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Kearney

Bigfella

Coach
Messages
10,102
Because if you want to dismantle what is there and rebuild it involves a huge amount of change, takes time, and meets with a lot of resistance from people who have believed in and been part of the old ways.

It's been eighteen months. It's not a lot of time. This year's side has two players from last year's backline.

Measuring solely against last year is not exactly objective.

In answer - if there is a long term losing culture - it will require long term and deep seated change.

I don't see why both of those statements are difficult to accept.
We haven't won anything for 26 years. We have been mentally soft even when we had strong rosters in that period. And the second part is surely common sense?
 

strider

Post Whore
Messages
78,988
And Burt contested both bombs they kicked at him in the win over Cronulla. It made a huuuuge difference to the overall game!

But on the whole he just doesn't attempt them if there is the slimmest chance that an opposition player might be in the vicinity. Don't try and defend it or say that it's just like everyone else, because it simply isn't. He'd have to be the worst bomb diffuser in the NRL by a long way.


You can't just blame Burt for that: if I was coach I would've told him that if he doesn't jump, he doesn't play. SK is obviously ok with Burt standing around watching the opposition jump, catch and fall over the line for a try.
Ultimately, if players are doing ridiculously bad things over and over, then either they are being coached to actually DO IT, or the coach doesn't have the manhood to take a stand on the issue.

He f'n dropped it straight into the hands of the opposing winger to score their 2nd (or 1st) try :lol: .... made a big difference

IF him not going for bombs AWAY FROM THE GOALLINE was a problem then I would imagine Kearney would have had no problem dropping him - but he hasn't, so maybe it is actually part of the gameplan??? .... I feel that SK probably discourages going for contested high balls further down field as it risks handing hte ball over to the opposition for another set (and against us, most likely a try)
 

Eelementary

Post Whore
Messages
57,235
you can't be serious ... linking not contesting a few kicks to some deep seated culture :lol:

I wish people would get over this obsession with Burt not going for kicks

fact is, he is no different to other players in the NRL - he goes for them if they are inside the 10m and leaves them outside that - SAME HAPPENS EVERYWHERE IN THE NRL THESE DAYS .... watch some f'n games people!!!

It is a well known and well used strategy to NOT contest the high ball these days unless it is coming down near the goalline .... lots of teams won't contest further out and other players in the parra team won't contest it also ...... infact I'd go so far as to say coaches discourage contesting a bomb if it is not in the danger zone.

Burt contests them in or around the goalline - perhaps he isn't very good at it, but that's a whole different story .... he made a great catch in the early minutes of the dragons game, but conveniently no one mentioned it cos it is cooler to lay shit on him and pretend he never tries t catch anything these days

I wasn't laying shit on him - rather, I was using him as an example. Burt is not responsible for our issues!

I was just trying to say that our "team" is not a team - they're fractured. Comes with losing, I suppose.

I'm not pro or con the players or coach - I'm just pro Parramatta Eels.
 

Eelementary

Post Whore
Messages
57,235
I suppose, in response to Eelementary and Bigfella's posts I would ask this:

IF there is some long term losing culture, that's all well and good to change.
But how come SK has accentuated the losing part to make it worse than it has ever been before?

Mate, my point is this: Kearney was asked to change things at the club. Our on-field performances have gone backwards - of that there is no debate. But he needs to do the other part of his job (which he has started already).

I'm not blaming our senior players - I am using them as merely two examples to stimulate discussion.

I'm as unhappy with Kearney's on-field woes as most. But I'm not sure sacking him will be an instant cure.
 

Eelementary

Post Whore
Messages
57,235
I don't think re-building and/or changing an entire organization can happen as quickly as most would like. I work for a massive company - they're only now seeing the benefits of restructuring that happened SEVEN years ago. Are people up in arms about it? Sure - but the longterm viability outweighed the short term headaches.

I think similar concepts can be applied here - certainly, my company employs more people and makes more revenue than a football club.
 

natheel

Coach
Messages
12,137
Just a question as to what you guys think.

SK came into Parra thinking he could bring a Melbourne type style to our side, now obviously with the halves we had last year that failed, and again this year it failed as we have to many off-the-cuff type players i feel.

