Match Discussion: Round 19 vs Sydney @ Sunshine Coast Stadium

[Loose Cannon]

We haven't moved forward a single step since O'Brien started. Not one millimetre forward. 2 years in, and not a single modicum of progress for mine. We're definitely capable of better. It's not all personnel. Yes, we have some plonkers, but there's way more wrong than just them.

I’m starting to appreciate Nathan Brown’s press conference content of “Ooh look”.

It’s less offensive than AOB excuses.

 

[aqua_duck]

On average points per game, we are second worst this year - only ahead of the Dogs.

Coaching has to be reviewed over the off-season and needs to be addressed one way or another.

This. Our attack is basically give it to Ponga and hope for the best, there's just no bodies in motion at all for 80% of our sets. If you look at the overall team stats we ranked right near the bottom for 2 key attacking stats in decoys and number of line engagements, I think it illustrates that there just aren't bodies in motion and we do not ask alot of questions of the opposition defence

 

[Zoidberg]

Was Young hooked near the end? Noticed Tuala on the wing and Jones at centre.

And I agree, I don’t want to make the finals this year. Not deserved.

 

[Jono078]

Here's something depressing to ponder over.

In a year where attacking points are basically at all-time highs, we average 16.2 points per game.

In 2017 we won the wooden spoon and averaged 17.6 points, when on average there was 3 points less scored per team, per game... That's a huge difference.

As others have said, having bad attack places that much more pressure on your defense, this year more than ever.

 

[Johns Magic]

Re-signing Mann is a going to be a real albatross around the neck for O’Brien I think. If he’s part of the grand plan, it stinks.

 

[PhilGould]

The forwards were very good in the first half, other than that not many positives to be found. Absolute shocker from our entire spine makes it impossible.

 

[slotmachine]

Re-signing Mann is a going to be a real albatross around the neck for O’Brien I think. If he’s part of the grand plan, it stinks.

Looks like we're running back the same squad plus gagai and a forward minus tuala and King.

Oh, we might lose Watson who is consistently one of our best 3 players

 

[perverse]

Do we really have any plonkers? It's his choice to use Mann. I would have just kept Brodie Jones out at centre all year. Josh King has been great this year. Sue has been a great find. Watson is wonderful through the middle when used well. Clifford has been a really good signing (by tonight).

Who are the plodders? We have the resources. Why keep picking Mann?

Oh we do for sure. Just the team out there tonight - you've got Mann who is God King of the plodders, Crossland who is the most invisible halfback I've ever seen, Tuala who gets a lot more stick than he deserves - but probably isn't a first grade quality centre and Young who is incredibly underdone and in need of a break. Barney ain't much chop either tbh, although I've loved him in years gone by - he's been shit this year and cooks our defence far more often than he lays a hit on these days, and offers nothing with the ball.

But the thing is, all of the above said, there are a lot of quality first graders and better in the team too - and not everyone can be a star. You don't need to be a star player to know how to fall into your shape regularly, how to cover your man in defence, how to have a go every week and get the little 1 percenters right, how and when to run as a decoy, etc, etc, etc. These are things that anyone that receives a paycheque to study and train Rugby League full time should be able to do - if instructed and managed correctly.

 

[GidleyTwinz]

What don't we have? Anything at all that resembles an actual team, working together, punching holes in the opposition and doing all the little things right with attention to detail and clear decision making. We don't have consistent intensity and enthusiasm. We don't have a clear style of football or strategy. We look like we'd be exactly the same team even if we didn't have a coach at all. That is a shocking indictment on whatever it is we're doing.

Serious question, (and nobody here is going to want to hear this after another loss) but can you give me an example of a coach who has been able to come into a club like ours (i.e. not a big money salary cap sombrero) and completely turn the organisation around within a couple of years?

Outside of Cleary, who walked into perhaps the richest crop of local juniors since the Newcastle teams of the late 1990s, it just doesn't seem to happen. Brad Arthur is the best blueprint, and it's taken him 7-8 years to get Parra to the upper echelon of the comp.

I'm not saying AOB is the answer - I don't know if he is or isn't. But all these calls to just sack the coach are cathartic, but I'm not sure they're sensible.

