Lowes view on Yawnion

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

this is a bit boring, and obviously very few of you know sh*t about rugby.

I know a fair bit about Rugby, Rugby League. I followed Rugby Union, along with Rugby League, in the 1970's, when it last had something to offer.

First, many more tests are played these days, so Mark Ella has nothing to do with it.

Second, the All Blacks are quite different to the Wallabies, given the puddle of union talent in Australia - the NZRU does not target league players, Henry Paul tried to prostitue himself, and they told him to f**k off

What are you on about?

The ARU targets League players because League is the dominant code in Australia and there are 16 professional teams as against 4 professional Union teams.

There is 1 professional League side in NZ and how many professional Union sides?

people like Gibbs, Bateman, Davies, and Quinnell have been cited, yet they were all union players to start with.

Who?

The likes of Tuigamala, Ridge, Innes, Timu, Davies, Gibbs, Quinnell, Bateman, O'Connor, Botica, Price, Sherlock, Stuart, Gourley, Lambert, Halligan, Gavin Hill (very much a journmeyman union man, but a league international) etc etc all careved out quite respectable careers in league

NZ'ers....

and if we're talking about converts becoming fixtures at the hoghest level, - then Ridge,.Davies, Gibbs, O'Connor, Price, Stuart all did that

How many of those Australians played Origin or Tests in their first season?

And don't waffle on about sheep-shaggers, most of the time it's harder to get out of the Kiwi side than in. It's to do with the fact that there's only one professional League side in NZ.

Since your quoting minnow rugby teams (yes, given the lack of depth, Aust are quite diff to NZ) the likes of Ridge, Davies, Timu, Ellis :lol:, Botica, Tuigamala, Schuster Hill all had opportunities in the Kiwis very early.

Australia is quite different to NZ?

Really?

Well, first of all we eat Lamb so you may have something there.

Halligan and Hill were very much journeyman union players in NZ, and both did well at the dogs, and of course Halligan set some impressive records. Ridge and Sherlock were fortunate to get All Black games (perhaps the equivalent of Phil Bailey in league) and Ridge didn;t play a test...

Halliga, as mentioned by Ibeme, was a good goal-kicker and nothing more.

None of Tuqiri, Rogers or Sailor are anywhere near the best in their positions in rugby union, irrespective of how many tests they've played for the Wallabies - the AB's outside backs - Rokocoko, Sivivatu, Howlett, Gear and Muliaina are hugley superior - the Titans would have been much better spending 300K on Muliaina - who is young, and incredibly talents, and doesn;t have games off due to papercuts

Tuquiri, Rogers and Sailor would be lucky to see the ball 1/2 a dozen times per game in Union in a position where they can use their skill.

The other blokes you mentioned would get killed in the NRL. Hell, they play 20 games of Union a season and they're whining about it and threatening to drop out of S14. And Union is so much slower it's bizarre to think the two games evolved from the same game.

They would get killed in the NRL. 26 hard matches, week-in, week-out, they'd have to have body bags ready by round 8.

 

[Green Machine]

this is a bit boring, and obviously very few of you know sh*t about rugby.

This will be good!

First, many more tests are played these days, so Mark Ella has nothing to do with it.

Yes it does. If all the Rugby League converts were not up to union’s international standard, they all should be up to zero Union caps, instead of 41 & 37 at the end of their Union career,

Second, the All Blacks are quite different to the Wallabies, given the puddle of union talent in Australia - the NZRU does not target league players, Henry Paul tried to prostitue himself, and they told him to f**k off

Who told Henry Paul to f**koff? I thought Henry Paul was recruited by England RU? Did England RU pay him to convert to Union or did he do it for nothing?

people like Gibbs, Bateman, Davies, and Quinnell have been cited, yet they were all union players to start with.

You are really starting to make yourself look silly. Did anyone say they weren’t Union players to start with?

