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kris keating future with the eels?

Ron Jeremy

Coach
Messages
25,682
That's not the point though is it Ron?

The point Pete is making - and obviously Craig Johnston missed it because he started this "3-2-1 as voted for by the fans" argument - is that you can't rely on a fan-based 3-2-1 vote to make an argument about who is the best player and therefore who should be in the team.

It's OBVIOUS that KK isn't better than Dan Mortimer, Inu, Reddy etc, so the value of using that system to say who is better is inherently flawed, no matter who you are comparing.

What IFR33K also fails to understand is that the silence was brought about because it was obvious that using the 3-2-1 system was a nonsensical argument, not because the argument was won by that rubbish post.

to me it shows that before he got injured he in the opinion of many was one of our best players, and that he was performing well enough to get plenty of respect from many on here.

As i've said previously, Robson must start, however people are forgetting the impact KK had on a very poorly performing side at the time - he was one shining light.
 

1 Eyed TEZZA

Coach
Messages
12,420
to me it shows that before he got injured he in the opinion of many was one of our best players, and that he was performing well enough to get plenty of respect from many on here.

As i've said previously, Robson must start, however people are forgetting the impact KK had on a very poorly performing side at the time - he was one shining light.

So was Tony Williams in 2008
 

IFR33K

Coach
Messages
17,043
That's not the point though is it Ron?

The point Pete is making - and obviously Craig Johnston missed it because he started this "3-2-1 as voted for by the fans" argument - is that you can't rely on a fan-based 3-2-1 vote to make an argument about who is the best player and therefore who should be in the team.

It's OBVIOUS that KK isn't better than Dan Mortimer, Inu, Reddy etc, so the value of using that system to say who is better is inherently flawed, no matter who you are comparing.

What IFR33K also fails to understand is that the silence was brought about because it was obvious that using the 3-2-1 system was a nonsensical argument, not because the argument was won by that rubbish post.


I think all this thread has produced, is that you fail to interpret things.

KK had polled double the votes of Robson, from less then half the games. Its as clear as daylight.

Robson probably deserves to start, but once KK finds his feet in the top grade, he should get his chance.
 

B-Tron 3000

Juniors
Messages
1,803
Really? Its obvious? are you certain?

yeah fair enough, that was a dumb comment to make.

I was trying to point out that using the 3-2-1 as a system for deciding who to pick in a certain position is flawed, and probably used a bad example, and more to the point a bad turn of phrase, to highlight that.
 

B-Tron 3000

Juniors
Messages
1,803
I think all this thread has produced, is that you fail to interpret things.
No mate, it's the other way round.


eg:
KK had polled double the votes of Robson, from less then half the games. Its as clear as daylight.

:lol:

What have you interpreted here? That KK is a better option than Robson based on garnering a few fan votes at the start of last year? Are you serious?

What's as clear as daylight is that the fans thought that KK was doing well enough to score some points - mainly off the bench - at the start of last season. I can happily agree to that.

BUT THAT DOESN"T MAKE HIM THE BEST MAN FOR THE JOB NOW!!




Flaws of using a 3-2-1 system to value the best player (including the Dally Ms)

* It rewards inconsistent brilliance over consistent dependability
* It doesn't take into account the overall performance of the team
* It doesn't take into account the performance of the opposition
* It doesn't take into account the nature and importance of the game
* It is a relative system that discounts 14/17 (or 31/34) of the values that it needs to be relative towards. A more accurate system would be to score the player out of 10 for their performance, and total those scores - that is an absolute score and more readily judgeable against other player's performances across the scope of the season (or it would be if the system had performance measures for each score out of 10)



Extra flaws of using a fan-voted 3-2-1 competition:

* Fans don't know what the coach asks for
* Fans don't see what the players bring to the team outside of tackles, assists, tries etc. ie the fans can't see the talk, or understand the influence on the team that a player has
* Fans vote on what they see, and therefore lean towards the player who is most visible
* Fans are emotional, and stupid
* Fans are ignorant of tactics


Extra flaws of using this method to compare KK and Robson:

* KK was scoring points at the start of the year - when his inconsistent brilliance was enough to score points because we were absolutely terrible.
* Robson was never going to get points at the end of the year, because Hayne, Fui and Hindy were hogging them. When they weren't scoring points the likes of Grothe, Burt etc were in career best form
* Robson is not the kind of player that fans are going to vote for anyway
* Robson was the perfect foil for the brilliant players on our team at the end of the year, regardless of votes - he did his job in a winning team. Anyone that thinks keating's skill set - no matter how many votes it may get him - is what we need at the moment is delirious




Robson probably deserves to start,
Finally, you're almost correct.