In this comp, it takes a long time to rebuild a team and rebuild a culture. AOB hasn't had that time. And it's probably fair to dislike him using injuries as an excuse in press conferences - I don't want the coach to come out and say it. Nut it is a real reason for why our performance this year has been the way it's been. We've had Ponga and Pearce on the field together for one game!

Ultimately, fans of 11-13 teams in the comp are currently unhappy with their season and their coach. But I think anyone giving AOB a grade of anything other than incomplete is being too harsh

 

[perverse]

Re-signing Mann is a going to be a real albatross around the neck for O’Brien I think. If he’s part of the grand plan, it stinks.

10000% yes. Worst and most baffling re-signing I can recall in recent memory. Never showed much, and having the most turdest of turd years with us - and we sign up for 2 more years of it. Completely inexplicable.

 

[perverse]

Serious question, (and nobody here is going to want to hear this after another loss) but can you give me an example of a coach who has been able to come into a club like ours (i.e. not a big money salary cap sombrero) and completely turn the organisation around within a couple of years?

Outside of Cleary, who walked into perhaps the richest crop of local juniors since the Newcastle teams of the late 1990s, it just doesn't seem to happen. Brad Arthur is the best blueprint, and it's taken him 7-8 years to get Parra to the upper echelon of the comp.

I'm not saying AOB is the answer - I don't know if he is or isn't. But all these calls to just sack the coach are cathartic, but I'm not sure they're sensible.

In this comp, it takes a long time to rebuild a team and rebuild a culture. AOB hasn't had that time. And it's probably fair to dislike him using injuries as an excuse in press conferences - I don't want the coach to come out and say it. Nut it is a real reason for why our performance this year has been the way it's been. We've had Ponga and Pearce on the field together for one game!

Ultimately, fans of 11-13 teams in the comp are currently unhappy with their season and their coach. But I think anyone giving AOB a grade of anything other than incomplete is being too harsh

No-one is expecting us to be a gun side - but it's not unreasonable to expect the 17 that take the field to:

1 - Look like they've seen a football before and;
2 - Have a crack every week

We can't even tick those basic ones. We don't even show signs of it. Honestly, we've only looked good in O'Briens tenure when the track is flat (or downhill), and Pearce (with a fit Ponga for that matter) is out there to run the show. I'm not sure you can find 20 minutes of football outside of those conditions where it's the case. It's just not good enough, and accepting it or making excuses for it will only sign us up for more of it imo.

 

[Yosh]

I hope we get more Sunday night games so a Knights game doesn't ruin my whole weekend.

 

[GidleyTwinz]

No-one is expecting us to be a gun side - but it's not unreasonable to expect the 17 that take the field to:

1 - Look like they've seen a football before and;
2 - Have a crack every week

We can't even tick those basic ones. We don't even show signs of it. Honestly, we've only looked good in O'Briens tenure when the track is flat (or downhill), and Pearce (with a fit Ponga for that matter) is out there to run the show. I'm not sure you can find 20 minutes of football outside of those conditions where it's the case. It's just not good enough, and accepting it or making excuses for it will only sign us up for more of it imo.

Mate we're 10th. And 2 points off 7th. Despite spending most of the year missing our 2 most important players.

I'm not happy with where we are, and I don't think we're playing well. But if we don't look like we've ever seen a football field, and don't have a crack, then you can level a similar criticism at more than half the comp.

These lads are competing in the highest level competition in the world, and they're about average. And it sucks to be a fan of an average team, I totally get it.

Blokes want to call for coaches to be fired because it's easier to think 'if we just sign the right coach, we'll be one of those good teams' than 'if we sign the right coach, we probably wont know for at least 4-5 years, and even then we'll probably not be as good as the storm or the roosters, but we might have a chance of coming top 4 and jagging a premiership'.

 

[K-Man]

Serious question, (and nobody here is going to want to hear this after another loss) but can you give me an example of a coach who has been able to come into a club like ours (i.e. not a big money salary cap sombrero) and completely turn the organisation around within a couple of years?

Outside of Cleary, who walked into perhaps the richest crop of local juniors since the Newcastle teams of the late 1990s, it just doesn't seem to happen. Brad Arthur is the best blueprint, and it's taken him 7-8 years to get Parra to the upper echelon of the comp.

