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Katich cut from contract list

HevyDevy

Coach
Messages
17,146
Geez, selectors just can't win

They don't drop either of the three batsman aged in their mid 30s and they are accused of hindering Australia's future

They drop Hussey and the non NSW fans will have same reaction, pointing out that he scored 570 runs in the Ashes and is your "form batsman"

They drop Ponting and people will froth at the mouth over an indignified end to your "best batsman since Bradman".

Come back to us when you know your cricket.
 

Sudhir

Juniors
Messages
158
I don't know what is so hard to comprehend, all I'm saying is that we would have this public outcry no matter which of the three (if any) were cut from the team.

Does anyone seriously think that any of the four decisions I mentioned, would not result in large pockets of fans and the media calling for the selector's heads?

They can't win.
 

Hallatia

Referee
Messages
26,433
If there was logical consistency to their decisions then even if we disagreed, the logic would be enough to make a good response to our disagreements. As there is no semblance of such logic, we call for the selectors' heads because they are doing a rubbish job.
 

Sudhir

Juniors
Messages
158
Of course they can - stop making illogical decisions.

It's not that difficult.
What decision would be logical?

Sack the leading run scorer of the last three years, sack the guy who scored 570 runs in the most recent Test series, or sack the player who scored a century in the WC quarter final?
 

Twizzle

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
153,782
No, if they want to sack people because of age, they should sack the worst performing ones whose careers have been declining with age, not the single best performing one.

People's reactions aren't what matters, what matters is the consistency of selection justifications. When these are inconsistent, it means the selectors are either lying (to us and/or themselves), unjustified in their decisions or both.

One good series in two years is no indication Hussey will have another good innings, because he is just getting older...

Just because someone is the "best batsman since Bradman" doesn't mean that they will spend their whole life being an incredible batsman (even Bradman got old and past it) and that their skills will not deteriorate time and subsequently their batting average and value to the team

they didn't sack him because of his age, they were careful in choosing their words

if they say he is too old, he has a case for discrimination
 

Hallatia

Referee
Messages
26,433
What he was told by Hilditch about looking to 2013 was good enough as "you're too old" and couldn't possibly mean anything else.
 

Twizzle

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
153,782
I know that but he didn't say you're too old, Hildud is a lawyer and he'd be aware of what he can and cant say
 

Sudhir

Juniors
Messages
158
What he was told by Hilditch about looking to 2013 was good enough as "you're too old" and couldn't possibly mean anything else.
Could mean that Hilditch was aware that Katich has a rubbish Test record against England and didn't think he was up to the task of helping Australia regain the Ashes in 2013.
 

Hallatia

Referee
Messages
26,433
I don't see how he could argue that what he did say meant anything else, and wouldn't that make it the same as saying 'you're too old'?
but I suppose this would be a (terrible) alternate defence he could use
Could mean that Hilditch was aware that Katich has a rubbish Test record against England and didn't think he was up to the task of helping Australia regain the Ashes in 2013.
Australia has lost 3 of the past 4 Ashes series, there are not many guys left with good test records against England
 
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HevyDevy

Coach
Messages
17,146
What decision would be logical?

Sack the leading run scorer of the last three years, sack the guy who scored 570 runs in the most recent Test series, or sack the player who scored a century in the WC quarter final?

None of the above mate.
 

HevyDevy

Coach
Messages
17,146
Could mean that Hilditch was aware that Katich has a rubbish Test record against England and didn't think he was up to the task of helping Australia regain the Ashes in 2013.

As opposed to his replacement who averages a whopping 17.11 against England ...

I don't know why you're arguing with us. We're right.
 

Hallatia

Referee
Messages
26,433
What we haven't talked about enough is Kat's likely replacement.
Who should replace Kat?
Here's Cricinfo's list of contenders
Meet the contenders
After Simon Katich's axing, Australia must find a long-term opening partner for Shane Watson. ESPNcricinfo runs the rule over the candidates who could be given chances in the next couple of years
Brydon Coverdale
June 10, 2011
Phillip Hughes, 22 (NSW)
Certainly the first in line, although he failed to have any impact during the final three Tests against England last summer when he replaced the injured Katich. However, the selectors were impressed by his 138 and 93 in the Sheffield Shield final in March, and he also made a century in the last Shield game before the decider. His technique will always be questioned, but twin hundreds in his second Test, in tough conditions in Durban two years ago, show that he can score at the highest level. One of the most fascinating subplots in Australia's next two Test tours, to Sri Lanka and South Africa, will be whether Hughes can grab his opportunities. If not, he'll be under enormous pressure come the home summer.

