Matthew Johns, the Media Rape Libel and the War Against Sport - Letter to Gus

[bartman]

Gould simply said that he was worried about MJ's state of mind... implying he might cause himself some damage of some sort. It's drawing a long - and rather biased? - bow to say that Gould implied Johns was suicidal.

 

[robertmorris]

no it isn't. the story is that a gang bang occured and the girl involved felt violated and used afterwards.

the issue here is that some people feel he behaved inappropriately/ took advantage of the girl or whatever and that is a bad look for the game, hence why he was stood down.

If that is what you honestly believe then you have missed the entirety of what has gone on for the past week. Matthew Johns has been slurred as a rapist.

If you are trying to deny that then your on a different planet.

But lets run with it: Will you say, that you believe 'Clare' gave consent? That you believe Matthew Johns and his teammates in that room had consent? That you believe Matthew Johns and his teammates did not rape 'Clare'?

If you can say yes to those then fine, there are moral issues, but again they do make him a rapist and he does not deserve to be slurred as one. And please go further, write in and scream loudly to your friends, Matthew is not a rapist and does it is not right that he is insinuated as one.

If you can not, then you do believe that he did, or may have, raped 'Clare', and that is the rape libel I am talking of.

 

[Kiki]

you do realise all of this is YOUR intepretation and not fact...right?

no one has accused Matthew Johns of rape. not even in the most bias articles like Rebecca Wilsons has that been suggested.

personally i think she was probably consenting (or perhaps silent) during the sex act, but then regretted it later and freaked out.

 

[8Ball]

Gould simply said that he was worried about MJ's state of mind... implying he might cause himself some damage of some sort. It's drawing a long - and rather biased? - bow to say that Gould implied Johns was suicidal.

I've had enough experience with people with suicidal thoughts to know. Make of it what you will.

 

[robertmorris]

Gould simply said that he was worried about MJ's state of mind... implying he might cause himself some damage of some sort. It's drawing a long - and rather biased? - bow to say that Gould implied Johns was suicidal.

I don't think so, I think that was exactly what Gus was suggesting. As to whether Gus's judgement was right, who knows? I think as a friend he was thinking worst case scenario, and it was probably hyperbole. But as a man on the inside and a close friend of Matt's, it goes to show just how seriously Gus thinks it has affected him. Committing self-harm or a suicide attempt is rock-bottom, and Gus feared that that is where Matt is being driven.

 

[bartman]

The decision by 9 and the Storm and RLW to stand down Johns was a business decision. Pure and simple.

Until such time as Johns is "safe business" again (with the passage of time, or his voluntary non-tokenistic contribution toward some better understanding of gender relations in the league or general community), he will remain stood down. That is what this has been about, not injustice or moral decision-making by Johns employers. It's a business decision about someone whose career relies upon public perceptions in the first place.

 

[deluded pom?]

I don't believe for one minute that Matthew Johns or Brett Firman raped "Clare" and I don't think either are being accused of it. I believe that Johns and Firman were in a motel room with "Clare" having consensual sex with her but that ten uninvited team mates entered the room and, for want of a better word, violated "Clare" without her consent. Not rape but sexual abuse/indecent assault, call it what you will. Matthew Johns, for whatever reason, has had to carry the can.

 

[deluded pom?]

Committing self-harm or a suicide attempt is rock-bottom,

Hasn't it been reported that "Clare" has self harmed since the incident took place?

 

[Kiki]

yes i think thats the problem here, that the other guys came in.

and yes bart exactly, it was definitely a business decision. and as i've said before, once this all dies down im sure he will be back on channel 9. in fact i can see the footy show promoting a huge matty returns home special, cant you?

 

[bartman]

I've had enough experience with people with suicidal thoughts to know. Make of it what you will.

But has Gus? Or was he getting caught up in his own feelings for his mate?

I don't think so, I think that was exactly what Gus was suggesting. As to whether Gus's judgement was right, who knows? I think as a friend he was thinking worst case scenario, and it was probably hyperbole. But as a man on the inside and a close friend of Matt's, it goes to show just how seriously Gus thinks it has affected him. Committing self-harm or a suicide attempt is rock-bottom, and Gus feared that that is where Matt is being driven.

Exactly. But to be fair, MJ has had a pretty charmed run in terms of post-footy life/career compared to his contemporaries. The first time his bubble bursts is likely to seem a huge thing to him, but if he doesn't think he's done anything "wrong" then probably not to the state of suicide etc?

I'm sure with the changes to employment and his public image he's probably hands down a case for minor depression and some pills, and I think this is what Gus may have been trying to imply.

 

[bartman]

yes i think thats the problem here, that the other guys came in.

and yes bart exactly, it was definitely a business decision. and as i've said before, once this all dies down im sure he will be back on channel 9. in fact i can see the footy show promoting a huge matty returns home special, cant you?

Yep Kiki, by being the ones to most publicly hang him out to dry (ACA interview) Ch 9 have set the scene for a massive redemption comeback when the time is right.

They have stood him down (not sacked him) and so can tell him when they expect him back at work. I'd be thinking a contrite return in grand final week, since there's nothing actually being investigated re this case between now and then anyway...

 

[8Ball]

But has Gus? Or was he getting caught up in his own feelings for his mate?

The way he worded it, doesn't sound like he was overreacting to mere sadness. Call me biased. Whatever. But I have plenty of sympathy for people with suicidal tendencies, and I do have a sense of knowing from a general situation, and words said by him/herself and close friends/family, of whether someone is suicidal.

 

[Kiki]

for the record, i dont think Matthew deserves all this moralistic crap that he's been put through. but having said that, post footy he has deliberately chased a career in the public eye...and done very well for himself out of it. when you have a public profile, scandal can often follow. the higher they are, the harder they fall.

see i feel more sorry for every day footy players that get ripped into, coz all they are doing is playing footy. Matty has sought out a career in the media and been well compensated for it, and unfortunately for him one of the downsides is the scrutiny of the past week.

it will pass and i'm sure his career will be fine.

 

[8Ball]

Edit: Double post.

 

[robertmorris]

I don't believe for one minute that Matthew Johns or Brett Firman raped "Clare" and I don't think either are being accused of it. I believe that Johns and Firman were in a motel room with "Clare" having consensual sex with her but that ten uninvited team mates entered the room and, for want of a better word, violated "Clare" without her consent. Not rape but sexual abuse/indecent assault, call it what you will.

I think you are wrong, but yours is fast becoming the accepted wisdom.

Remember that indecent assault is a far easier crime to prove than sexual assault, and all that has been said about the exoneration all the players received from police, and 'Clare's' failure to launch any civil action, holds even more true for any claim of indecent assault.

The same weaknesses of her claim against Matthew are the same for all the participants, I don't see a distinction in the facts.

One can also consent to what would otherwise be indecent assault, or indeed almost any common assault.

I think it is disingenuous to say there was no rape but there was sexual abuse, rape is any penetration without consent, your scenario would seem almost impossible without sexual assault. Remembering also that consent can be withdrawn at any time.

Again any slur of sexual assault or an assault of a sexual nature a low and disgraceful one to wear. Without reliable evidence tested in a court, it is one that is worn unjustifiably.

 

[bartman]

The way he worded it, doesn't sound like he was overreacting to mere sadness.

Fair enough... though I think Gus let his emotions get away with him during that section of the show.

He's concerned for his mate, probably hasn't seen him that glum about the situation he was facing etc, said what he said. Probably wanted MJ to see someone and talk about some support (eg possible onset of depresssion, short term drug treatment to help him through the bumps). But personally to think Gus was telling the public Johns was suicidal is probably a step beyond?

 

[robertmorris]

But has Gus? Or was he getting caught up in his own feelings for his mate?


Exactly. But to be fair, MJ has had a pretty charmed run in terms of post-footy life/career compared to his contemporaries. The first time his bubble bursts is likely to seem a huge thing to him, but if he doesn't think he's done anything "wrong" then probably not to the state of suicide etc?

I'm sure with the changes to employment and his public image he's probably hands down a case for minor depression and some pills, and I think this is what Gus may have been trying to imply.

You still have to very careful, it only takes a few seconds in the depths of depression for somebody to take their own life, and then it is over forever. I would be hesitant to say he'll be right or downplay it as not that big a deal. Don't forget people like Charmaine Dragun or Steve Rodgers.

 

[deluded pom?]

I think it is disingenuous to say there was no rape but there was sexual abuse, rape is any penetration without consent, your scenario would seem almost impossible without sexual assault. .

I've seen it reported that some of the uninvited wiped their penises on "Clare's" face. It's not penetration but if unwanted could be seen as sexual abuse.

 

[8Ball]

Fair enough... though I think Gus let his emotions get away with him during that section of the show.

He's concerned for his mate, probably hasn't seen him that glum about the situation he was facing etc, said what he said. Probably wanted MJ to see someone and talk about some support (eg possible onset of depresssion, short term drug treatment to help him through the bumps). But personally to think Gus was telling the public Johns was suicidal is probably a step beyond?

Sorry I edited my post after you quoted it.

Edit: I will just add that whilst I'm of the belief that he did harbour these thoughts, I am by no means certain.

 

[Kiki]

You still have to very careful, it only takes a few seconds in the depths of depression for somebody to take their own life, and then it is over forever. I would be hesitant to say he'll be right or downplay it as not that big a deal. Don't forget people like Charmaine Dragun or Steve Rodgers.

didn't they both have a long history of depression and emotional problems though? i know Charmaine did anyway.

btw i'm not downplaying the threat of suicide or anything, my cousin killed himself when he was 19 and my aunty is a campaigner for suicide prevention so i understand where you're coming from.