Kearney

[Eels Dude]

Just a question as to what you guys think.

SK came into Parra thinking he could bring a Melbourne type style to our side, now obviously with the halves we had last year that failed, and again this year it failed as we have to many off-the-cuff type players i feel.

Now if SK took this style to a team with halves and backs that would suit this style (i think maybe sharks) hard working forwards and solid backs. would he have some more success? i'm not to sure how he would go at another club (and i doubt he will get another gig after parra)

I think you are spot on. Which begs the question why did he recruit to 'off the cuff' halves as you put it if he's not going to play a style which suits their strengths.

 

[lingard]

Just a question as to what you guys think.

SK came into Parra thinking he could bring a Melbourne type style to our side, now obviously with the halves we had last year that failed, and again this year it failed as we have to many off-the-cuff type players i feel.

Now if SK took this style to a team with halves and backs that would suit this style (i think maybe sharks) hard working forwards and solid backs. would he have some more success? i'm not to sure how he would go at another club (and i doubt he will get another gig after parra)

Well, the real answer is: who could say? Maybe. The sharks have a better roster than we do, certainly. It could work. My opinion (and it`s just an opinion and nothing else) is that Kearney isn`t a very good tactitian and also isn`t charismatic enough to be a good coach. I don`t think he would be very successful anywhere.

 

[lingard]

I think you are spot on. Which begs the question why did he recruit to 'off the cuff' halves as you put it if he's not going to play a style which suits their strengths.

Maybe he is trying to fit play around them, but doesn`t know how. Maybe he`s just not a very good coach.

 

[lingard]

Yeah I don't buy the culture BS. They make it sound like it's a virus that you can catch from the change rooms.

You can catch it from this forum if you`re not careful.

 

[Eels Dude]

i wish people would stop comparing NRL football operations to big companies - its totally different and pointless to even mention the 2 together.

yes Kearney is making changes to our development ranks - and yes that will take several years to flow on through to the top grade - but it shouldn't take more than 18 months (I'll even give up to 24 months) to turn a football team .... FACT is we have turned down badly and the prospects aren't panning out to improve within the next 6-12 months really .... at the end of the day, NRL is about winning NRL games - you might do more damage than good if you are prepared to be the joke of the NRL for several years in the hope that one day down the track some 16 year olds will be the cream of the crop AND want to stay at a club that is playing like poo

i think the recruiting chances have already mostly slipped by this year (there's not alot of good cattle left and I don't think hiring someone else now will improve our chances - unless its bennett/bellamy/hasler and they aren't coming), so I would be prepared to give him until the end of this season to at least get things going better - then still have to prove something early next season to even think of an extension

Very well said Strider.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Me too. (Or for the pedants, probably the second as it's impossible for two people to both be first...).

But until such time as SK is manning the wheel effectively, the dwindling amigos are of course entitled to post their views but imo shouldn't put shit on others like they do for holding different views.

But it's okay for you to put shit on us for holding our views?

 

[Eelementary]

i wish people would stop comparing NRL football operations to big companies - its totally different and pointless to even mention the 2 together.

yes Kearney is making changes to our development ranks - and yes that will take several years to flow on through to the top grade - but it shouldn't take more than 18 months (I'll even give up to 24 months) to turn a football team .... FACT is we have turned down badly and the prospects aren't panning out to improve within the next 6-12 months really .... at the end of the day, NRL is about winning NRL games - you might do more damage than good if you are prepared to be the joke of the NRL for several years in the hope that one day down the track some 16 year olds will be the cream of the crop AND want to stay at a club that is playing like poo

i think the recruiting chances have already mostly slipped by this year (there's not alot of good cattle left and I don't think hiring someone else now will improve our chances - unless its bennett/bellamy/hasler and they aren't coming), so I would be prepared to give him until the end of this season to at least get things going better - then still have to prove something early next season to even think of an extension

Fair enough, strides.

But I ask you - are the comparisons between an NRL club and an NFL team valid? How about comparing an NRL club to an EPL club? Both have been done before.

