keary a dragon

[giboz71]

He's had an absolute gun team at his disposal yet Roosters have won 2 of their last six semi finals and now 2 from 11 regular season games for 2016 (albeit in a so-called rebuilding year).

I actually think he is an issue and will go the same way as Ricky Stuart.

Straight Shooter

Maybe. Remains to be seen.

Stuarts coaching record was around 65% when he had that gun team with Fittler, Ricketson, Fitzgibbon, Minichello et al. Fell to around 20% at Parra and hovering around 35% at the Raiders.

Adds to the notion that a coach can't do too much when he has a crap team.

 

[FlameThrower]

He's had an absolute gun team at his disposal yet Roosters have won 2 of their last six semi finals and now 2 from 11 regular season games for 2016 (albeit in a so-called rebuilding year).

I actually think he is an issue and will go the same way as Ricky Stuart.

Straight Shooter

I must agree here...even with Ch9 and media urging them on....every excuse under the sun...

 

[Minh]

Maybe. Remains to be seen.

Stuarts coaching record was around 65% when he had that gun team with Fittler, Ricketson, Fitzgibbon, Minichello et al. Fell to around 20% at Parra and hovering around 35% at the Raiders.

Adds to the notion that a coach can't do too much when he has a crap team.

99% of the time it's about the team, not making excuses for Mary because he seems to have enough of them already but we are missing several key forwards and Benji in and out of the team at 60% fitness does not help his cause.....No offense intended against KFFL he's got a good try scoring strike rate and has done ok but for us a player like him is a strike winger whereas he'd struggle to make the starting team in most NRL clubs today. You need the right race horse to win races.

 

[rasaint]

Been saying this for a while. Great players make great coaches.

Gibson, Bennent have won when they have the best cattle and back to the pack when they don't. Watch Cowboys go backwards if no Thurston and Morgan. Robinson the champ of a few years ago was a world beater with SBW etc, now can't coach squat with no Maloney, SBW, Jennings. Flano at sharks get Maloney, Bird, Barba and now Sharks may be able to turn off porch light and Flano best coach since creation.

 

[saints4me]

Been saying this for a while. Great players make great coaches.

Gibson, Bennent have won when they have the best cattle and back to the pack when they don't. Watch Cowboys go backwards if no Thurston and Morgan. Robinson the champ of a few years ago was a world beater with SBW etc, now can't coach squat with no Maloney, SBW, Jennings. Flano at sharks get Maloney, Bird, Barba and now Sharks may be able to turn off porch light and Flano best coach since creation.

+1

 

[Minh]

Been saying this for a while. Great players make great coaches.

Gibson, Bennent have won when they have the best cattle and back to the pack when they don't. Watch Cowboys go backwards if no Thurston and Morgan. Robinson the champ of a few years ago was a world beater with SBW etc, now can't coach squat with no Maloney, SBW, Jennings. Flano at sharks get Maloney, Bird, Barba and now Sharks may be able to turn off porch light and Flano best coach since creation.

Yep, Flanno is now an in demand super coach taking over the reins of Robbo.....:crazy:

 

[grouch]

Been saying this for a while. Great players make great coaches.

Gibson, Bennent have won when they have the best cattle and back to the pack when they don't. Watch Cowboys go backwards if no Thurston and Morgan. Robinson the champ of a few years ago was a world beater with SBW etc, now can't coach squat with no Maloney, SBW, Jennings. Flano at sharks get Maloney, Bird, Barba and now Sharks may be able to turn off porch light and Flano best coach since creation.

Yawnworthy comment. Why have coaches at all then? Just have the CEO sign the players and let the players get the required result.

Maloney was cut loose by the Roosters, Bird is a player many in this very forum claimed "wasn't that special" and Ben Barba was a human-sized pile of dogshit at Brisbane.

 

[Mr Red]

Been saying this for a while. Great players make great coaches.

Gibson, Bennent have won when they have the best cattle and back to the pack when they don't. Watch Cowboys go backwards if no Thurston and Morgan. Robinson the champ of a few years ago was a world beater with SBW etc, now can't coach squat with no Maloney, SBW, Jennings. Flano at sharks get Maloney, Bird, Barba and now Sharks may be able to turn off porch light and Flano best coach since creation.

i would hardly say in 2009/2010 we had the best cattle..
if prior to Bennett you would suggest a team would be as dominant as we were with Hornby and soward as the halves you would have been laughed at...