Now if SK took this style to a team with halves and backs that would suit this style (i think maybe sharks) hard working forwards and solid backs. would he have some more success? i'm not to sure how he would go at another club (and i doubt he will get another gig after parra)
 

strider

Post Whore
Messages
78,988
i wish people would stop comparing NRL football operations to big companies - its totally different and pointless to even mention the 2 together.

yes Kearney is making changes to our development ranks - and yes that will take several years to flow on through to the top grade - but it shouldn't take more than 18 months (I'll even give up to 24 months) to turn a football team .... FACT is we have turned down badly and the prospects aren't panning out to improve within the next 6-12 months really .... at the end of the day, NRL is about winning NRL games - you might do more damage than good if you are prepared to be the joke of the NRL for several years in the hope that one day down the track some 16 year olds will be the cream of the crop AND want to stay at a club that is playing like poo

i think the recruiting chances have already mostly slipped by this year (there's not alot of good cattle left and I don't think hiring someone else now will improve our chances - unless its bennett/bellamy/hasler and they aren't coming), so I would be prepared to give him until the end of this season to at least get things going better - then still have to prove something early next season to even think of an extension
 
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Maroubra Eel

Coach
Messages
19,044
Kearney has failed and once he gets booted from Parra I don't care what he does. He can become somebody elses problem. With the players he has brought in this season it's really unacceptable to be where we are. He has to go.
 

strider

Post Whore
Messages
78,988
Strides I had to laugh when someone was comparing us to Coles supermarket the other week!

I know - that's what got me started ..... I'm waiting for someone to compare us to Google or maybe Apple would be a better comparison "they once sucked, but stuck with someone who had vision, and look at them now"
 

Gronk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
77,719
Forrest Gump bought shares in Apple.

Stephen Kearney > Forrest Gump

#winning
 

bartman

Immortal
Messages
41,022
Hey maybe we'll be sitting here in a years time, well placed on the table with our new winning culture and SK manning the wheel.

I will be the first to post in their "Deathriders, I told you so" thread. Looking forward to it.
Me too. (Or for the pedants, probably the second as it's impossible for two people to both be first...).

But until such time as SK is manning the wheel effectively, the dwindling amigos are of course entitled to post their views but imo shouldn't put shit on others like they do for holding different views.
 

lingard

Coach
Messages
11,424
Because if you want to dismantle what is there and rebuild it involves a huge amount of change, takes time, and meets with a lot of resistance from people who have believed in and been part of the old ways.

It's been eighteen months. It's not a lot of time. This year's side has two players from last year's backline.

Measuring solely against last year is not exactly objective.

In answer - if there is a long term losing culture - it will require long term and deep seated change.

I don't see why both of those statements are difficult to accept.
We haven't won anything for 26 years. We have been mentally soft even when we had strong rosters in that period. And the second part is surely common sense?


The only problem with this 'mentally soft culture' business - is that it`s a myth. In the last 26 years we`ve had how many different coaches? Let`s see: Cronin, Hilditch, Peard, Smith, Hagan, Anderson, Kearney (and a couple of others). And we had Fitzgerald for most of that time and that changed too. Then, of course, the player rotation has been what you would have expected over that length of time (i.e: there`s no-one from the 1986 team still playing for us). So the culture comes from where?
In the time since this club began in 1947, we have enjoyed some periods of being consistently competitive - the second half of the seventies; the eighties up until 1986; and most of the Smith years. Did we have a losing culture in the fifties, and sixties and nineties that needs to be addressed now?
Now, the way I see it, those wanting a 'culture change' and wanting us to become a longstanding competitive side like Melbourne, for instance, are living in dream land. It`s never going to happen. There are only four teams who are consistently able to challenge for the title and could be seen as a realistic chance of taking out the premiership in any given year: Manly, Canterbury, Melbourne and Brisbane. That`s it, folks. The rest of the field has to be content with periodic bursts of success. That`s us. We are lucky we weren`t born North Sydney supporters. (They must have been wondering when their 'culture' was going to change, eh?)
And when Parramatta did achieve some measure of sustained success, what was the common denominator? There were alot of factors involved as there always are: the right young stars coming up at the right time, etc, but the common thing was that on each occasion we had a brilliant coach. Terry Fearnley, Jack Gibson, John Monie, Brian Smith.
It seems fairly obvious to me that if we want sustained success again (and by that I mean say, five years of consistently challenging for the title), we need: 1. A good playing roster, and 2. A very good coach. Right now, we haven`t got either. We don`t need to change a culture, we just need good players and a good coach.
 
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Gronk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
77,719
Yeah I don't buy the culture BS. They make it sound like it's a virus that you can catch from the change rooms.
 

lingard

Coach
Messages
11,424
I don't think re-building and/or changing an entire organization can happen as quickly as most would like. I work for a massive company - they're only now seeing the benefits of restructuring that happened SEVEN years ago. Are people up in arms about it? Sure - but the longterm viability outweighed the short term headaches.

I think similar concepts can be applied here - certainly, my company employs more people and makes more revenue than a football club.


Does your company directly compete with 15 other almost identical companies with almost identical resources, structures, funding, etc, etc? And is your company dependent on the day to day, week to week, morale of the grass roots employees? (In other words, if your company doesn`t do so well one week, does that then affect the morale of the staff to the extent that they might not do so well the next week ....... and eventually find themselves in a rut they can`t get out of? And then a 'losing culture' develops?) In other words, I don`t think it`s a very good analogy.
 

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