Madge The Myth ?

[Vic Mackey]

I do really like Madge, he seems like a really decent person and has proven he is a great coach (Souths 2014), however whatever he is doing at the Tigers isn't working. There's three years worth of evidence to suggest this.

Hypothetically lads - say Madge was to resign at the seasons end (which I agree @Vic Mackey, would be the best outcome for all), who would your suggestion(s) be for coach?

You have to sit and think this one through, however I would love Brad Arthur. He has his critics for not being able to get the Eels up for finals, however at least he gets them there.

You need to remember before he got there the Eels had come 14th, last and last. He had two tough years before they had the salary cap issue where they would have come 7th (?). They then came 4th, last, 5th, 3rd and this year 4th-6th.

He's shown he can build a club and take them in the right direction, theres no doubt they are in much better shape then when he took over. Players seem to like him, they havent lost anyone they wanted to keep (apart from Stefano) and he has been able to add some quality like Ryan Matterson.

I actually think if we approached the Eels and him you could get it done. The Eels are going to crash and burn again this year, their window is nearly shut and they need to do something. He can see the writing on the wall.

Guys like him, Brian Smith and Ivan can take a shit club and make them good, they just can’t get them to the next level. However the level they get you too is miles ahead of where we are atm. Give him a 3 year deal, hope he gets you around the top 4 then bring someone else in to get the job done.

 

[Shredder]

Flannagan, then day light.

 

[Vic Mackey]

Flannagan, then day light.

concern with Flanagan is he brings his son, who makes Luke Brooks look like Andrew Johns

 

[Shredder]

You make a fair point Vic. But his son was playing OK under dad. It was when he left the nest that it went south.

Luke does look like AJ, unfortunately its for a total of about 6 minutes a season.

 

[JB04]

I think Brad Arthur would be terrific, he's turned Parra into a constant top 6 team - something I'd absolutely love at Wests. I actually think Madge would be perfect for Parra too, he has shown he isn't a rebuild type coach but more so one to get you to that next level (if you know what I mean?). Only problem with BA is he'd bring his son Jakob, and they are like the wish.com version of the Cleary's. Flanno would be great too, however he seems to have a fairly tarnished reputation from his Sharks days, although he did an amazing job with Cronulla in 2016. I could cop Jakob or Kyle as a back up half, much more than somebody like Billy Walters or Moses Mbye

 

[Das Hassler]

concern with Flanagan is he brings his son, who makes Luke Brooks look like Andrew Johns

Exactly my concern. ... it would only be a matter of a short time before we had his kid locked in for 3 or 4 years....for that very real reason a big no to Flanno

 

[simmo05]

I do really like Madge, he seems like a really decent person and has proven he is a great coach (Souths 2014), however whatever he is doing at the Tigers isn't working. There's three years worth of evidence to suggest this.

Hypothetically lads - say Madge was to resign at the seasons end (which I agree @Vic Mackey, would be the best outcome for all), who would your suggestion(s) be for coach?

Is brian smith still alive? If so, him

 

[Old Time Tiger]

Wayne Bennett for 1 season as an assistant to Madge.
Bennett used for the one on one chats, the mental thing.

No press conference, he can sit next to Madge in the box, no one else, certainly not the guys that Madge recruited.

 

[stryker]

We need a coach who is not scared to call a merkin who is playing like a merkin, a merkin. Our players are pampered. When they screw up they don’t fear the stick.
Additionally, we need a coach who is tactical in attack and old school in defensive patterns.
He has to be able to not only call out the players when they aren’t trying, but also call out the officials when the rub isn’t going our way consistently.
I like the idea of an ex player who can relate to his troops to be the coach for reasons of respect and empathy.

Time to bring Tooves back into the NRL.
He has a 58% win record as coach, knows how to get to the finals and leads by example.

 

[gordsy]

I can't believe people thought a spine of Gutho Moses Mahoney and the other guy were going to win a comp. Really ?? I would take Brad Arthur for four years as that's how long it will take to get rid of all the shit we have bought get some decent signings in and see some juniors come through.

People may say four years is too long but who is the next great coach, Ivan will won't be welcomed back, Bennett may not be coherent by then, Bellamy will be gone. Hasler is good but not great. That said you only sign Arthur if you can signing a good defensive coach.

Someone like Pay as a assistant to BA would be good. His roster was dog shit but the players all put in for him and went well in defence all things considered.

 

[Wizardman]

I can't believe people thought a spine of Gutho Moses Mahoney and the other guy were going to win a comp. Really ?? I would take Brad Arthur for four years as that's how long it will take to get rid of all the shit we have bought get some decent signings in and see some juniors come through.

People may say four years is too long but who is the next great coach, Ivan will won't be welcomed back, Bennett may not be coherent by then, Bellamy will be gone. Hasler is good but not great. That said you only sign Arthur if you can signing a good defensive coach.

Someone like Pay would be good. His roster was dog shit but the players all put in for him and went well in defence all things considered.

Pay would simply be walking into another dogshit roster...no thanks.

 

[gordsy]

Should have been more clear I would hire Pay as an assistant coach. Was he a shit attacking coach, probably, but the players all put in for him and that is something we sorely lack right now.

 

[Fordy20]

I can't believe people thought a spine of Gutho Moses Mahoney and the other guy were going to win a comp. Really ?? I would take Brad Arthur for four years as that's how long it will take to get rid of all the shit we have bought get some decent signings in and see some juniors come through.