Usman Khawaja, 24 (NSW)
A fine young batsman who the selectors want to embrace, Khawaja's main issue is that he doesn't open for New South Wales. But then, Katich wasn't opening for his state when he was thrust into the role in Test cricket in 2008, and nor was Justin Langer when he suddenly became a champion Test opener in 2001. Khawaja's poise was on display in the Sydney Ashes Test when he replaced the injured Ricky Ponting, and with Ponting likely to stay at No.3, Khawaja would need to drop down or move up if he is to keep his place in the side in the immediate future. In 33 first-class games he has made seven hundreds and averages 47.30, and one way or another, he should become a permanent part of the Test team over the next few years.

Shaun Marsh, 27 (WA)
Like Khawaja, Marsh doesn't typically open for his state in the longer format. Unlike Khawaja, his record at first-class level is a fraction disappointing. For a batsman of Marsh's talent, six tons in 60 first-class appearances is below par, although last season he managed one century and three fifties in only four games, his season having been disrupted by injury. In Marsh's favour, he has proven himself capable of performing at international level, and his ODI record is strong. In 2009, the selectors made Watson a Test opener based in part on the fact that he had shown ability against the new ball in one-day internationals. It's not out of the question that Marsh might win a similar vote of confidence.

Nic Maddinson, 19 (NSW)
He might not be ready just yet, but expect Maddinson to put his hand up for higher honours over the next couple of years. In October, he became the youngest New South Wales player to score a century in his first-class debut, and he had added a second ton by the end of the summer. Importantly, both came when he was opening the batting. A highly-talented left-hander, Maddinson could very well become part of Australia's plans for the 2013 Ashes, and if he thrives during this winter's Australia A tour to Zimbabwe, there could even be a call-up sooner rather than later.

Ed Cowan, 28 (Tas)
A solid domestic performer over the past couple of seasons, Cowan opened for Australia A in Hobart last year during England's first warm-up match of the Ashes tour. He made thirties in both innings and finished the Australian summer with a century in Tasmania's Sheffield Shield final victory, which earned him the Man of the Match award. However, he turns 29 next week and is perhaps not the young up-and-comer the selectors want, although if he can manage a huge domestic season in 2011-12, he won't be out of contention.

David Warner, 24 (NSW)
Along with Maddinson, Hughes and Khawaja, Warner is heading to Zimbabwe later this month as part of Australia A's four-day squad. It's a big step forward for a man who had been viewed as a short-format slogger, so much so that he made his Twenty20 international debut before he'd even played a first-class match. He still has only seven first-class appearances to his name, but posted a mature century while opening in the second-last match of the Sheffield Shield season. A year ago, Warner playing Test cricket seemed about as likely as Katich making Australia's Twenty20 team. How times change.

And who won't get the job?

Mark Cosgrove, 26 (Tas): Has time on his side but is unlikely to win a baggy green unless his fitness improves dramatically. Has opened at domestic level and topped the Sheffield Shield run tally last summer.

Michael Klinger, 30 (SA): Realistically, has probably missed his chance. Had two huge summers with South Australia but fell away last season when given the state captaincy.

Phil Jaques, 32 (NSW): The forgotten man. Three hundreds in 11 Tests was a fine record but he has not been the same after a severe back injury, and at 32 his ship has sailed.

Chris Rogers, 33 (Vic): Like Jaques, he has had a taste of Test cricket. But will be 34 in August, and is therefore too old for a selection panel looking to the future.
Source
 

Sudhir

Juniors
Messages
158
As opposed to his replacement who averages a whopping 17.11 against England ...

I don't know why you're arguing with us. We're right.

Who says it has to be Hughes? There are two years until the next Ashes, plenty of time to find an opening partner for Watson.

Maddinson perhaps?

Hughes at least, in defense of his poor record, is still only 22

Katich was shit against England in his 20s and early 30s, so will probably be even more shit at 37
 

Sudhir

Juniors
Messages
158
What we haven't talked about enough is Kat's likely replacement.
Who should replace Kat?
Here's Cricinfo's list of contenders
Source
Interesting list, the cupboard does seem very bare

India on the other hand have at least half a dozen uncapped or rookie openers who would slot into most international teams.
 