Replace "probably" with "definitely" and you've got it.


but once KK finds his feet in the top grade, he should get his chance.


Again, you're almost there. Your comment should read like this:

"but once KK finds his feet in the top grade, and shows that he can organise and lead a team round the park, and proves that he can play consistently week-in, week-out and give the team the platform that it needs for the likes of Hayne, Mateo and Tahu to fire, and given he can do these things and still produce the odd bit of brilliance that Robson can't, and that moving him to half from back-up hooker/utility won't unbalance the squad, and Robson has been playing badly enough to warrant someone else to take his place, then Keating should get his chance."
 

strider

Post Whore
Messages
79,044
omfg - just agree to disagree

they both have their good and bad points - either could be deserving of the gig
 

BissyB

Juniors
Messages
682
Well in the trial game Robson played verryyy well from hooker and kk played verrryy well in the halves...

So I don't think Robson would look bad at 14.... Though he deserves to start...
 

Maroubra Eel

Coach
Messages
19,044
The voting means nothing. I vote on what's expected of a player. Eg if Hindy makes fifty tackles, it's just expected. But if another forward did it I would give them three points.

Plus you could have five really good games and get points but then have five shockers. Whereas another player might be solid for ten games and not get so many points. So consistency isn't rewarded.
 

JoeyJoJo83

Juniors
Messages
787
IMO KK is a far better player in the 6/7 then Robson, first half of last year he was clearly one of our best players and if he didn't get injured it would have been interesting to see how he went in a team that had go forward. But in saying that Robo has been getting the job done he may not have much in terms of setting plays and kicking game, but what he does really well is his defense and his ability to get the ball to the people that need it (Hayne, Mateo, Morts).

Robson was not the reason why we made the GF but he was part of the team that got us there. Unfortunately for KK he will now have to wait his turn and play the best footy he can play in the position DA gives him, Robo does not deserver to lose his spot just because KK is back Robo has been able to hold his own. The only way I can see KK getting into the 6/7 is if we hit a real bad patch of form and DA has to make changes.

The best thing in all of this is each player has to play their best footy no one can afford to get lazy as we have player fighting for a first grade spot.
 
Messages
17,663
It's KK for me...... Robson can start off the bench at 14.

Why beat around the bush when we know KK is the future?

Sure Robson deserves a shot since he played very well last year but hard decisions need to be made. KK is the future, he is a better allround player. And we need to keep KK at the club.

I sort of changed my mind.... KK would be a priority signing for Parra infront of Mateo and Mortimer. KK has the attitude of a champion player and has a good football brain to go with it.
 

Delboy

First Grade
Messages
7,651
I posted this last year, Robson will end up at 14 taking Kingstons role. KK will wear the 7 after a few games.

Everyone should be happy as they will both be in the 17. If that changes then DA has found a better alternative.
 

84 Baby

Referee
Messages
29,946
I posted this last year, Robson will end up at 14 taking Kingstons role. KK will wear the 7 after a few games.

Everyone should be happy as they will both be in the 17. If that changes then DA has found a better alternative.
Originally I totally disagreed with you but after seeing Robson's dart out of dummy half in the trial highlights, I wouldn't be surprised if he's the 14. We have to wait and see from the next 2 trials if Anthony Mitchell can stake his claim to it.

The other factor is, and it was really noticeable in the trial, Mortimer appears to be a little underdone at the moment. It's only 1 trial I know, but if that trial was the selection criteria Keating would be 6 and Robson would be 7.

It'll change a thousand times between now and Round 1
 

mickdo

Coach
Messages
17,355
Anyone know if Robson played at hooker for Manly at any stage when he came off the bench? He's not listed as having started at hooker for them.
 

Delboy

First Grade
Messages
7,651
Robson played at hooker for Moanly agst Parra a couple of years ago, think he may have scored against us. But even Kane Cleal did that.
 

IFR33K

Coach
Messages
17,043
No mate, it's the other way round.


eg:

:lol:

What have you interpreted here? That KK is a better option than Robson based on garnering a few fan votes at the start of last year? Are you serious?

What's as clear as daylight is that the fans thought that KK was doing well enough to score some points - mainly off the bench - at the start of last season. I can happily agree to that.

BUT THAT DOESN"T MAKE HIM THE BEST MAN FOR THE JOB NOW!!