The likes of Tuigamala, Ridge, Innes, Timu, Davies, Gibbs, Quinnell, Bateman, O'Connor, Botica, Price, Sherlock, Stuart, Gourley, Lambert, Halligan, Gavin Hill (very much a journmeyman union man, but a league international) etc etc all careved out quite respectable careers in league

So, you have Stuart back as a convert again?
Gavin Hill? I think he had two years at the dogs? Halligan? North Sydney got rid of him and the dogs hide in the backs for goal kicking.
Lambert carved out quite respectable career in league?

http://stats.allblacks.com/Profile.asp?ABID=481

Unable to afford time off work Kent was unavailable for the tour to France and it was a shock to the rugby world when, in December, the 25 year old signed a 3 year contract with the Penrith Rugby League Club in Sydney. Sadly, his league career was severely restricted by injury and he returned, late 1979, to run the Waitara Hotel before he and his wife Lesley took over as proprietors of the Carlton Hotel, in November 1984. He is currently (2003) proprietor of the Commercial Hotel, Waipawa and is assiting with the Te Aute College First XV..

and if we're talking about converts becoming fixtures at the hoghest level, - then Ridge,.Davies, Gibbs, O'Connor, Price, Stuart all did that

So what?

Since your quoting minnow rugby teams (yes, given the lack of depth, Aust are quite diff to NZ) the likes of Ridge, Davies, Timu, Ellis :lol:, Botica, Tuigamala, Schuster Hill all had opportunities in the Kiwis very early.

Why is Marc Ellis so funny? Didn’t he play 8 tests for the All Blacks?

Halligan and Hill were very much journeyman union players in NZ, and both did well at the dogs, and of course Halligan set some impressive records.

Besides goal kicking? Halligan's nickname was the rock and it wasn't because he was solid.

Ridge and Sherlock were fortunate to get All Black games (perhaps the equivalent of Phil Bailey in league) and Ridge didn;t play a test...

Phil Bailey only played for Australia because of injures and Chris Anderson selecting him.
Seem pretty tough on Matthew Ridge. This is what allblacks.com thinks of Ridge:

http://stats.allblacks.com/Profile.asp?ABID=733

As an aside, it's interesting to note that Ridge did seem to mature more quickly than some of the other new boys - but only because his age was overstated, almost religiously, throughout his career. His official stats show him as being 21, whereas he was only a few weeks past his 20th birthday. Very young or very old rugby players, like women of all ages, seem to have trouble counting candles.

Counting problems or not, he could still play, and was looking good as the 1990 season kicked off. The trouble was that Gallagher looked every bit as polished as he had done for the previous three seasons and had just been named world player of the year for 1989. There didn't seem to be a vacancy at the back, and nor was one likely for years. So when Lowe came calling, Ridge was interested. Within a week of signing, he must have wondered if he'd done the right thing. Gallagher dropped a bombshell of Hiroshima proportions by announcing that Leeds had won his wallet with a million-dollar sweetener. From having two good fullbacks available 10 days before, the cupboard was now looking pretty bare.

None of Tuqiri, Rogers or Sailor are anywhere near the best in their positions in rugby union, irrespective of how many tests they've played for the Wallabies - the AB's outside backs - Rokocoko, Sivivatu, Howlett, Gear and Muliaina are hugley superior - the Titans would have been much better spending 300K on Muliaina - who is young, and incredibly talents, and doesn;t have games off due to papercuts

Opinions are like arseholes and everyone has got one.

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

I was surprised that Jarrod Anderson didn't get a Kangaroo jersey when Anderson was coach.

 

[Auckland4ever]

I posted Lowes article 6 days ago and still no reply from either the aru or nzru or any of their lacky scribes. I can only assume they agree:

Why would any of them care about Lowes article, the NZRU at the very least?
What was it supposed to do?

 

[retard]

Just shows your ignorance.

The fact you don't know who Bateman, Quinell and Gibbs are again shows your ignorance.