Red Bear

Referee
Messages
20,882
Geez, selectors just can't win

They don't drop either of the three batsman aged in their mid 30s and they are accused of hindering Australia's future

They drop Hussey and the non NSW fans will have same reaction, pointing out that he scored 570 runs in the Ashes and is your "form batsman"

They drop Ponting and people will froth at the mouth over an indignified end to your "best batsman since Bradman".
If you read across a variety of message boards, as I do, with opinions from across the country, most a pissed off at this decision, not just NSW fans. Hussey was carried for 2 years, being given every chance to turn it around. Ponting has been shit for some time. He may have been an all time great but he is no longer the same batsmen, and he is still stubbon as a mule. Katich was comfortably the best performed of the older brigade yet got dumped after four poor test matches in which he was not fit at all, following a period of time he got himself as fit as he could (and hit 90odd in a shield final). Go look at the Bigfooty cricket board, made up predominantly of Vics, South Australians and Western Australians and there is similar disgust at the cutting of one of our best performed batsmen, when numerous others have been carried. Ponting, Hussey, then previous to that Hayden (twice), Even arguably Steve Waugh (although his form wasnt as terrible as say Pontings has been).

You talk about his record against England, the 05 series was when everyone bar Langer was well below par, and he got rightly replaced afterwards. the 09 series he hit a ton and averaged 42 or so, hardly terrible. the most recent series he was on one leg the second test (and one of his dismissals was a run out). Not to mention the fact remains that we have three sides ranked above us in hte next 9 months to play test series against, who he has scored good runs against in the past.

And there's a general feel that our side lacks toughness, so we have cut the toughest batsmen in the side. We've also broken the opening partnership when our problems have been through the middle order.

Love you claims of jealousy. There's a lot of us mighty pissed off with how the administration of our national team is running the team at present. There's alot of people pissed off with how the BCCI exerts an untold influence over the game, to the point of getting umpires replaced mid-series due to not liking their decisions, and being the only nation who seems to be able to be exempt from the UDRS. That doesnt mean we are jealous of recent successes of the Indian side, they've waited along time to reach a glory stage and they are doing pretty well on the back of a supurb batting lineup (including VVS, possibly the best bat to watch in world cricket). Between them, the Saffers and Poms there are some good sides around at present. As mentioned, we had a glory period which was brilliant to watch, but it had to end, alot of the frustrations however come with the subsequent management of the team.

As for your assertions that Katich was whinging, rubbish, it was more constructive than that. He was angry, definately, but as an article I posted pointed out it was well controlled, well constructed anger, and he spoke for players as a whole, the issues with the team as a whole, rather than just himself.

This entire decision has, as Katich pointed out, highlighted the issues within Australian cricket that have been waiting to bubble to the surface.
 

Sudhir

Juniors
Messages
158
Yep. 1 name stands out as being not deserved. D.Hussey 35. won't play tests won't be in top 20 in ODI's either
He's 33 but yes, I have no idea why he has got a contract

His recall in the CB Series was because they planned on using him in the World Cup, as he could be used as an extra spinner

He batted just twice and took two wickets in the tournament, not exactly Yuvrajesque

Would have thought that'd be the end of him
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
Yeah. It's strange by all means bring in youth but ODI's is the best place to start them. As such why D.Hussey got a start is beyond me. Katich is still the best test opener barring injuries I can't see Hussey playing.
 

Hallatia

Referee
Messages
26,433
Marsh wants Test opening spot
ESPNcricinfo staff
June 14, 2011
Shaun Marsh, the West Australian batsman, has said he wants to claim the Australian Test opener's berth left vacant by the removal of Simon Katich from Cricket Australia's contracts list.

The man most likely to get the first chance to open alongside Shane Watson is Phil Hughes, who replaced Katich for the final three Tests of the Ashes summer, without success.

He is to tour Zimbabwe with Australia A next month, while Marsh cools his heels after the Indian Premier League.

"I'm sure Phil Hughes will get the first crack. He played in the last Test match in the Ashes, so I'm sure he will get another crack there and try and cement his place," Marsh told AAP.

"But if they wanted me to open, I'm ready. I feel as though my game's at a really good stage now. I've been really consistent over the last few seasons in all formats. If I get the opportunity, I feel as though I'm ready to go.

"I'm pretty versatile in the batting order. I've shown I can open the batting and I can bat down at No.6 as well."

Though he has seldom opened the batting for his state in first-class cricket, 27-year-old Marsh has done the job for Australia at limited overs level, and over the past four summers has slowly improved his Sheffield Shield record, which has lagged well below the level generally required of Test batting aspirants.

Since the 2007-08 season that saw his first elevation to the fringes of the Australian limited overs squad and ensured stop-start Shield appearances since, Marsh has tallied 1,721 domestic first-class runs at an average of 52.15 (as against a career mean of 37.97), generally batting in the top four.

He has also been severely hampered by hamstring injuries during that time, but believes he is now ready.
Source
 

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