 

[since77]

i would hardly say in 2009/2010 we had the best cattle..
if prior to Bennett you would suggest a team would be as dominant as we were with Hornby and soward as the halves you would have been laughed at...

Spot on.

The Nathan Brown coached team looked exactly what a team looks like when its players have too much say and influence. No point having good cattle if the coach isn't getting the best out of them.

Bennett himself has said publicly he didn't have the best squad, but he was determined to have the best team. No Bennett, no premiership in my opinion. The change in the team when he took over was instantaneous. No longer did we have a dumb, inconsistent but talented roster, but a team that played to its strengths and away from its weaknesses. .That's what a coach does. He also took a very average Newcastle team to within one game of grand final.That's what a coach does.

Robinson has had the best drilled team for the last 3 years. He can clearly coach and we'd improve instantly if he took over. He lost one of the top 3 fullbacks in the game, a 5/8 and this year had no halfback & no forward pack for 1st nine rounds, and we're surprised they're struggling this year?

 

[giboz71]

I think the point is, you need both. Players and coaches.

Yes a good coach can take a good team to the next level and get them over the hump they could never get over. Bennett did it with us, and Green did it with Cows. But at the end of the day, us in 2010 and the Cows today are inherently good squads littered with internationals. Absolutely, give credit to the coaching for managing the team to win the comp, but let's face it, they had a fair bit to work with. We probably weren't as good as the Cows talent wise but it took the greatest coach in history to finally win a comp for us.

Hence I don't buy the notion that sacking Mary and bringing in a proven coach with this same squad will lead us to the promised land. Yes, we'll be better, but the problems we face today in terms of skill level, lack of speed, lack of fundamentals etc will still be there.

If we appointed Bennett coach tomorrow and he was in charge of assembling our squad, half the guys we have now would be shown the door.

 

[BennyV]

I think the point is, you need both. Players and coaches.

Yes a good coach can take a good team to the next level and get them over the hump they could never get over. Bennett did it with us, and Green did it with Cows. But at the end of the day, us in 2010 and the Cows today are inherently good squads littered with internationals. Absolutely, give credit to the coaching for managing the team to win the comp, but let's face it, they had a fair bit to work with. We probably weren't as good as the Cows talent wise but it took the greatest coach in history to finally win a comp for us.

Hence I don't buy the notion that sacking Mary and bringing in a proven coach with this same squad will lead us to the promised land. Yes, we'll be better, but the problems we face today in terms of skill level, lack of speed, lack of fundamentals etc will still be there.

If we appointed Bennett coach tomorrow and he was in charge of assembling our squad, half the guys we have now would be shown the door.

Which says as much about Mary as it does about the squad anyway!

You're right, ots a balancing act with squad and coach, but its obvious that fixing the coach first goes a lot further towards fixing us. A new coach (a proper, experienced one) will know what direction he wants, what key players to hold, who to turn over, and so on.

The coach may not be the whole solution, but its definitely step 1.

 

[giboz71]

Which says as much about Mary as it does about the squad anyway!

You're right, ots a balancing act with squad and coach, but its obvious that fixing the coach first goes a lot further towards fixing us. A new coach (a proper, experienced one) will know what direction he wants, what key players to hold, who to turn over, and so on.

The coach may not be the whole solution, but its definitely step 1.

Agreed.

It's why I said recruitment more than anything is probably the most important thing. If Mary has the final say in recruitment, then he's failed. Mann and Lafai were our highest profile signings and both have been underwhelming (and thats being kind to Mann).

Compared to the Sharks who in the last 2 years have nabbed, Ennis, Bird, Maloney, Townsend and Barba.

I think this has a lot more to do with their recent success than Flanno and Price suddenly being super coaches.

 

[Slippery Morris]

Coach makes a difference. Great example is Titans. Very well coached side with cattle that is so far below in quality that they were tipped as wooden spooners yet play with heart. They give it all and play well above their abilities. They never give up just as Penrith found out and the Saints did last year. They go to the end and can attack unlike the Saints.