People may say four years is too long but who is the next great coach, Ivan will won't be welcomed back, Bennett may not be coherent by then, Bellamy will be gone. Hasler is good but not great. That said you only sign Arthur if you can signing a good defensive coach.

Someone like Pay as a assistant to BA would be good. His roster was dog shit but the players all put in for him and went well in defence all things considered.

Nothing wrong with Gutho and Mahoney. Both of those blokes would be an upgrade on their Tigers counterparts. Also off contract next year and available to negotiate with from November as is Junior Paulo. If signing Brad Arthur meant you'd get these blokes for 2023, it'd be a no brainer.

 

[gordsy]

A seeing eye dog would be an upgrade on some of our players.

I do rate Gutho and Mahoney and they are the exact type of players we need to sign to start the journey.

We need to let go of this one gun player will fix us delusion.

 

[Tiger05]

We need to let go of this one gun player will fix us delusion.

One gun player like Latrell or Tommy T would change our team but yeah we need like 5 players. The question is can Hastings and Gildart play. If we can get a couple of juniors like Stef and Laurie next plus those guys are guns we could realistically challenge for the 8.

It's pretty sad though. We are talking about ESL players turning into gun NRL players and hoping we can pick up some gun players who aren't getting opportunities in other teams. That would make us a chance at the 8.

I'm still okay with taking this approach. I don't want to go down the path of paying marquee dollars for players that aren't marquee. So missing out on Finucane and TPJ to me is fine.

 

[Tigerm]

One gun player like Latrell or Tommy T would change our team but yeah we need like 5 players. The question is can Hastings and Gildart play. If we can get a couple of juniors like Stef and Laurie next plus those guys are guns we could realistically challenge for the 8.

It's pretty sad though. We are talking about ESL players turning into gun NRL players and hoping we can pick up some gun players who aren't getting opportunities in other teams. That would make us a chance at the 8.

I'm still okay with taking this approach. I don't want to go down the path of paying marquee dollars for players that aren't marquee. So missing out on Finucane and TPJ to me is fine.

One gun player, can make a huge difference to a team.

There are ample examples of this, Tommy Turbo turned Manly into a top 4 team, where they seemed destined to be fighting out the spoon with the dogs, before he came back?

Ponga for the Knights Is another?

 

[Tiger05]

One gun player, can make a huge difference to a team.

There are ample examples of this, Tommy Turbo turned Manly into a top 4 team, where they seemed destined to be fighting out the spoon with the dogs, before he came back?

Ponga for the Knights Is another?

You got to get a gun player though. It's like a top 2-3 player in the comp. Latrell & Tommy Turbo are two players that could do it. I'm not sold that Tedesco or Ponga are that player although they are close.

 

[Ned Kelly]

concern with Flanagan is he brings his son, who makes Luke Brooks look like Andrew Johns

I could live with that.

 

[stryker]

One gun player, can make a huge difference to a team.

There are ample examples of this, Tommy Turbo turned Manly into a top 4 team, where they seemed destined to be fighting out the spoon with the dogs, before he came back?

Ponga for the Knights Is another?

Why are we talking about the 1% gun players?
If you don’t have the cattle to go along with them you have several problems;

1. You won’t sign them. No one wants the stress of being head and shoulders the best player in a team. It puts a massive target on their head and they get the shits that they are required to pull more than their fair share. Latrell eluded to this when we tried signing him and look at Taumalolo’s form drop since certain players retired.

2. If by chance you do sign them, which would mean 40-50% overs on contract values, team harmony is disrupted. The next best guys receive criticism for not stepping up, whilst those on the their below become disgruntled at the severe lack of equity.

3. Your club will constantly criticised in the media. The gun will be untouchable as he will be seen to be selflessly helping out a shit roster. It is the next best group who will come under fire along with the coaches. Think Jarrad Hayne at the Titans.

4. Continued poor results could become detrimental to the gun’s reputation and result in bad mouthing of the club and possible contract breaking.

We need to build a roster of consistently good players before we search for the missing piece talent to be the cherry on top. At the moment I would classify our roster as consistently average with sporadic good performances. We are a long way off signing a gun at the top level.

 

[Tigerm]

Why are we talking about the 1% gun players?
If you don’t have the cattle to go along with them you have several problems;

1. You won’t sign them. No one wants the stress of being head and shoulders the best player in a team. It puts a massive target on their head and they get the shits that they are required to pull more than their fair share. Latrell eluded to this when we tried signing him and look at Taumalolo’s form drop since certain players retired.

2. If by chance you do sign them, which would mean 40-50% overs on contract values, team harmony is disrupted. The next best guys receive criticism for not stepping up, whilst those on the their below become disgruntled at the severe lack of equity.

3. Your club will constantly criticised in the media. The gun will be untouchable as he will be seen to be selflessly helping out a shit roster. It is the next best group who will come under fire along with the coaches. Think Jarrad Hayne at the Titans.

4. Continued poor results could become detrimental to the gun’s reputation and result in bad mouthing of the club and possible contract breaking.

We need to build a roster of consistently good players before we search for the missing piece talent to be the cherry on top. At the moment I would classify our roster as consistently average with sporadic good performances. We are a long way off signing a gun at the top level.

No one said we were getting one, it was a discussion.
It’s an opinion forum.
I said earlier, IMO, we need to get to the level below elite and grab some solid first graders.