I'm not saying AOB is the answer - I don't know if he is or isn't. But all these calls to just sack the coach are cathartic, but I'm not sure they're sensible.

In this comp, it takes a long time to rebuild a team and rebuild a culture. AOB hasn't had that time. And it's probably fair to dislike him using injuries as an excuse in press conferences - I don't want the coach to come out and say it. Nut it is a real reason for why our performance this year has been the way it's been. We've had Ponga and Pearce on the field together for one game!

Ultimately, fans of 11-13 teams in the comp are currently unhappy with their season and their coach. But I think anyone giving AOB a grade of anything other than incomplete is being too harsh

Well for one I've personally not said the words "sack the coach" once. Not tonight, not ever since AOB got here. Every point I'm making is something I believe to be a fair criticism, based on what I see week after week. Does it all get fixed if we get rid of AOB and bring in somebody else? Probably not. That's not for me to decide. But I've watched and played enough football to know that what I'm seeing is definitely not a well coached football team. Across the board we've got a team that I believe a serious coach would back himself to get to the finals. You can't tell me we shouldn't be beating the Tigers twice in a season, rather than losing to them twice in a season.

As for your actual question, that's hard to answer. Many of us have cited the Smith example, but in terms of a relatively new coach none particularly stand out I suppose. But in certain periods or seasons I do think some teams stand out as playing high above their perceived threshold. When the Sharks won the comp I don't think their team was THAT amazing. The Raiders two seasons ago could have won the comp, and I don't even like or rate Ricky at all but that was a team where the way they played is what them awesome, not necessarily the 1-17. Very few coaches are consistently successful, but plenty are able to improve the team they have at different times. I've seen no evidence yet that we're building towards anything.

 

[perverse]

I'm not happy with where we are, and I don't think we're playing well. But if we don't look like we've ever seen a football field, and don't have a crack, then you can level a similar criticism at more than half the comp.

Blokes want to call for coaches to be fired because it's easier to think 'if we just sign the right coach, we'll be one of those good teams' than 'if we sign the right coach, we probably wont know for at least 4-5 years, and even then we'll probably not be as good as the storm or the roosters, but we might have a chance of coming top 4 and jagging a premiership'.

Actually, I DO level a similar criticism at more than half the comp. It is an incredibly weak comp this year, and a lack of quality coaching is a big contributor to that.

 

[slotmachine]

Saying you're below average in a garbage comp isn't a ringing endorsement.

 

[K-Man]

Actually, I DO level a similar criticism at more than half the comp. It is an incredibly weak comp this year, and a lack of quality coaching is a big contributor to that.

Yeah, this is pretty much what I've been getting at. Ignoring the Knights for a moment, my opinion is that not enough teams are extremely well coached, and if they were the comp wouldn't be so uneven. I don't believe clubs are taking enough responsibility for why they lose, what makes them poor vs the top sides. Because I can pretty much guarantee if you had the smartest, best drilled team of good decision makers and cogs in the wheel who do their job consistently if not spectacularly, you would make the top eight. It's a weak comp, and a very good coach could take almost any team in it (bar maybe Bulldogs, Warriors, Tigers based on talent) to the finals. But the quality of game management and attention to detail across the board is embarrassing.

 

[NoSchitSherlock]

I agree with AOB. Damn useless putting the same kicks up into the wind and expecting a different result.
No smarts shown.

 

[Johns Magic]

10000% yes. Worst and most baffling re-signing I can recall in recent memory. Never showed much, and having the most turdest of turd years with us - and we sign up for 2 more years of it. Completely inexplicable.

I actually feel for Mann. I’m sure he’s a good guy and a team player and his flaws aren’t from a lack of effort. I could totally handle O’Brien getting behind him during his existing contract. I do not want to bash him.

But he hasn’t found a home in any position after plenty of opportunities. More importantly he embodies the biggest issue we have right now, which is that we are extremely stunted in our attack. We needed to move on.

We need footballers in the side who can play with some fluency. I don’t love Gagai but I’m at least happy to have him back on that front.

 

[slotmachine]

Nothing presser from AOB.

We're a young team, we're dumb. Need to work hard