Flaws of using a 3-2-1 system to value the best player (including the Dally Ms)

* It rewards inconsistent brilliance over consistent dependability
* It doesn't take into account the overall performance of the team
* It doesn't take into account the performance of the opposition
* It doesn't take into account the nature and importance of the game
* It is a relative system that discounts 14/17 (or 31/34) of the values that it needs to be relative towards. A more accurate system would be to score the player out of 10 for their performance, and total those scores - that is an absolute score and more readily judgeable against other player's performances across the scope of the season (or it would be if the system had performance measures for each score out of 10)



Extra flaws of using a fan-voted 3-2-1 competition:

* Fans don't know what the coach asks for
* Fans don't see what the players bring to the team outside of tackles, assists, tries etc. ie the fans can't see the talk, or understand the influence on the team that a player has
* Fans vote on what they see, and therefore lean towards the player who is most visible
* Fans are emotional, and stupid
* Fans are ignorant of tactics


Extra flaws of using this method to compare KK and Robson:

* KK was scoring points at the start of the year - when his inconsistent brilliance was enough to score points because we were absolutely terrible.
* Robson was never going to get points at the end of the year, because Hayne, Fui and Hindy were hogging them. When they weren't scoring points the likes of Grothe, Burt etc were in career best form
* Robson is not the kind of player that fans are going to vote for anyway
* Robson was the perfect foil for the brilliant players on our team at the end of the year, regardless of votes - he did his job in a winning team. Anyone that thinks keating's skill set - no matter how many votes it may get him - is what we need at the moment is delirious





Finally, you're almost correct.

Replace "probably" with "definitely" and you've got it.





Again, you're almost there. Your comment should read like this:

"but once KK finds his feet in the top grade, and shows that he can organise and lead a team round the park, and proves that he can play consistently week-in, week-out and give the team the platform that it needs for the likes of Hayne, Mateo and Tahu to fire, and given he can do these things and still produce the odd bit of brilliance that Robson can't, and that moving him to half from back-up hooker/utility won't unbalance the squad, and Robson has been playing badly enough to warrant someone else to take his place, then Keating should get his chance."


Mate, Im going to be honest, I didnt read much of your post, for various reasons.

KK was playing in a badly beaten side at the start of the year, and he was the 1 and only shinning light for the Eels. The kid is only 20 or 21, and potentially can be anything. HE has a big future here, if he wants.

Robson, at 27, was the third choice half back, in 2009, for the Eels.

His opportunity came by chance. Although he done a sound job, he didn't set the world on fire. If KK doesn't get injured, then Robson doesn't play first grade. SIMPLE.

Name me 1 team, apart from the Broncos 2006, to win the GF without a dominating Half back.

I aint putting sh*t on Robson, but the guy has no running game or a passing game, and don't let me get started about his kicking game.

For the eels to go 1 better, they gotta have a more 'complete' number 7 calling the shots.
 

BissyB

Juniors
Messages
682
I aint putting sh*t on Robson, but the guy has no running game or a passing game, and don't let me get started about his kicking game.

For the eels to go 1 better, they gotta have a more 'complete' number 7 calling the shots.

I used to think the same thing. Then I watched a youtube video in the morning highlighting our 'fairy tale' run of 7 games. I watched closely, and most of our tries somehow involves Robson, either with a good pass or a good offload. True, he doesnt have a good kicking game, but we have Hayne Morts and even MK and Mateo for that. He could develop a kicking game in time though. I have also noticed his support play is good. Every time there is a line break he is there.

TBH, I think KK will play 14, and people are right, the 7 is Robsons too lose. Even if he doesnt play great, as long as the Eels win games, he will play at 7.
 
Last edited:

lucablight

First Grade
Messages
6,553
How are Cronk and Sherwin not dominating halfbacks? Sherwins kicking game at the time rivaled Johns' and Cronk has played for Australia.
 

lingard

Coach
Messages
11,439
It's KK for me...... Robson can start off the bench at 14.

Why beat around the bush when we know KK is the future?

Sure Robson deserves a shot since he played very well last year but hard decisions need to be made. KK is the future, he is a better allround player. And we need to keep KK at the club.

I sort of changed my mind.... KK would be a priority signing for Parra infront of Mateo and Mortimer. KK has the attitude of a champion player and has a good football brain to go with it.

Well, Robson is only 27, and might have a longer than average life-span because he hasn`t been playing in the ferocious battleground of first-grade for all those years.
I don`t think yoiu can fault Robson`s attitude. Seems like the attitude of a champion player to me.
I`m sorry, but I`ve seen no evidence of Kris Keating`s 'football brain' as yet. Seems a little erratic to me.
 

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