I'll tell you right now as someone who watches both codes. Tuquri would be the only player that would get near to a world 15 team. Rodgers and Sailor wouldn't feature. Tuqiri would still be behind the Rok, Heymans, Sivivatu, Habana and an inform CauCau. Thats 5 players ahead of him.

 

[JJ]

I
The ARU targets League players because League is the dominant code in Australia and there are 16 professional teams as against 4 professional Union teams.

yes, hence drawing parrallels between the Roos and the Wallabies (in terms of securing places immediately) is stupid = thye Wllabies have no depth,l and historically and currently have been poor to mediocre, with a couple of high points. All Black and Roos, Kiwis and Wallabies are better comparisons, and as you highlight a # of league nplayers have quickly become Wallabies, and a # of union players have quickly become Kiwis

The NZRFU were not interested in Henry Paul was my point there - he was asking big money, and the NZRFU were not interested

 

[JJ]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/author/index.cfm?a_id=218

Since so many of you think Lowie's a combination of Einstein, Plato and Socrates - I invite you to read more of his drivel

Some of you will no doubt find his comments and shared experiences of erectile dysfunction quite moving and motivating... but some of you seem aroused just reading his musings...

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

Just shows your ignorance.

Firstly, don't show yours. Learn how to quote before you post next time.

The fact you don't know who Bateman, Quinell and Gibbs are again shows your ignorance.

No, it shows honesty.

Do you actually think that I couldn't have just stuck those names into google to find out about them if I had felt the need to?

I'll tell you right now as someone who watches both codes. Tuquri would be the only player that would get near to a world 15 team. Rodgers and Sailor wouldn't feature. Tuqiri would still be behind the Rok, Heymans, Sivivatu, Habana and an inform CauCau. Thats 5 players ahead of him.

Watching both codes and watching both codes with your eyes open are two different things.

Union is stuck in 1978, it hasn't evolved and that's why Union players who go to League take years to get to NRL level, if they get there at all. It's also the reason why top League players go straight into rep sides. Cross and sh*tcofske haven't played a game of Union yet but they'll go straight into S14 and both will probably go to the RWC.

Put any of the Union players you mentioned in a NRL side and they'd be dead before round 15 if they could get out of Premier League..

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

yes, hence drawing parrallels between the Roos and the Wallabies (in terms of securing places immediately) is stupid = thye Wllabies have no depth,l and historically and currently have been poor to mediocre, with a couple of high points. All Black and Roos, Kiwis and Wallabies are better comparisons, and as you highlight a # of league nplayers have quickly become Wallabies, and a # of union players have quickly become Kiwis

Comparisons between the Roos and the Wannabies are stupid?

They are the top sides in the respective Rugby codes in Australia. Should we compare the Wannabies to the Netball side?

The number of NZ Union players who have quickly become League internationals is for lack of depth.

If they were Australians, most wouldn't have played a Test in League.

The NZRFU were not interested in Henry Paul was my point there - he was asking big money, and the NZRFU were not interested

Who gives a stuff?

That's one player.

Brad Thorn did go to Union in NZ and did play for NZ, relatively quickly. Union is an easy game for League players to excel at because decent NRL players are at levels that Union players just don't get to.

Who was the last All Black to play for the Kangaroos?

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/author/index.cfm?a_id=218

Since so many of you think Lowie's a combination of Einstein, Plato and Socrates - I invite you to read more of his drivel

Some of you will no doubt find his comments and shared experiences of erectile dysfunction quite moving and motivating... but some of you seem aroused just reading his musings...

I'm sure you needed to read that.

You do know that Pele did ads for it........

What Lowe says about Union is spot on. What he says about not being able to get a woody is immaterial with regard to his views on Union.

 

[JJ]

Comparisons between the Roos and the Wannabies are stupid?

They are the top sides in the respective Rugby codes in Australia. Should we compare the Wannabies to the Netball side?

