueprint.

So true Finchy, so true.

 

[Twizzle]

Bloody hell, I forgot Khawaja,

With his record in list-a cricket, and who's missing, it's pretty well unforgivable not to have him in there. So what if he's not the best fielder - he's infinitely better an option than Stoinis in the top 4.

he lives too far east of the Nullabor

 

[TheParraboy]

Wether we like it or not

on these sorts of decks, on their home soil, the poms are the benchmark

We littered our t20 side with explosive and inform players, poms and kiwis couldn't touch us.

From this summer onwards we need to do the same for the ODI and prepare properly for the WC.
not like now with a patched up side hoping for the best.