Lowes view on Yawnion

[shiznit]

Graham Lowe is a good league journo most of the time. and thats when hes actually doing what hes paid to do and talk league.

he really does ruin his credibility as a journo when he starts talking about Rugby. in a country where league gets bugger all coverage as it is he uses his weekly spot in the national newspaper to talk about rugby. when the NRL finals are gloriously upon us ,the bartercard cup has its grand final coming up and the kiwis are getting ready to defend the tri-nations. even the biggest rugby hater has to admit the guy has a responsibility to promote his own code before taking a swipe at rugby. what makes it worse even still.... his readers are about as rugby biast as you can get. so hes pretty much preaching christianity in a mosque. so pretty much the guy has wasted a great opportunity to premote rugby league.

as for his article... its not too bad. ofcourse hes talking about a different sport so the argument about stats isnt really right. look at a guy like richie mccaw, he would make maybe 10-15 tackles in a game. which isnt much in league but in rugby thats alot. in league you make a tackle, lie on the tackled player to let yout players get back 10 and get up and go into marker. openside flankers like mccaw or george smith needs to make the tackle and get to his feet, and then compete for the ball. all while getting pounded by big forwards trying drive over you. an then.... if you fall on the wrong side of the ruck you get trampled on by 120kg monsters. and in mccaws case you have the danger of phill waugh who gives you a swinging arm in the face when your the tackler...or you have lote tuqiri dropping you on your head. lowie didnt mention any of that though... theyres more to sport then just numbers..

theyre 2 diffrent sports... and i love them both. im your average kiwi living in NZ who doesnt get to watch much league because we live out of auckland, but i am a diehard parra fan and watch everygame each week live on TV.

the sooner lowie figures out the more he starts bagging union the harder it will be to get your average union fan to follow both codes. theres room for both.

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

LMAO youve got to be joking Dan Carter is easily at Least Johns equal

Did I stutter?

There isn't a Union player on the planet that comes close to Andrew Johns.

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

I'd suggest you watch more closely then - because Carter can do everything... 2nd only to Johns IMO

Carter plays Union. Therefore he plays regularly against 2nd rate Rugby players.

Comparing Carter to Johns is like comparing Vijay Singh playing in Europe to Tiger Woods playing in majors.

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

well, Carter can tackle so that puts him ahead of Locky

again, perhaps you lot should watch Carter sometime... FFS, nuffy union players like Price, Gourley, Stuart, and even O'Connor made great league players... Carter is an absolute superstar... Tim smith - pffffftt

There is one current Union player who would do well in League, one and only one.

Lote Tuquiri.

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

BTW, where is Carter a superstar?

New Zealand?

 

[retard]

There is one current Union player who would do well in League, one and only one.

Lote Tuquiri.

Utter rubbish,

Oh my Milton Thaidays.

Dan Carter and Ritchie McCaw are only behind Lockyeer and Johns as most effective performers in either code. Oh and they are much younger btw.

Carter's passing game in top class Kurt Angle, i would expect better from you.

 

[JJ]

Carter plays Union. Therefore he plays regularly against 2nd rate Rugby players.

In NZ, RSA, France, and even England it's not the second-rate footballers that play union - they play league - again, if you remove your head from your arse, you notice that - it's why the All Blacks are great, and the Kiwis sh*te

As for your comment about union players... FFS - if Carter decided he wanted to play league, every NRL club and every club in England would be clambering over each other to get him.

There's also Tana Umaga, who was in the junior kiwis with Ruben Wiki - and I believe more highly rated. Piri Weepu is also someone with a league background - and he can pass ok, Kelleher would do all right too, and so would Marshall (as a hooker) :roll: - FFS remember Ricky Stuart - second rate union scrum half whose passing game went ok in league...

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

Utter rubbish,

Wait, let me re-phrase it then, I obviously said it incorrectly.

Let me think....

There is one current Union player who would do well in League, one and only one.

Lote Tuquiri.

Hang on, it seems I got it right.

Oh my Milton Thaidays.

I laughed so much my Elsoms hurt.

Dan Carter and Ritchie McCaw are only behind Lockyeer and Johns as most effective performers in either code. Oh and they are much younger btw.