The number of NZ Union players who have quickly become League internationals is for lack of depth.

If they were Australians, most wouldn't have played a Test in League.

Indeed - and that's the point. We have hige depth in union, and you have a huge depth in league. We have no depth in league, and you have no depth in union.

So many league players go straight into the Wallabies, whereas few go straight into the All Blacks. Many union converts go straight into the Kiwis and few go straight into the Kangaroos.

The point you made about the Kiwis not playing tests for the Roos if they were Australian applies equally for the league players that have played for the Wallabies.... None of Tuqiri, Rogers, Sailor, Cross, Walker, or Schif would be regular test players for the All Blacks, and only Tuqiri would get close to the squad, probably the 5th choice wing behind Sivivatu, Rokocok, Howlett and Gear...

 

[Green Machine]

Ricky was a promising young union player. He wasn't a second rate scrum-half at all.

The only problem was the the current Wallaby captain was also the incumbant half-back. That also helped his decision to move.

If Nick Farr-Jones' parents hadn't gotten drunk on Pimms a few decades earlier and shagged......I have no doubt Ricky would have been a Wallaby for a long long time.

There is a bloke over at TotalRL who goes by the name of Alfs Thumb. I think he said once he called himself Alf because he was a big Allan Langer fan.

In 1991, Balmain got former Wallaby coach Allan Jones to coach the first grade team. Allan put Kiwi halfback Gary Freeman in reserves. Allan bragged about how good Brian Smith, 9 cap Irish and 6 cap Wallaby Union halfback was.
http://statistics.scrum.com/rugby_stats_05.asp?ID=ASM5

In 1990, under Warren Ryan, Balmain ran 5th. In 1991, Balmain ran 12th, in 1992 Balmain ran 10th and in 1993, Balmain ran 15th, all three years with Brian Smith as halfback. In 1991, Jones banished Freeman to reserve grade. The next season, Freeman moved to Easts and was awarded the Dally M player of the year in the Winfield Cup:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dally_M_Awards


Which brings me back to Ricky Stuart. As a very young 20 year old, the two halfbacks at the Wallabies in front of him were Nick Farr Jones and Brian Smith. Ricky Stuart chose to rejoin the Canberra Raiders. Over in Rugby League, Ricky Stuart had players of the class of Peter Sterling, Des Hasler, Greg Alexander and a bloke called Allan Langer in front of him.

So, Thomas thinks the fear of not getting over the top of Farr Jones, drove Ricky back to Rugby League. According to Thomas, Ricky chose the much easier path in taking on players the quality of Peter Sterling and Allan Langer.

In this mornings Herald, I found this in Greg Growden’s highly entertaining column:


http://www.rugbyheaven.smh.com.au/news/off-the-field/best-and-worst-of-rollercoaster-season/2006/09/14/1157827092101.html

"I remember when I went across [to league] Campo bagged me for taking the money and leaving. He forgot that he had already asked me to go to Italy that year for more money than what I signed for."
- Ricky Stuart.

So it wasn’t money that forced Ricky back to Rugby League, it was the fear of Nick Farr Jones.

One of your best Thomas!

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

LoL two codes.

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

Indeed - and that's the point. We have hige depth in union, and you have a huge depth in league. We have no depth in league, and you have no depth in union.

I don't suppose you'd care to re-do that, in English this time.

So many league players go straight into the Wallabies, whereas few go straight into the All Blacks. Many union converts go straight into the Kiwis and few go straight into the Kangaroos.

Who was the last Union convert to go straight into the Kiwi League side?

How many players go from League to Union in New Zealand?

The point you made about the Kiwis not playing tests for the Roos if they were Australian applies equally for the league players that have played for the Wallabies.... None of Tuqiri, Rogers, Sailor, Cross, Walker, or Schif would be regular test players for the All Blacks, and only Tuqiri would get close to the squad, probably the 5th choice wing behind Sivivatu, Rokocok, Howlett and Gear...

Nah, that's just your opinion and to be perfectly honest, it's the opinion of a nuffy.

The only facts that back you up are what?

The only player I can recall going from League to the All Blacks is Brad Thorn.

Tuquiri would be a first choice winger in any form of Rugby, period. to suggest otherwise is ludicrous.

I wouldn't swap any of the four you mentioned for any of the Wests Tigers backline, except for Daniel Fitzhenry, you can have him and we'll stick the Union bloke in PL for BRET where he can fight Joel Caine for a spot.

 

[Sanchez]

Lowe seems to be entering the twilight zone with many articles full of comment dribble

 

[JJ]

ITuquiri would be a first choice winger in any form of Rugby, period. to suggest otherwise is ludicrous.

.

Tuquiri isn't close to the best winger in union - to suggest he is is ludicrous

to suggest that some of the All Blacks couldn't play league is ludicrous

can you post without:
1. being both arrogant and ignorant - it's not a good combination
2. resorting to personal abuse - usually that goes hand in hand with having no substance to your argument (in this case you have no argument)

 

[salivor]

2. resorting to personal abuse - usually that goes hand in hand with having no substance to your argument (in this case you have no argument)

How many times now have you told posters to get their heads out of their arses in this debate? That's always a rock solid argument.

 

[JJ]

How many times now have you told posters to get their heads out of their arses in this debate? That's always a rock solid argument.

2 or 3 I reckon - but there's compelling evidence that EA has his head up his arse on this one?

Or do you seriously believe that every All Black is a talentless nuffy - and if that's the case why didn't a Wallaby backline with league superstars tear them to shreds?? They have often had their share of possession...

 

[salivor]

2 or 3 I reckon - but there's compelling evidence that EA has his head up his arse on this one?

Or do you seriously believe that every All Black is a talentless nuffy - and if that's the case why didn't a Wallaby backline with league superstars tear them to shreds?? They have often had their share of possession...

They've got some fast and agile wingers who would go well, particularly with league having a shortage in this area but my argument earlier was that at the very elite level of player, league outshines union incredibly.

When Dan Carter with a few trick kicks in his bag that most league halves these days also have is their best to offer then yes there are doubts. Let's see Carter run a league backline which is far more complex in terms of players in motion and decoys than a union backline. Let's see him function when he's up against a full defensive line and not one where half of the defenders are at the bottom of a ruck. Let's see Dan Carter lift a band of nuffies like Johns has the ability to do.

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

Tuquiri isn't close to the best winger in union - to suggest he is is ludicrous

Who said he was the best?

FFS, read what's written, not what you want to see.

I wouldn't pick Tuqiri in a group 6 reserve grade side, but that's my personal opinion and based on the bloke being a turncoat dog. But he would be first winger picked in any side in either code. You know it and I know it.

to suggest that some of the All Blacks couldn't play league is ludicrous

It's nothing of the sort and its not what was said.

Some would be good after two or three years in Premier League adjusting to League then another season or so on the First Grande bench adjusting to the NRL.

If you threw an All Black, any All black into the NRL now, they'd be dead by round 15. The NRL is so far ahead of anything Union has in terms of fitness, skill and talent required to survive in it, it's laughable to even think of an All Black in it. Sam Harris played League for what, 3 or 4 season, straight from the Wallabies, and at his best he was a bench player for Manly.

Tuquiri, Sailor and Rogers went to Union straight into the Wallabies and even though Sailor struggled initially, they all made a serious fist of it aver 4 or 5 years. Rogers and Tuquiri straight away.

can you post without:
1. being both arrogant and ignorant - it's not a good combination
2. resorting to personal abuse - usually that goes hand in hand with having no substance to your argument (in this case you have no argument)

The argument is simple and unfettered, a bit like the contents of your cranium.

Can you post without;

Being a sook.