Can't believe Saints did not choose Henry when he was available and went for Mary. A decision they should be regretting.

But in saying that depending on how good the players are they can make a coach look good. Any coach who has Cam Smith, Cronk, Slater, Thurston looks good ask Mal. Hagan was a rubbish coach when he left Knights which had Johns running the show. Hagan gave the Eels there worst season and started the decline after Brian Smith left the Eels. Even Jason Taylor had the Eels playing well. Then Hagan came in and made them rubbish.

Sacking Mary would probably be a huge gamble but at least the new coach will get some better attacking structures going as well as get the best in players like Widdop. Widdop has been given the green light to lead the attack and is clearly useless in that dept. His short kicking game and passing is rubbish. McCrone set up a try against Souths with a great kick and another with a nice pass. McCrone is a reject from Canberra so thaty is saying something. Widdop kicked to the opposition, never found the goalline with a kick and threw an intercept in the end. He also missed gettable goals. What use is he lately? Obviously struggling and needs help yet Mary is leaving him to rot. Needs to change things to help Widdop because WIddop is clueless and has no idea.

 

[Slippery Morris]

Mary has put way to much faith in Widdop than he should be and he is killing him just like Mundine did to David Waite. Mundine carried on like a pork chop and the players clearly could not wait to see the back of him yet Waite let him shoot his mouth and play poorly in the back end of his career at Saints. The same will happen to Mary.

 

[rasaint]

My Great Players make great coaches caused quite a bit of discussion.

May be I was a bit over the top but the broad point I was making is valid I believe.

Say two recognised great coaches Jack Gibson and Wayne Bennett

Jack won 73% of games with the great eels sides of the early 80s. He won 43% of his games with the Sharkies. One season he lost Steve Rogers with broken jaw and publicly lamented that as a huge blow.

Wayne has a win % up at 67% with the great Broncos sides but drops to 45% won with 3 seasons at Newcastle

Craig Bellamy is 66% since 2003 with the Storm. Very commendable.

We missed out on Neil Henry as noted in a post. Wow after coaching many games across 3 clubs 46 % of games won.

Flano sits at about 46% with Sharks. He is going very well this year with the best sharks squad assembled for a decade.

Our own beloved Mary is on 47%, equal with Brad Arthur the other one we missed out on.

IMO all coaches noted above know the game and can coach well. Probably Jack, Wayne and Craig have the edge but boy it helps when a coach has great players. Cheers and go Dragons

 

[TruSaint]

My Great Players make great coaches caused quite a bit of discussion.

May be I was a bit over the top but the broad point I was making is valid I believe.

Say two recognised great coaches Jack Gibson and Wayne Bennett

Jack won 73% of games with the great eels sides of the early 80s. He won 43% of his games with the Sharkies. One season he lost Steve Rogers with broken jaw and publicly lamented that as a huge blow.

Wayne has a win % up at 67% with the great Broncos sides but drops to 45% won with 3 seasons at Newcastle

Craig Bellamy is 66% since 2003 with the Storm. Very commendable.

We missed out on Neil Henry as noted in a post. Wow after coaching many games across 3 clubs 46 % of games won.

Flano sits at about 46% with Sharks. He is going very well this year with the best sharks squad assembled for a decade.

Our own beloved Mary is on 47%, equal with Brad Arthur the other one we missed out on.

IMO all coaches noted above know the game and can coach well. Probably Jack, Wayne and Craig have the edge but boy it helps when a coach has great players. Cheers and go Dragons

Good read..

 

[Minh]

My Great Players make great coaches caused quite a bit of discussion.

May be I was a bit over the top but the broad point I was making is valid I believe.

Say two recognised great coaches Jack Gibson and Wayne Bennett

Jack won 73% of games with the great eels sides of the early 80s. He won 43% of his games with the Sharkies. One season he lost Steve Rogers with broken jaw and publicly lamented that as a huge blow.

Wayne has a win % up at 67% with the great Broncos sides but drops to 45% won with 3 seasons at Newcastle

Craig Bellamy is 66% since 2003 with the Storm. Very commendable.

We missed out on Neil Henry as noted in a post. Wow after coaching many games across 3 clubs 46 % of games won.

