Junior Development and Reward for Clubs

[Captain Apollo]

Hard to say it, but this article on the Daily Telegraph's website makes some decent points :shock: -

The Crawley Files: You’d think the Tigers are the first club to lose talent to big spenders

• by: Paul Crawley
• From: The Daily Telegraph
• May 30, 2014 12:00AM

I HAD a laugh this week when Wests Tigers chief executive Grant Mayer threatened to stop developing players if the NRL does not work out a way to compensate them for the loss of homegrown talent such as James Tedesco.

Welcome to the real world of rugby league Grant, and stop producing juniors at your own expense. No more Luke Brooks. No more Aaron Woods. Tedesco buggered it for everyone.

“The reality is James will play against us next year and when he makes his Canberra debut we get nothing from that after spending money on him for eight years,” Mayer said.

Seriously, the way Mayer was talking, you’d think the Tigers were the first club in history to lose a top young talent because they couldn’t afford to match dollars with big-spending rivals.

But this has been going on for years, ever since the game went ­professional, even before. Brad Fittler was probably the greatest junior Penrith ever produced and Freddy finished his career as a Sydney Roosters legend.

Even at the Tigers, Benji Marshall certainly didn’t grow up at Concord. The Tigers signed him as a teenager because Benji was a super talent. But the Tigers didn’t supply him with that talent, genetics did. Benji would have been a superstar no matter which club he played at, or which sport.
And let’s go through the Tigers’ roster today.

Yes, they have plenty of local juniors in their NRL squad but there is also a sprinkling of players who were developed in other systems, as there is at every club. Braith Anasta started at Souths before he went to the Bulldogs and Roosters. Keith Galloway was at Cronulla. Cory Paterson was at Newcastle and North Queensland. Marty Taupau played several years at Canterbury. James Gavet was at the Warriors and Bulldogs. Avi Seumanufagai came through the Parramatta juniors. Pat Richards was at Parramatta and the Tigers before he spent seven years in Wigan.

Where do we stop?

Greg Inglis. Gareth Widdop. Todd Carney. Josh Dugan. Blake Ferguson. Ben Barba. Johnathan Thurston. Darius Boyd. Beau Scott. Sam Burgess. Sonny Bill Williams. The point is every club loses “juniors” along the way. Canberra have lost plenty. The reason they went chasing Tedesco was because Anthony Milford was heading “home” to Brisbane. So the Raiders were prepared to spend big money on a young player who many believe could be the next Billy Slater. If the Tigers didn’t want to lose Tedesco, they knew exactly what they needed to pay to keep him.

I spoke to Tedesco’s manager Sam Ayoub on Monday night and you could sense they’d had enough of negotiations that had already dragged on for months.

Then on Tuesday Tedesco announced he was leaving.

But you tell me, if a rival employer came up to you next week and offered $200,000 a year more to go and work with them, and you were off contract, would you say no thanks?

Incredibly, that is exactly what Kevin Proctor did this week after Canberra also offered him a small fortune to leave Melbourne. After agonising over the Raiders’ huge offer, Proctor eventually said he just couldn’t leave his mates or ­Melbourne. “I just knew I would be happier here and you can’t put a price on happiness,” Proctor said.

Good luck to him. Melbourne couldn’t match the money, but Proctor decided to stay anyway.
His choice.

But that doesn’t make it wrong for Tedesco to take the money.

Tedesco said he made his decision after a game of golf with Marshall, Anasta and Tim Moltzen. “I had a good chat with them all, because they’ve all kind of been through it themselves, “ the 21-year-old said. “They’ve all had a couple of injuries and learned that you’ve got to look after yourself when the chance comes around, because you never know how long your career will last.”
And it was great advice because we have seen it happen too many times before.

It was only this month The Daily Telegraph exposed the heartbreaking story about the struggles of former Wests Tigers young gun Simon Dwyer three years after injury ended his career.

Dwyer was left disabled by rugby league after tearing five nerves from his spinal column.

But after the injury Dwyer’s playing contract was ended because the Wests Tigers couldn’t fit him in their salary cap — and he was then employed on a smaller staff deal, which is set to expire at the end of this year.

I wonder what Dwyer’s advice would be to Tedesco right now?

I am reliably informed Dwyer is still trying to work out what will happen to him beyond this year because no deal has been finalised. I remember the night Dwyer hit Jared Waerea-Hargreaves with one of the best tackles of the last decade. Like Tedesco, he was a young kid set for big things before injury struck. Now he wonders what will be with the rest of his life after one innocuous tackle went wrong.

Tedesco has already had his share of injuries and his career is still young. He has every right to look after himself, like he says, while he can.

And while you can understand the Tigers’ frustration at not being able to match the money on offer at Canberra for Tedesco, they had a choice.

Tedesco obviously wasn’t their top priority.