They're behind plenty, because they play Union.

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

In NZ, RSA, France, and even England it's not the second-rate footballers that play union - they play league - again, if you remove your head from your arse, you notice that - it's why the All Blacks are great, and the Kiwis sh*te

You mean the Kiwis who beat the Kangaroos in the last Tri-series?

They'd beat the best Union has like they were 20 cent pack mules. SBW and Benji would carve them up like.

As for your comment about union players... FFS - if Carter decided he wanted to play league, every NRL club and every club in England would be clambering over each other to get him.

He was brought up on Union, he wouldn't change and I wouldn't expect him to think about it.

Good thing too, I'd hate for a world-famous player:lol: like him to be shown up as a hack in the NRL.

There's also Tana Umaga, who was in the junior kiwis with Ruben Wiki - and I believe more highly rated. Piri Weepu is also someone with a league background - and he can pass ok, Kelleher would do all right too, and so would Marshall (as a hooker) :roll: - FFS remember Ricky Stuart - second rate union scrum half whose passing game went ok in league...

Ricky Stuart ?

What decade are we in?

If I get itchy Umangas, I scratch them.

There's one player cuurently in Union who could play the NRL season in 2007 and rep in Origin.

And that player is Lote Tuquiri.

The rest would need 2 - 3 years to get the crap out of them before they'd be anything worthwhile. It's why League doesn't chase Union players any more.

I've asked the following questions a couple of times, see if you can answer it.

The last bloke to move from League to Union in Australia and rep in their first year was?

The last bloke to move from Union to League and rep in Australia in their first year was?

 

[Green Machine]

FFS remember Ricky Stuart - second rate union scrum half whose passing game went ok in league...

That is a big call. Ricky Stuart had a couple of years in senior Union out of school and became a Wallaby at 20, whilst waiting for a spot at the Raiders. If Ricky was so bad as a 20 year old Union player, what does that say for all the other established Union players at the time,

 

[Thomas]

Ricky was a promising young union player. He wasn't a second rate scrum-half at all.

The only problem was the the current Wallaby captain was also the incumbant half-back. That also helped his decision to move.

If Nick Farr-Jones' parents hadn't gotten drunk on Pimms a few decades earlier and shagged......I have no doubt Ricky would have been a Wallaby for a long long time.

 

[Green Machine]

Ricky was a promising young union player. He wasn't a second rate scrum-half at all.

The only problem was the the current Wallaby captain was also the incumbant half-back. That also helped his decision to move.

If Nick Farr-Jones' parents hadn't gotten drunk on Pimms a few decades earlier and shagged......I have no doubt Ricky would have been a Wallaby for a long long time.

Don’t talk sh*t Thomas. He was always going back to the Raiders

 

[JJ]

sorry, bit of arrogance on my behalf - - by Australian standards Ricky wasn't a second rate halfback - although, clearly he was never even second choice...

My point remains - the likes of Price, Gourley, Stuart, O'Coonor, Ridge, Innes - all made fairly handy league players - to suggest that there's nobody outside opf a former NRL player in league who could hack the NRL is stupid. Ridge too no time to adjust, and he was very much a 2nd rate fullback in All Black terms - yet he went on to be a very important part of a great Manly team... funny that

Craig Innes was also never the All Black's first choice at centre, yet he quickly became one tof the best centres in league... funny

Scott Gourley was a complete nuffy (as admittedly are most Wallably forwards), yet low and behold a great success in league...

 

[Green Machine]

sorry, bit of arrogance on my behalf - - by Australian standards Ricky wasn't a second rate halfback - although, clearly he was never even second choice...

Ricky Stuart didn’t stay around long enough to find out. Brian Smith was the second choice halfback behind Nick Farr Jones. When Allan Jones got rid of Gary Freeman as first grade halfback at the Tigers, we saw how good the second choice Wallaby and first choice Irish halfback was,

My point remains - the likes of Price, Gourley, Stuart, O'Coonor, Ridge, Innes - all made fairly handy league players - to suggest that there's nobody outside opf a former NRL player in league who could hack the NRL is stupid.

A few Wallabies could adjust, but not many. Not many Wallabies who signed with Rugby League clubs went to making the Kangaroos.