Flano sits at about 46% with Sharks. He is going very well this year with the best sharks squad assembled for a decade.

Our own beloved Mary is on 47%, equal with Brad Arthur the other one we missed out on.

IMO all coaches noted above know the game and can coach well. Probably Jack, Wayne and Craig have the edge but boy it helps when a coach has great players. Cheers and go Dragons

Astute call rasaint, I think you've nailed it here....

 

[grouch]

Bennett's final year at Newcastle was a train wreck completely out of his control - players not being paid, the administration falling apart, and Alex McKinnon getting paralysed. The season before he took them 1 game away from a grand final, which they lost to the premiers. Something McGregor can only dream of at this point.

Gibson was at the twilight of his career at Cronulla, and as you mention, faced some difficult challenges such as losing Rogers. That said, he still laid the foundations for a reasonably strong couple of years to follow for the Sharks.

Neil Henry also helped build a strong Cowboys club. The team showed improvement, the squad was built and nurtured , and were undoubtedly ripped off in a couple of finals games. He's showing the hallmarks of "improvement" with the Titans. Ditto Flanagan.

McGregor, on the other hand, has taken the squad backwards, and even his strategic additions to the squad have been flops.

 

[Lethal25]

My Great Players make great coaches caused quite a bit of discussion.

May be I was a bit over the top but the broad point I was making is valid I believe.

Say two recognised great coaches Jack Gibson and Wayne Bennett

Jack won 73% of games with the great eels sides of the early 80s. He won 43% of his games with the Sharkies. One season he lost Steve Rogers with broken jaw and publicly lamented that as a huge blow.

Wayne has a win % up at 67% with the great Broncos sides but drops to 45% won with 3 seasons at Newcastle

Craig Bellamy is 66% since 2003 with the Storm. Very commendable.

We missed out on Neil Henry as noted in a post. Wow after coaching many games across 3 clubs 46 % of games won.

Flano sits at about 46% with Sharks. He is going very well this year with the best sharks squad assembled for a decade.

Our own beloved Mary is on 47%, equal with Brad Arthur the other one we missed out on.

IMO all coaches noted above know the game and can coach well. Probably Jack, Wayne and Craig have the edge but boy it helps when a coach has great players. Cheers and go Dragons

IMO the thing that is providing the most discontent is the attack or lack of from this side. We are one of the most ineffective teams ball in hand in recent memory.

If the winning % from Mary was 60% and not 47% then you can mount a strong case to say he's doing a terrific job. At 47% it's finishing between 8th and 10th and doing it in the most boring fashion. It gives the impression of a coach who's afraid to lose rather than a coach chasing victory. It's extremely uninspiring in an environment where there are so many choices as alternatives for young people starting to get into the game. They don't care so much these days about geography and sticking with your local team, they'll flock to teams that entertain and or win.

I'm fighting tooth and nail for my 7 year old boy to be a Dragons supporter and frankly this crap that's been dished up for the last few seasons is making this task very very difficult.

I understand well enough that financially we find it impossible to compete with teams such as the Broncos and Bulldogs at the moment, but please have a go at providing supporters with some entertainment. An 8 - 6 victory doesn't cut it when you lose more than half your games.

 

[TruSaint]

IMO the thing that is providing the most discontent is the attack or lack of from this side. We are one of the most ineffective teams ball in hand in recent memory.

If the winning % from Mary was 60% and not 47% then you can mount a strong case to say he's doing a terrific job. At 47% it's finishing between 8th and 10th and doing it in the most boring fashion. It gives the impression of a coach who's afraid to lose rather than a coach chasing victory. It's extremely uninspiring in an environment where there are so many choices as alternatives for young people starting to get into the game. They don't care so much these days about geography and sticking with your local team, they'll flock to teams that entertain and or win.

I'm fighting tooth and nail for my 7 year old boy to be a Dragons supporter and frankly this crap that's been dished up for the last few seasons is making this task very very difficult.

I understand well enough that financially we find it impossible to compete with teams such as the Broncos and Bulldogs at the moment, but please have a go at providing supporters with some entertainment. An 8 - 6 victory doesn't cut it when you lose more than half your games.

Hard to argue.
He has had enough time.
Consistently referring to our D as our identity, is not reflected on the F and A ladder.