 

[morley101]

The Roosters seem to be expanding their Junior developent on the Central Coast
After taking over Woy Woy Leagues Club they have now made the Wyong Roos and affiliate.

http://www.roosters.com.au/news/201...with_central_coast_division_rugby_league.html

 

[Chief_Chujo]

$49,000 per junior: Why clubs want the NRL to fund development

St George Illawarra has spent up to $3.5 million developing 70 players currently with other clubs in the NRL, NSW Cup or under-20s National Youth Competition.
North Queensland have developed 67 players at a similar cost who are now contracted elsewhere in the NRL or play in other elite competitions such as the NYC and Queensland Cup, while more than 50 players who have come through Wests Tigers ranks are playing for rival clubs at either NRL or NYC level.
The figures are similar at other "development clubs" such as Canberra, Penrith, Parramatta and Newcastle, who along with the Dragons, Cowboys and Tigers supply the vast majority of talent for the NRL and other elite competitions.
The cost of developing each player from the age of 15 until they are ready for the NYC is estimated to be about $49,000, which Knights recruitment manager Peter Mulholland says includes gym fees, coaching, playing and training gear, physiotherapy and medical expenses.
Yet clubs such as St George Illawarra receive no real compensation for the players they produce from either those who recruit them or the game itself.
"This is all fundamental to the growth of the game and, from a St George Illawarra point of view, we do a lot for the game by developing elite players and continuing to invest in the game's propagation, which means participation, fans and members," Dragons chief executive Peter Doust said.
The NRL has been working with the clubs on a review of player development structures but the issue has been thrust firmly in the spotlight by Canberra's loss of boom fullback Anthony Milford to Brisbane and the Raiders targeting of West Tigers rising star James Tedesco.
Milford, 20, has been in the Raiders junior system since the age of 13 and had played just 18 NRL games when he agreed to a $900,000 per season deal with the Broncos, prompting frustrated officials to question the value of their $3 million annual investment in the club's elite development programs and the local Canberra Region Rugby League competition.
Despite Tedesco's backflip last week on a $2 million, three-year deal with Canberra, Tigers chief executive Grant Mayer is also contemplating cuts to development programs worth between $600,000 and $1 million per year.
Doust and North Queensland chief executive Peter Jourdain say their clubs spend a similar amount each season.
"We have kids as young as 13 running around in the south-west of Sydney and in the inner-west that are basically linked to the Wests Tigers, and say in the under 13s we will have 60 kids that we put through a three or four month program each year," Mayer explains.
"But how many of those kids will come through and play NRL? It could be one. So consider the amount of money spent through 13s, 14s, 15s, 16s and upwards on developing that one kid, and that one kid can then choose where he goes.
"You look at guys like Ben Te'o, Sam Moa and even before that Jarryd Hayne and Israel Folau came out of our catchment area ... but if one of them go on to play State of Origin or Test football what does this club get for that?"
Mulholland, who previously worked at Penrith and Canterbury, said: "There is a lot of cost in developing a kid and in my opinion the game should take control of development completely, then hand it back to the clubs in the sense that you have your development officers come out in their Wests Tigers gear or Penrith Panthers gear because kids associate with a Dragon or a Panther - not an NRL logo".
With the NRL requesting clubs submit individual business plans as part of the new funding model to be introduced next season, Doust has asked the NRL to use the discretionary funding element of the system to support the development work the Dragons have invested so heavily in since the 1999 merger between St George and Illawarra.
To offset a reduction over recent years of up to $5 million in funding from their leagues clubs, the Dragons have adopted the "right game, right venue" strategy to increase revenue by moving four home games to bigger venues and Doust said they did not want to cut back on development.
"We would like the NRL to contribute as we have for many, many years in supporting those programs rather than see the club retreat to just an elite program," Doust said.
"I think we have heard people like Wests Tigers talking about not investing in developing young players if we keep having them taken from our programs, well our view is that we have produced 70 for the game and we don't see that as a negative. You can't keep them all but if they are in the game and they are developing the product of rugby league we should all be happy about that."
Jourdain said the Cowboys were happy to fund their own elite pathways but believe the NRL should administer or provide grants for general game development in North Queensland under the Cowboys banner.
"We counted 67 players last week who had been in our junior development programs, and that includes guys like Aiden Guerra at the Roosters," Jourdain said.
"I think we should continue to do that for our own club's benefit but we should get some increase in our grant towards the general development stuff we do or if it is more co-ordinated and funded by the NRL that is fine as well."
North Queensland spent about $500,000 per year on each of the two areas, while the annual cost of elite development for the Dragons - who run separate St George and Illawarra teams in the Harold Mathews and SG Ball competitions - is about $800,000. In comparison, some teams are estimated to spend little more than $100,000 per year.
"Already those clubs are going to be ahead of us as a club and they will put that money in NRL football structure and they will invest more money in sports science, in equipment and facilities," Mayer said.
"They have made that choice and good luck to them whereas we have made the choice to I guess let our facilities start to crumble to a certain degree and spend the money on the development of young kids."


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...development-20140607-zs0gb.html#ixzz33xXG0whe

According the the Broncos annual report, they spent $1mil last year on junior development. Now I'm assuming the Titans dont make up the shortfall, but as it stands the Raiders invest more into junior development then all the QLD clubs combined. What a f**king joke.

Are you telling me the Broncos, a club owned by a media empire, with a profit of $2mil and one of the richest league nurseries in the world, can only afford $1mil to fund the the future of the game? Get f**ked.

And to the clubs that only put in $100k? Just f**k off out of the game please. I don't want to hear any bullshit about small catchment areas, there's obviously a heap of clubs in QLD who could use the help. I really don't think you would care what game you're playing, as long as you get that win.

This model isn't sustainable, the game will be f**ked in 20 years if it continues. Other sports will spend aggressively and we will be left with nothing.

I see three options here,

1. Salary cap concessions and transfer fees. This will both encourage and fund development.

2. Development grants. All teams are giving the same grant amount to be spent exclusively on junior development. This would move money to needed areas from clubs with small catchments. Either, or both, the salary cap and annual grant would need to take a hit though.

3. ARLC takeover funding and implement a draft. I don't want a draft but it goes hand in hand with centralised funding.

Option one is my preference. Clubs should be about more then just the NRL.

 

[BunniesMan]

I've said it all along the ARLC should take over junior development. It's all about having a proper division of labour. Professional footy clubs should focus on professional footy. And the ARLC should carry out uniform junior development across the board.

 

[DC_fan]

Professional football clubs should only have to look after themselves.

 

[Edwahu]

Describe a workable structure where the NRL funds uniform junior development.

 

[POPEYE]

Professional football clubs should only have to look after themselves.

Exactly, if a club spends loads on junior development and doesn't make the same effort in employing the best coaching/administration available what's the use. As John Lennon would agree, there should be a melting pot stirred by the ARLC and dipped from by clubs with no other responsibility than refine the product

 

[Diesel]

Notice it's the clubs that don't have major development & just recruit are the ones that win premierships?

 

[Edwahu]

So the NRL will provide 10s of million a year for this centralised system? I guess we can take it out of the grants. I'm sure the clubs won't mind.

 

[Diesel]

Professional football clubs should only have to look after themselves.

If that's the case, and the ARLC is responsible for development then ever club should pay an equal amount towards a development levy or perhaps their annual grant should be less to compensate the costs of development

 

[thorson1987]

Lol, tigers had nothing to do with Hayne and Folau you numpty Mayer. They both went to other areas before Wests got their hands on them.

And also, well said Dousty

"I think we have heard people like Wests Tigers talking about not investing in developing young players if we keep having them taken from our programs, well our view is that we have produced 70 for the game and we don't see that as a negative. You can't keep them all but if they are in the game and they are developing the product of rugby league we should all be happy about that."

You deserve a crownie for that one

 

[Noa]

Clubs can't have the nrl take over all youth development and not expect a draft to come with it.

 

[POPEYE]

If that's the case, and the ARLC is responsible for development then ever club should pay an equal amount towards a development levy or perhaps their annual grant should be less to compensate the costs of development

Every club should be made to contribute funds equally to pay for whatever it takes to interest youngsters in playing the game, no pay no play. The real job of an 'NRL' club is to provide the pinnacle that youngsters strive to reach, if a junior brought up in Parramatta finds a spot in the future Perth Reds so be it, Radradra will tell you Suva is only a little closer than Perth

 

[wibble]

Any team that gets salary cap concessions for having local juniors, will then just have more cap room to "steal" other team's juniors, and everyone will complain again that it is unfair that the junior was "stolen".

The NRL pays the clubs, so it doesn't make sense for them to pay the NRL for development. The NRL just needs to make sure junior development is happening as well as it can, and balance that with all its other priorities, and give grants to the clubs based on what is left, which is what they do. You could discuss if they are doing enough for junior development, in the context of the other things they also have to do, but it is silly to talk about clubs paying the NRL to develop juniors.

League's club, football club and junior club arrangements in each area are complicated and varied, and clubs contribute for a variety of reasons, including local political reasons. Expecting these relationships in all areas to be the same is also naive and crazy. If Mayer or Doust have concerns about how "wasted" their "investments" are, they needs to take them up with their boards.

Any Sydney team effectively has access to any Sydney junior, as the travel across the city is not so bad. Canberra juniors and NQ juniors are probably not so easy to shift, and the clubs putting money into them will probably give them better access to areas that are harder for other clubs to get into.

 

[GAZF]

Any team that gets salary cap concessions for having local juniors, will then just have more cap room to "steal" other team's juniors, and everyone will complain again that it is unfair that the junior was "stolen".

This is no different to certain teams having advantages with more access to third party payments. By setting a limit for combined 3rd party/junior development caps, teams with less access to corporate sponsors are then encouraged to focus on junior development. This also means that the well resourced clubs like the Broncos can't completely fill two caps and come out miles ahead.

 

[wibble]

This is no different to certain teams having advantages with more access to third party payments. By setting a limit for combined 3rd party/junior development caps, teams with less access to corporate sponsors are then encouraged to focus on junior development. This also means that the well resourced clubs like the Broncos can't completely fill two caps and come out miles ahead.

Absolutely.

And the same for "long term player" concessions, where the team with 2 or 3 long term players can then "poach" the only long term player on another team.

For the cap to work at all, it has to be evenly applied to all teams. The third party agreements get around this, and make the cap both less useful at evening the competition, and more useful for powerful clubs to take players from clubs with fewer TPAs. If that is what the NRL and fans want, then so be it, but why have a cap at all.

Combining TPAs and a junior cap is an interesting idea. Not sure two caps are needed though, just say here is the one cap limit, fill it how you like, get TPAs to lift some of the financial burden if you wish, put it into under 20's/juniors if you wish, but everyone has the same limit of salary that can be spent in total on players in their club (and keep minimum salary levels for different grades of player).

 

[eozsmiles]

I was sad to hear on the weekend when Don Furner come out and said that the raiders are thinking of cutting junior development and just buy players instead like most of the bigger clubs are these days.
Since the raiders have always had a good junior development program it would be sad to see this go out the window not just at the raiders but other good junior development clubs like Panthers as well, because the NRL is not rewarding the clubs that bring through their own juniors all the way to first grade.

Raiders are pretty upset that they are just developing players like Milford and co for years for only then for the big clubs coming down and taking them away,Milford is a prime example he was at the raiders since he was 16, raiders made him who he is and now he is just gone like that and raiders don't get a cent for it.


I think the main offenders in this buying instead of making your own players are clubs like the Roosters and Buldogs and recently Sharks and Eels.

I think junior development is very important for the future of the game, be a bit of a shame if all clubs started cutting funds on junior development because there is no reward.

This is a myth perpetuated by clubs without the management skills or record of success to hold any talented juniors. Up until recent times clubs like Penrith were a basket case, why would a kid throw his career away by being coached by Matt Elliott? Who would join a Stuart coached club? Saints haven't actually got a coach so nobody will be joining them right now. Why join Newcastle when they have had no success without Johns and, currently, poor leadership?

And why does everyone want a reward nowadays? Why can't you just do your best and get what you deserve, and if that's not good enough work harder until you succeed?

It's ridiculous to think that a smart kid with a big future would stay in Canberra, Saints or even Newcastle for example, if they had the opportunity to develop under a top shelf coach at a secure club with high quality senior players. Want to learn your trade with Mary/Duges/Benji or Sticky/Campo/Buttriss...... or with Bellyache and the big three?

Using Canberra as an example, it's too easy for clubs to say "Nobody will stay in Canberra and it's not fair" when they should be asking "Why would anyone want to play with a spine of Campo and Buttriss?". If you can't make your club attractive, it's just a pissweak excuse to blame the strength of others.

 

[GAZF]

Absolutely.

And the same for "long term player" concessions, where the team with 2 or 3 long term players can then "poach" the only long term player on another team.

For the cap to work at all, it has to be evenly applied to all teams. The third party agreements get around this, and make the cap both less useful at evening the competition, and more useful for powerful clubs to take players from clubs with fewer TPAs. If that is what the NRL and fans want, then so be it, but why have a cap at all.

Combining TPAs and a junior cap is an interesting idea. Not sure two caps are needed though, just say here is the one cap limit, fill it how you like, get TPAs to lift some of the financial burden if you wish, put it into under 20's/juniors if you wish, but everyone has the same limit of salary that can be spent in total on players in their club (and keep minimum salary levels for different grades of player).

This is what I meant, just worded it poorly. To me, it seems like the simplest way to improve efforts into junior development from clubs.

 

[nick87]

I completely agree
you have a salary cap for payments, and a secondary TPA/Junior cap on top of that in which players can earn their TPA or junior concessions

 

[papabear]

im a Canberra fan and I disagree with salary cap concessions for juniors

however re putting money into juniors or just saving to spend on the football club.

Every club should be responsible for having say 10000 kids playing footy on the weekend, whether that is in their local area or somewhere else they are supporting.

If clubs like easts and manly aren't doing this, then they should have to pay x dollars to the nrl for doing it.

Make no mistake the approach of easts and manly are a disease on rugby league. It is not fair for certain clubs to keep junior rugby league alive and other clubs just feed off it like vampires. Yes easts and manly I am looking at you again.