Ridge too no time to adjust, and he was very much a 2nd rate fullback in All Black terms - yet he went on to be a very important part of a great Manly team... funny that

Didn’t Ridge represent the All Blacks before signing with Manly? Was every other Union fullback in New Zealand’s NPC second rate?

Craig Innes was also never the All Black's first choice at centre, yet he quickly became one tof the best centres in league... funny

Innes took a long time to adjust. His time at Manly was first rate, but his previous seasons at Leeds and the Western Reds very were ordinary

Scott Gourley was a complete nuffy (as admittedly are most Wallably forwards), yet low and behold a great success in league...

Scott Gourley played 18's Rugby League for the Narrabri Blues before playing grade Union in Sydney. Scott was never considered for a Kangaroo Test team against the Kiwis or Lions. I think he went on one of those end of season trips to PNG. I can't remember him displacing anyone from State of Origin when all players were considered. Scott was Test Union starter against the British Lions in Union,

 

[JJ]

Didn’t Ridge represent the All Blacks before signing with Manly? Was every other Union fullback in New Zealand’s NPC second rate?

Ridge went on one tour, and I don't think he played a test - he probably would have if he'd stuck around, but he's no Christian Cullen...

Yes, a number of rah-rahs didn't work out in league, but a number were great (Price, Stuart, Gourley, Ridge, Innes, O'Connor etc)

Bear in mind that aside from Tuqiri and Jason Robinson - most of the leaguies that have gone the other way in recent years have hardly been superstars (Rogers, Sailor [who's viewed as an on and off-field joke in NZ - he's slow, and one-dimensional - yet was a great league winger], Andy Farrell, henry Paul...)

It goes both ways - my point remains that someone like Carter is a terrific athelete, with terrific skills, and a terrific temperament - he would make it in either code

 

[Green Machine]

Ridge went on one tour, and I don't think he played a test - he probably would have if he'd stuck around, but he's no Christian Cullen...

Yes, a number of rah-rahs didn't work out in league, but a number were great (Price, Stuart, Gourley, Ridge, Innes, O'Connor etc)

Great is sometimes over used statement. Ray Price was great. I would nearly have to go back to John Bass when I think of former great Union players making to the top in Rugby League. I would never rate Scott Gourley great. He was club standard footballer. Michael O’Connor was a very good centre but he could never displace players like Gene Miles or Brett Kenny from the Test starting positions. O’Connor could only make the wing for the Kangaroos. Ricky Stuart is from a Rugby League family and played rep grades for the Raiders. He played junior Rugby League for the Queanbeyan Blues. I can only remember Craig Innes having two good years at Manly which a little short of the great standard. The old Sydney competition and then the Winfield Cup was littered with great Wallaby players who struggled at first grade level.

Bear in mind that aside from Tuqiri and Jason Robinson - most of the leaguies that have gone the other way in recent years have hardly been superstars (Rogers, Sailor [who's viewed as an on and off-field joke in NZ - he's slow, and one-dimensional - yet was a great league winger], Andy Farrell, henry Paul...)

The current Waratahs coach does not agree with you on Sailor. Earlier this season, I heard Peter FitzSimons wax lyrical on “The Back Page” on what a super talent Rogers is. If all these ex League players are so ordinary, why do they get picked in National teams all around the world?

I read a big headline the other day where Andy Farrell scored his first try in his first Rugby Union game.

It goes both ways - my point remains that someone like Carter is a terrific athelete, with terrific skills, and a terrific temperament - he would make it in either code

The only thing I know about Dan Carter is hearing Kiwis say; ”Dan Carter, he’s awesome, eh”
I can’t remember in the last 30 years any Wallaby walking into the starting Australian Rugby League team. It is amazing the amount of Rugby League players who have walked into national Union teams and then be declared average.

 

[JJ]

The only thing I know about Dan Carter is hearing Kiwis say; ”Dan Carter, he’s awesome, eh”
I can’t remember in the last 30 years any Wallaby walking into the starting Australian Rugby League team. It is amazing the amount of Rugby League players who have walked into national Union teams and then be declared average.

