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Melbourne must still be cheating the cap

Butters

Bench
Messages
3,899
Note to all drug cheats - it is not your fault you cheated. It is the governing body simply capping how much a person could achieve.

Drugs enhance individual performance, paying someone more money doesn't.

The NRL learnt the mistake that had happened by allowing players to take pay cuts.

It would not have been fair for this to happen again.

No it would have been fair to treat the most recent salary cap "cheats" how every other team that was caught "cheating" were treated.

But they did have an unfair advantage over the other clubs by cheating the rules of the competition.

No proof that Melbourne had an advantage over the other clubs. The NRL has refused to investigate every club and submit them to a full audit of their salary payments. It's almost as if they don't want to reveal that every single club (probably not Cronulla) is also cheating the cap.

End of story, now get over it you sad little man.

I'm over it. It seems that all the Sydney team supporters are still a little butthurt over it though. :cool:
 

Apey

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
27,549
The Storm are just winners. They like to win. They are bi-winning.
 

Frailty

First Grade
Messages
9,411
Drugs enhance individual performance, paying someone more money doesn't.

Cheating the salary cap enhances a teams performance.

No it would have been fair to treat the most recent salary cap "cheats" how every other team that was caught "cheating" were treated.

Best of we sentence any criminal in the future on the basis of the lesser sentence given earlier then? Good idea.

Also, we should decriminalise heroin because that was legal in the past.

No proof that Melbourne had an advantage over the other clubs. The NRL has refused to investigate every club and submit them to a full audit of their salary payments. It's almost as if they don't want to reveal that every single club (probably not Cronulla) is also cheating the cap.

tinfoilhat.jpg


As for no proof of advantage - THEY CHEATED THE CAP AND HAD THE ABILITY TO ATTRACT MORE HIGH QUALITY PLAYERS OR KEEP THEM AT THE CLUB - THAT IS AN ADVANTAGE.


I'm over it. It seems that all the Sydney team supporters are still a little butthurt over it though. :cool:

Which is why you had to keep bumping this thread.

Seems you are 'butthurt' your team was caught cheating.
 

Haffa

Guest
Messages
16,197
No it would have been fair to treat the most recent salary cap "cheats" how every other team that was caught "cheating" were treated.

Well they did raise the Salary cap which gave them the benefit of retaining more players then they would have otherwise.
 

Butters

Bench
Messages
3,899
Cheating the salary cap enhances a teams performance.

Melbourne while "cheating" = Top of the comp
Melbourne while not "cheating" = Top of the comp

Hmm nope can't see how it enhances anything.

Best of we sentence any criminal in the future on the basis of the lesser sentence given earlier then? Good idea.

It is a good idea. It's exactly how the courts in Australia work. Complying with previously set precedents is the foundation of a fair justice system.


Also, we should decriminalise heroin because that was legal in the past.

Yes we should.

As for no proof of advantage - THEY CHEATED THE CAP AND HAD THE ABILITY TO ATTRACT MORE HIGH QUALITY PLAYERS OR KEEP THEM AT THE CLUB - THAT IS AN ADVANTAGE.

Were other clubs audited? No? Well then there's no proof that Melbourne had an advantage over the other clubs.

Also please point out which high quality players Melbourne bought from other clubs in the NRL.


Which is why you had to keep bumping this thread.

Seems you are 'butthurt' your team was caught cheating.

I bump this thread because it's proof that Melbourne were unfairly dealt with last year and in hope to educate some Sydney club supporters. :D
 

wibble

Bench
Messages
4,661
Melbourne deliberately broke the rules in a way never seen before. To treat them as other teams were treated would make no sense, as they acted like no other team that we are aware of.

Melbourne had a distinct advantage by breaking the salary cap- if they didn't get that advantage the NRL wouldn't have the rule, or no one else would care that they broke the rules. It is patently absurd to deny that spending more than the cap allows offers no advantage.

To say that the advantage is only relative and therefore we can't know if there was an advantage, because other squads were not scrutinised is actually true- it is possible that every other team broke the rules by more, and the Storm were at a relative disadvantage by not cheating enough. But the NRL can only act on what they do know, not what they don't. If a team is not caught cheating it is assumed that it is not cheating, just like if a player is not caught taking illegal drugs, it is assumed that player is not taking drugs, and we don't exonerate drug takers because we're not sure if they are actually getting an advantage (since we haven't caught everyone else yet).

If a team performs well, unless they are caught cheating, we assume that they are doing the right thing. We assume the Storm are currently doing well because they have a well coached, good roster. It doesn't matter if a team is the best team for 100 years in a row, if they are then caught cheating on the 101st, they are to be punished for cheating in that 101st year because we assume for that year that they had an unfair relative advantage. They may still have had a great roster and great coaching even though they cheated, so much so that if they chose not to cheat they may still have won. But they chose to cheat and should be punished for it.

It should not be difficult for anyone to understand. This is the sort of understanding of cheating and punishment you would want your children to grow up understanding.
 

Cloudsurfer

Juniors
Messages
1,184
Melbourne deliberately broke the rules in a way never seen before. To treat them as other teams were treated would make no sense, as they acted like no other team that we are aware of.

Melbourne had a distinct advantage by breaking the salary cap- if they didn't get that advantage the NRL wouldn't have the rule, or no one else would care that they broke the rules. It is patently absurd to deny that spending more than the cap allows offers no advantage.

To say that the advantage is only relative and therefore we can't know if there was an advantage, because other squads were not scrutinised is actually true- it is possible that every other team broke the rules by more, and the Storm were at a relative disadvantage by not cheating enough. But the NRL can only act on what they do know, not what they don't. If a team is not caught cheating it is assumed that it is not cheating, just like if a player is not caught taking illegal drugs, it is assumed that player is not taking drugs, and we don't exonerate drug takers because we're not sure if they are actually getting an advantage (since we haven't caught everyone else yet).

If a team performs well, unless they are caught cheating, we assume that they are doing the right thing. We assume the Storm are currently doing well because they have a well coached, good roster. It doesn't matter if a team is the best team for 100 years in a row, if they are then caught cheating on the 101st, they are to be punished for cheating in that 101st year because we assume for that year that they had an unfair relative advantage. They may still have had a great roster and great coaching even though they cheated, so much so that if they chose not to cheat they may still have won. But they chose to cheat and should be punished for it.

It should not be difficult for anyone to understand. This is the sort of understanding of cheating and punishment you would want your children to grow up understanding.
At last sanity prevails
 

Butters

Bench
Messages
3,899
Melbourne deliberately broke the rules in a way never seen before. To treat them as other teams were treated would make no sense, as they acted like no other team that we are aware of.

Melbourne had a distinct advantage by breaking the salary cap- if they didn't get that advantage the NRL wouldn't have the rule, or no one else would care that they broke the rules. It is patently absurd to deny that spending more than the cap allows offers no advantage.

To say that the advantage is only relative and therefore we can't know if there was an advantage, because other squads were not scrutinised is actually true- it is possible that every other team broke the rules by more, and the Storm were at a relative disadvantage by not cheating enough. But the NRL can only act on what they do know, not what they don't. If a team is not caught cheating it is assumed that it is not cheating, just like if a player is not caught taking illegal drugs, it is assumed that player is not taking drugs, and we don't exonerate drug takers because we're not sure if they are actually getting an advantage (since we haven't caught everyone else yet).

If a team performs well, unless they are caught cheating, we assume that they are doing the right thing. We assume the Storm are currently doing well because they have a well coached, good roster. It doesn't matter if a team is the best team for 100 years in a row, if they are then caught cheating on the 101st, they are to be punished for cheating in that 101st year because we assume for that year that they had an unfair relative advantage. They may still have had a great roster and great coaching even though they cheated, so much so that if they chose not to cheat they may still have won. But they chose to cheat and should be punished for it.

It should not be difficult for anyone to understand. This is the sort of understanding of cheating and punishment you would want your children to grow up understanding.

The NRL had an oppurtunity to audit every club's payments but refused. They're intentionally remaining ignorant because they know if they were to audit every club the damage to the NRL brand would be huge.
 

wibble

Bench
Messages
4,661
I don't disagree with you there Butters.

I have little doubt the NRL would rather nobody finds out about other clubs cheating, including them, than that everybody finds out. Just as I believe the NRL would have swept the Storm cheating under the rug if it was at all possible for them to do so.

It should be a regular part of the NRL salary cap regulations that all clubs can and will be audited at any time, and that all players must declare their NRL related incomes to the NRL (under strict privacy protection). In that way, no club can point the finger when they are caught cheating, and no player can claim innocence when they sign two or three contracts if they haven't declared them. The fact that the NRL doesn't do these things shows that they don't want to catch and therefore expose salary cap cheats.

Of course, this in no way exonerates the Storm (or other previously caught cheaters) from their actions. I presume that under an open audit system every Storm fan would demand any other club that is found cheating the salary cap to such a large extent would be dealt with in a similar manner to the Storm in 2010? If so, I also hope they would demand such sanctions on another club for getting an unfair advantage even if every other club hasn't been found guilty of cheating, or even investigated.
 

Butters

Bench
Messages
3,899
I don't disagree with you there Butters.

I have little doubt the NRL would rather nobody finds out about other clubs cheating, including them, than that everybody finds out. Just as I believe the NRL would have swept the Storm cheating under the rug if it was at all possible for them to do so.

It should be a regular part of the NRL salary cap regulations that all clubs can and will be audited at any time, and that all players must declare their NRL related incomes to the NRL (under strict privacy protection). In that way, no club can point the finger when they are caught cheating, and no player can claim innocence when they sign two or three contracts if they haven't declared them. The fact that the NRL doesn't do these things shows that they don't want to catch and therefore expose salary cap cheats.

Of course, this in no way exonerates the Storm (or other previously caught cheaters) from their actions. I presume that under an open audit system every Storm fan would demand any other club that is found cheating the salary cap to such a large extent would be dealt with in a similar manner to the Storm in 2010? If so, I also hope they would demand such sanctions on another club for getting an unfair advantage even if every other club hasn't been found guilty of cheating, or even investigated.

Quality post, I agree with everything you've said.

It's a shame most other posters would rather troll than actually discuss the issue.
 

Raider_69

Post Whore
Messages
61,174
I recon i must be the only bloke who isnt a storm fan who is stoked at how well they are going

their strength has never been in its game breaking talent, its in their system, their coaching, their expectations and the style
I hope they win the comp.
 

Big Pete

Referee
Messages
29,052
I'm happy with how well the Storm have responded and it just goes to show how great they are.

They got rightfully punished, but moving forward it's all looking very positive.
 

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