My point is that the NRL is a business, measurable by certain KPIs and whatnot. Most businesses think it good business sense to lay out business plans for the long-term (and short-term) success of their businesses.

No doubt that short-term (ie: winning football games last year and this year) Kearney has failed. But the other part of his job was to set out a (and I know people hate the term, but it's true) long-term, five-year plan to ensure long-term sustainability of the club.

I understand why you and so many others want him gone - I do. I think you're all making good points. All I want to ask is - is firing him now, in the middle of his tenure, going to fix everything? The new coach will need to address these issues all over again, and we need stability.

 

[Eelementary]

The only problem with this 'mentally soft culture' business - is that it`s a myth. In the last 26 years we`ve had how many different coaches? Let`s see: Cronin, Hilditch, Peard, Smith, Hagan, Anderson, Kearney (and a couple of others). And we had Fitzgerald for most of that time and that changed too. Then, of course, the player rotation has been what you would have expected over that length of time (i.e: there`s no-one from the 1986 team still playing for us). So the culture comes from where?
In the time since this club began in 1947, we have enjoyed some periods of being consistently competitive - the second half of the seventies; the eighties up until 1986; and most of the Smith years. Did we have a losing culture in the fifties, and sixties and nineties that needs to be addressed now?
Now, the way I see it, those wanting a 'culture change' and wanting us to become a longstanding competitive side like Melbourne, for instance, are living in dream land. It`s never going to happen. There are only four teams who are consistently able to challenge for the title and could be seen as a realistic chance of taking out the premiership in any given year: Manly, Canterbury, Melbourne and Brisbane. That`s it, folks. The rest of the field has to be content with periodic bursts of success. That`s us. We are lucky we weren`t born North Sydney supporters. (They must have been wondering when their 'culture' was going to change, eh?)
And when Parramatta did achieve some measure of sustained success, what was the common denominator? There were alot of factors involved as there always are: the right young stars coming up at the right time, etc, but the common thing was that on each occasion we had a brilliant coach. Terry Fearnley, Jack Gibson, John Monie, Brian Smith.
It seems fairly obvious to me that if we want sustained success again (and by that I mean say, five years of consistently challenging for the title), we need: 1. A good playing roster, and 2. A very good coach. Right now, we haven`t got either. We don`t need to change a culture, we just need good players and a good coach.

I don't understand how you can say I am happy with mediocrity when I try to discuss Kearney and his tenure rationally, and yet demanding we become a long-term, successful club like the four you mentioned won't happen and is a pipe dream. Is that not accepting mediocrity, too?

I see absolutely no reason why we can't become a club similar to Manly or Melbourne. We have a better junior pool, resources just as good (if not better) and a legion of passionate fans. I demand this. The club deserves this much at least.

 

[Eelementary]

Me too. (Or for the pedants, probably the second as it's impossible for two people to both be first...).

But until such time as SK is manning the wheel effectively, the dwindling amigos are of course entitled to post their views but imo shouldn't put shit on others like they do for holding different views.

I think I've been fairly courteous and rational in all this...I certainly don't blame anyone for disagreeing with me.

 

[The EELiminator]

All I want to ask is - is firing him now, in the middle of his tenure, going to fix everything? The new coach will need to address these issues all over again, and we need stability.

we are already gone for this year nothing will change that but if kearney isnt punted at the end of the year and things don't improve next year we will end up punting him mid season and barring a jt-like run under an acting coach you can put a line through next year as well

 

[Eelementary]

Does your company directly compete with 15 other almost identical companies with almost identical resources, structures, funding, etc, etc? And is your company dependent on the day to day, week to week, morale of the grass roots employees? (In other words, if your company doesn`t do so well one week, does that then affect the morale of the staff to the extent that they might not do so well the next week ....... and eventually find themselves in a rut they can`t get out of? And then a 'losing culture' develops?) In other words, I don`t think it`s a very good analogy.

My company competes directly with six major conglomerates, yes - and we all share similar levels of structures and resources.

My company shut down three stores this year for nothing more than essentially this: they told the staff at one shop they were shutting it down, that store's staff got cranky, sales plummeted and when transferred to different stores, those stores suffered and were eventually closed. The retail industry is a tough business.

If you don't think it's a good analogy, that's fine - I disagree entirely.

 

[Eelementary]

we are already gone for this year nothing will change that but if kearney isnt punted at the end of the year and things don't improve next year we will end up punting him mid season and barring a jt-like run under an acting coach you can put a line through next year as well

You're saying we're screwed either way - bring in Ricky Stuart. Will that fix everything?

 

[strider]

Fair enough, strides.

But I ask you - are the comparisons between an NRL club and an NFL team valid? How about comparing an NRL club to an EPL club? Both have been done before.

My point is that the NRL is a business, measurable by certain KPIs and whatnot. Most businesses think it good business sense to lay out business plans for the long-term (and short-term) success of their businesses.

No doubt that short-term (ie: winning football games last year and this year) Kearney has failed. But the other part of his job was to set out a (and I know people hate the term, but it's true) long-term, five-year plan to ensure long-term sustainability of the club.

I understand why you and so many others want him gone - I do. I think you're all making good points. All I want to ask is - is firing him now, in the middle of his tenure, going to fix everything? The new coach will need to address these issues all over again, and we need stability.

i think its probably more relevant to compare NRL clubs to NFL/EPL clubs, but yeah its probably still off the mark because they are very very different markets .... its OK we've told Ron he's off the mark comparing sacking the eels coach to sacking a NFL coach :lol:

NRL is more and more a business all the time ... but it is fairly unique as a business .... we can probably safely compare it to AFL clubs and maybe A League and NBL (altho that league is dying in the arse)

I don't want him gone today - although if he doesn't improve things soon he should go ... having said that I won't lose any sleep if he gets the boot tomorrow either.

I agree we need stability - but stability doesn't exist when you are under performing and going as poopi as we are .... constant media speculation, disgruntled fans, uneasy players is NOT stable

 

[Eels Dude]

Fair enough, strides.

But I ask you - are the comparisons between an NRL club and an NFL team valid? How about comparing an NRL club to an EPL club? Both have been done before.

My point is that the NRL is a business, measurable by certain KPIs and whatnot. Most businesses think it good business sense to lay out business plans for the long-term (and short-term) success of their businesses.

No doubt that short-term (ie: winning football games last year and this year) Kearney has failed. But the other part of his job was to set out a (and I know people hate the term, but it's true) long-term, five-year plan to ensure long-term sustainability of the club.

I think in regards to a Business analogy, you only have to look at Kearney's comments from yesterday. He has admitted our on field performances are hurting recruitment for next year. That's just the start of it. It's going to affect crowd levels, memberships, sponsorships. It's only going to get worse too. That's all lost revenue looking at the club as a business.

 

[Wise Old Eel]

IMO opinion, all this talk about a losing culture is a furphy & just propaganda - history manipulated to suit those who currently support Kearney or the ones who made the sh!t decision to hire him. Since our club's inception, we have had winning years & years where wins were hard to come by. The winning years for any club come in cycles. Check the history books.

In recent times (1997+), we have only missed the finals on only a handful of occasions. It was a particularly long cycle this time around. IMO, that means we have had a "competitive" culture for a while. We have made 2 GF's in the last 10/11 years. There are many clubs who cannot even boast that. What we have now - since the end of 2010 - is a LOSING culture. Watch the players. They have no idea how to win. You can blame a myriad of factors as to why this is the case but the fact of the matter is that, when all the excuses are cleared away, it all comes down to one man - the coach. The coach oversees the whole show. Stephen Kearney cannot do the job. It is as simple as that. His supporters can paint it any way that they like. It won't change my opinion. IMO, if Kearney were to stay, we would remain the LOSERS we are today. He has started the new cycle. For it to end, he has to go. How can we really be sure things are in place behind the scenes? Does anyone know any details? For all we know, it is all just more propaganda. Be sure about one thing. The head coach is the weak link right now.

For those using Melbourne as an example of longevity, speak to me again when C Smith, B Slater & C Cronk retire. Let's see how "dominant" they are then. Just like Parramatta in the 80's, the planets have to align for it all to come into place. It is VERY difficult to have all the ingredients (including luck) to have success over a number of years. As I said, success comes in cycles. Melbourne's cycle will end & then they, too, will just be "competitive".

We are going through a crappy cycle right now. The length of time it lasts depends greatly on the man with the top coaching role. I hope we chose the next coach very wisely. By the way, I know there will be those out there to rip apart anything I just have said. Do what you like. This is a forum and this is my opinion. Agree, disagree. I don't care.

Go the Eels!

WOE

 

[lingard]

My company competes directly with six major conglomerates, yes - and we all share similar levels of structures and resources.

My company shut down three stores this year for nothing more than essentially this: they told the staff at one shop they were shutting it down, that store's staff got cranky, sales plummeted and when transferred to different stores, those stores suffered and were eventually closed. The retail industry is a tough business.

If you don't think it's a good analogy, that's fine - I disagree entirely.

Fair enough. I know nothing about the retail industry.

 

[lingard]

I don't understand how you can say I am happy with mediocrity when I try to discuss Kearney and his tenure rationally, and yet demanding we become a long-term, successful club like the four you mentioned won't happen and is a pipe dream. Is that not accepting mediocrity, too?

I see absolutely no reason why we can't become a club similar to Manly or Melbourne. We have a better junior pool, resources just as good (if not better) and a legion of passionate fans. I demand this. The club deserves this much at least.

I didn`t say you are happy with mediocrity. I never used the word mediocrity; and I never made any reference to you at all. I never even had you in my mind. I don`t know what you are talking about.
As for the rest of it - I suppose Penrith, West Tigers, South Sydney, St George, Cowboys, Warriors, etc, can`t see any reason why they can`t become the next Melbourne or Brisbane. We can`t all be, though; and I`m just trying to be realistic. If we did though - hey, wouldn`t that be great. But I won`t cry if we only end up about as successful as Easts or the West Tigers - a grand final tilt every four or five years and pretty competitive in between times, would be fine by me.

 

[Eelementary]

I didn`t say you are happy with mediocrity. I never used the word mediocrity; and I never made any reference to you at all. I never even had you in my mind. I don`t know what you are talking about.
As for the rest of it - I suppose Penrith, West Tigers, South Sydney, St George, Cowboys, Warriors, etc, can`t see any reason why they can`t become the next Melbourne or Brisbane. We can`t all be, though; and I`m just trying to be realistic. If we did though - hey, wouldn`t that be great. But I won`t cry if we only end up about as successful as Easts or the West Tigers - a grand final tilt every four or five years and pretty competitive in between times, would be fine by me.

I didn't mean that you said that - I meant "you" as in "one".

You make very good points, lingard. You're a wise man indeed.

I only hope we do become the "new Melbourne" - we sure deserve to be.

 

[lingard]

You're saying we're screwed either way - bring in Ricky Stuart. Will that fix everything?

Kearney, himself, said this week that he is disappointed in the player recruitment, and that it has been made difficult by our position on the competition table. Now, I didn`t make that up. Our coach actually said that, this week. Now, if Kearney can`t get us to perform on the field, AND now is having a lot of trouble attracting players - what the hell is he good for? Bringing in another coach might get us winning a few games, might boost the morale of the players, might get us to a position where we can attract other players. Sticking with Kearney ................ well, what do you think?

Will bringing in another coach fix everything? The answer is ....................................................................................it might.

 

[oldmancraigy]

You're all mediocre and you're all as hopeless as you think Kearney is.

Unless you think Kearney is any good, then you're as hopeless as bartman thinks Kearney is.