I agree with you on the great thing - but all of the players I mentioned were succesful in league - Price is a great, and O'Connor must be close.

As for astounding numbers of league players walking into national rugby teams - could you name a few outside of Australia?? Brad Thorn is the only example here, and he wasn't a huge success.

Sailor has been targetted by NZ teams, and no doubt Rogers is talented, but something breaks every time he plays.

What it comes down to is in terms of the talented atheletes, league is dominant in Aust, but union is in NZ... if anyone seriously thinks the likes of Cullen, Muliaina, Umaga, Carter, Rokocoko, Howlett, Sivavatu, Collins, Lauaki etc couldn't make the transition (or in Cullen's case, in past tense), they are kidding themselves.

It's funny, because with kiwis, I am usually taking the opposite stance, as they arrogantly proclaim the superiority of rah-rahs... but Aussies have the opposite attitude - to me the truth is somewhere between, there is an elite group in both sports...

Your most talented kids (aside from those in private schools) play

 

[salivor]

On the Ridge and Sailor calls:
Ridge had a few good seasons at Manly but had a woeful injury and stupidity plagued time at the Warriors. And I wouldn't call him great as I'd rate him behind the likes of Lockyer, Mullins and Brasher when comparing him to the other fullbacks of his generation.

Sailor peaked in 2000, it was always going to be all downhill after that and I said so at the time he signed with union that they'd never see the best of him, his last year in league which was 2001 was pretty bloody average and he's continued that downhill trend with union. The Sailor who dominated league in his prime would've rivaled Jonah Lomu if he'd made the switch maybe 3 years earlier.

 

[Green Machine]

I agree with you on the great thing - but all of the players I mentioned were succesful in league - Price is a great, and O'Connor must be close.

As for astounding numbers of league players walking into national rugby teams - could you name a few outside of Australia?? Brad Thorn is the only example here, and he wasn't a huge success.

Besides Andy Farrell being drafted into the England squad
Brad Thorn for the All Blacks
Iestyn Harris for Wales
Henry Paul for England
Jason Robinson for England
Ben MacDougall for Scotland
Wendell Sailor for the Wallabies
Andrew Walker for the Wallabies
Lote Tuqiri for the Wallabies
Matt Rogers for the Wallabies
Johnathon Davies went straight back into the Welsh team from Warrington

Here is an interesting piece about the 1997 Lions Tour:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/scrumv/features/lions/lions_1997.shtml

Another new element was the returning rugby league players, six of them in all - Allan Bateman, Scott Gibbs, John Bentley, Alan Tait, Dai Young and Scott Quinnell. The four backs would all go on to win test spots. Scott Gibbs was perhaps the best player of the tour for his confrontational approach, physical presence and devastating tackling. He was famously described by Jeremy Guscott as 'the fastest prop I've ever seen!'

John Bentley was a very average winger

Sailor has been targetted by NZ teams, and no doubt Rogers is talented, but something breaks every time he plays.

What it comes down to is in terms of the talented atheletes, league is dominant in Aust, but union is in NZ... if anyone seriously thinks the likes of Cullen, Muliaina, Umaga, Carter, Rokocoko, Howlett, Sivavatu, Collins, Lauaki etc couldn't make the transition (or in Cullen's case, in past tense), they are kidding themselves.

It is hard to say. John Gallagher was very average with Leeds. John Timu had his moments at the Bulldogs. John Schuster was OK at the Knights and Halifax, but not outstanding. Frano Botia did not set the world on fire at the Warriors but was very good at Wigan. Va'iga Tuigamala took a while to settle into Rugby League but became outstanding for Wigan. In the 70’s, Penrith signed a guy call Kent Lambert. I don't know if he every played a game,

It's funny, because with kiwis, I am usually taking the opposite stance, as they arrogantly proclaim the superiority of rah-rahs... but Aussies have the opposite attitude - to me the truth is somewhere between, there is an elite group in both sports...

Maybe because Union is the national sport of New Zealand. There are lot of tallented rugby (union and league) players in New Zealand

Your most talented kids (aside from those in private schools) play

There are not many talented kids in GPS schools in Australia

 

[Thomas]

There are not many talented kids in GPS schools in Australia

No.


None at all.


:roll: