Mentally Weak Culture

[Cold Roses]

Having said that our NSW cup side is going well and the one player he has tested the waters with from that team (CNK) has come up trumps. (Injury forced his hand though) So why wont he give other players a go? Does Kearney lack the stones?

Don't forget, there is a limit to the number of players who can actually play first grade each year. Exceeding that number requires an excessive injury toll. 11 rounds into the comp is probably too early to be making massive changes in case those young guys then don't prove their worth.

It will be interesting to see over the next 5 or 6 weeks if gradual changes start to happen.

 

[Blair]

Watching us in our strong years, under Anderson and Cleary, we didn't seem mentally weak at all. We were as gutsy as all hell in a lot of our wins even.

Those sides were based in the same city as the current lot.

 

[vvvrulz]

Watching us in our strong years, under Anderson and Cleary, we didn't seem mentally weak at all. We were as gutsy as all hell in a lot of our wins even.

Those sides were based in the same city as the current lot.

Those teams were filled with hard nosed Aussie men, most of whom weren't high profile but simply knew how to actually play the game, won all the 1%ers and turned up for 80 minutes, every week, every season. Not to mention Anderson and Cleary putting up a clear zero tolerance on laziness and bad attitude.

But no, we're chasing more burned out Kiwis and matey mates; we don't win games but gee Kearney and Kidwell are a couple of swell guys. Important thing is the boys are relaxed and having fun.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

It's basic fundamental skills, for me. Complete inability to catch, pass or tackle effectively - which is ingrained in Australian-based players because of their upbringing in SG Ball, school footy etc. Quality of coaches too.

Time for a secondary base in Australia, me thinks. Look at our 20s side, 0-11. Woeful. Can't overpower other sides like they do in junior footy/school comps here, and can't win a game Set up on Central Coast (?) or somewhere, align juniors to us, take the cream of our crop over from here to learn how to win games of footy. I dunno....

 

[Blair]

It's basic fundamental skills, for me. Complete inability to catch, pass or tackle effectively - which is ingrained in Australian-based players because of their upbringing in SG Ball, school footy etc. Quality of coaches too.

Time for a secondary base in Australia, me thinks. Look at our 20s side, 0-11. Woeful. Can't overpower other sides like they do in junior footy/school comps here, and can't win a game Set up on Central Coast (?) or somewhere, align juniors to us, take the cream of our crop over from here to learn how to win games of footy. I dunno....

But Penny I still don't get it, if the player development - juniors - are the problem then how come we've won the juniors comp, and as recently as a few years ago?

 

[Penrose Warrior]

Only a guess, because I haven't watched the 20s since I regularly did from 2011- earlier.

Guess a) is the guys from the Australian teams are now bigger than they were, and match up as well if not better to our guys. Fair to say from 2011 earlier we generally had the biggest boppers. I think the club also openly said they're not interested in the 20s anymore and valued Intrust Cup more - ie playing Hingano there to match him against bigger bodies?

Guess b) is coaches. John Ackland was a fine, fine coach and recruiter. Tony Iro, not so sure there but probably had the cattle plus some nous. I'd suggest if we're 0-11, there must be some serious questions over who's coaching the side (is it still Kelvin Wright, unsure).

 

[Cold Roses]

Guess a) is the guys from the Australian teams are now bigger than they were, and match up as well if not better to our guys. Fair to say from 2011 earlier we generally had the biggest boppers. I think the club also openly said they're not interested in the 20s anymore and valued Intrust Cup more - ie playing Hingano there to match him against bigger bodies?

Mostly this. The under 20's isn't even going to exist from as early as next year I think? It hasn't proven to be of any benefit to us so far anyway.

There are a growing number of young guys of Polynesian and Maori decent coming up through the Australian teams now as well. And those guys are getting coached properly when they are coming through the Australian school system.

The club has done the right thing in placing more emphasis on the ISP cup.

 

[One Warrior]

Your first paragraph in spot on and 2 names spring to mine

Kevin Locke and Tui Lolohea
Both given opportunites to play first grade, played well and all they had to do was to work hard and cement their place in the team. Both slacked off and other players were bought in. Both could of put up a fight to get back in the team but Locke thought bugger that and packed up and went now Tui looks like he will do the same.
f**king soft pampered pricks
Where is the fight, hunger and drive to make it.

Look at Ayshford he fought and showed heart and is back in first grade

Kevin Locke use to be my favourite player, never forget what he did in that game against the Roosters in Christchurch, thought he had the right attitude, I was wrong.

 

[vvvrulz]

Kevin Locke use to be my favourite player, never forget what he did in that game against the Roosters in Christchurch, thought he had the right attitude, I was wrong.

He had the right attitude... under the right coach.

 

[RHYTHM AND STEALTH]

Don't forget, there is a limit to the number of players who can actually play first grade each year. Exceeding that number requires an excessive injury toll. 11 rounds into the comp is probably too early to be making massive changes in case those young guys then don't prove their worth.

It will be interesting to see over the next 5 or 6 weeks if gradual changes start to happen.

we have already wasted some spots on isaiah papailii and erin clark

 

[Cold Roses]

we have already wasted some spots on isaiah papailii and erin clark

So we've already used 26 players in first grade this season.

 

[mikeob]

The difference with the big forward thing is that it's entirely false whereas this seems entirely true.

One of the big differences with Union is that if you've made it to a high level of Union in New Zealand you have really gone through the grind. I know some incredibly talented rugby players who have not made the highest level for one reason or another. The competition of Rugby in NZ is of the highest standard right from a grass roots and school level, it's an incredibly difficult cauldron to rise through. The path to the Warriors is not nearly as competitive and demanding.

For Aussie this is true of league, if you've made it to the top of that system you need to be a great talent to have beat out the competition along the way.

We also need to remember that here Union is the game, the best talents want to play Rugby, that's what they dream of.

Even at club level in NZ the standard of play is so high, a good club player here can go get paid in Europe because we have such a wealth of talent we have bred here.

To reinforce what you wrote WellsNZ this is how things were in Brisbane and Auckland before the Broncos and Warriors. Prior to the Broncos the Brisbane competition was made up of eight semi professional clubs. They were district clubs and covered the whole city and most if not all of them had at least a couple of junior clubs which fed the senior teams. Included in the eight clubs was Brothers ala Marist who had their own district.

The competition consisted of 21 rounds and each club played the opposition once at home, once away and once at Lang Park. The top five then played the finals. This system filtered down through the juniors. I'm pretty sure the juniors played two rounds. This system ensures the best players play against the best players on a regular basis and the young guys are being put under pressure and developing mental toughness from their early teens.

Now compare that with Auckland. In 93 and 94 Auckland had 33 clubs spread across three divisions and something really stupid called promotion relegation. This meant the best players didn't play against each other anywhere near as much as they should have and the talent was spread too thinly, this system filtered all the way down through the juniors. In 71 and 72 I played third grade for Richmond. The ARL had the competition split into zones; North and South if I remember correctly. Richmond and Otahuhu were the best two teams in 71 but we only played each other once.

Overall there probably wasn't a lot of difference to how many clubs there were/are in each city it is how the competitions are structured and run.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Aussie start to learn the game at a very young age (sg ball, jersey flegg etc). Over here half our players don't actually start to learn the game until they hit first grade (don't try to tell me the lines of Hurrell and Kata learnt anything steamrolling players in NYC) because we've either grabbed them from union or they've only played low standard local league.

Worst of all we've spent all our time and resources investing in athletic freaks and physical specimens. Look at how skillful Tui is, look at how destructive Kata is, Maumalo is so fast and so big, blah blah. It has never come under consideration that these guys don't even have half a football brain between them.

Composure, awareness, reactions, anticipation, vision, desire, heart, commitment - none of these things are measured in the weight room, and none of them are measured with a stopwatch. Name the players we have who actually have half of those things let alone the full 8 and I would bet that will be a damn short list.

True. The obvious exception there is Simon Manneiring, and who are we missing most right now?

 

[Penrose Warrior]

The obvious comparison is NZ rugby, right? Strong school system, absolute overstock of great coaches from juniors, school-grade, even club up to Super Rugby etc. Kiwis coach 5 of the top 12 international sides for the next World Cup. Players get genuinely great competition and instruction from the day they hit the field, so it's pretty well a lock that if a guy shines right through to the top level, he'll make it from there.

Not so in league. You've got no idea if a Kata, Hurrell, Sipley etc will make it. I can't see how we'd change that in NZ, so as I previously said we need to set up over the ditch - lose this silly jingoistic stuff about how we're an NZ club - and tap into the goldmine that Australia have and we don't.

 

[Cloudsurfer]

The obvious comparison is NZ rugby, right? Strong school system, absolute overstock of great coaches from juniors, school-grade, even club up to Super Rugby etc. Kiwis coach 5 of the top 12 international sides for the next World Cup. Players get genuinely great competition and instruction from the day they hit the field, so it's pretty well a lock that if a guy shines right through to the top level, he'll make it from there.

Not so in league. You've got no idea if a Kata, Hurrell, Sipley etc will make it. I can't see how we'd change that in NZ, so as I previously said we need to set up over the ditch - lose this silly jingoistic stuff about how we're an NZ club - and tap into the goldmine that Australia have and we don't.

This ^^^

Why do you think Storm's feeder clubs are East Tigers and Falcons? There's no real RL structure in Melbourne and while they support it they don't prop it up. AND those feeder clubs are both in Qcup for a reason (someone mentioned in here that it's better than nswcup & it is).
Why have the Warriors relied on their homegrown feeder team only - what is wrong with partnering with another one over there?
Long-term NZ needs to build a quality country-wide comp that gets exposure to great coaching - ozzies & others but they could be doing that already - invest a little in developing NZ coaches from age-grade level & upwards. Player potential benefits exponentially from quality coaching.

In the meantime use the ozzie system to recruit like all the other clubs...can even be kiwis that have come up thru it (why not?)...you know, the ones the Warriors (and Kiwis) miss out once they're entrenched in the 'ozzie is best for your career' pipeline.
Why do we always have to try & prove we can do it on our own and make the distinction/ remind everyone we are nz all the time? Fine for our national team but not the nrl imo. Take NZ off the front and become completely part of the nrl like the other clubs - small thing I know but there's an ego booster and/ or a pressure (depending on character) and a barrier gone right there!

 

[vvvrulz]

Hmm so I caught a bit of social media footage before the game, turns out the boys were chilling out in the park all smiles having a backs vs forwards runabout.

Glad to see us taking one of our most embarrassing losses to heart and putting in the hard yards to make up eh?

Its a holiday camp.

 

[Philip_Smith007]

Warriors concede rugby league ‘isn’t working for them’
By Dane Eldridge | 1 day ago
The New Zealand Warriors have conceded that starting a rugby league team was a “poor business decision” and that the game “probably isn’t their thing."

The confession follows last night’s meek 30-14 resignation to the Dragons at FMG Stadium in Waikato, a loss that extended the club’s streak of wasted potential to 22 years.

Playing with a virtual international team in their own conditions against an injury-depleted opposition, the Warriors lived up to expectations and caved spectacularly.

Most notably it was their star-studded spine who gifted the hardy gathering of confused rugby union fans in Waikato a night they’ll never forget, turning on a performance more anonymous than the opposing quartet of playmakers they lined up against.

In the end it was a six tries to three demolition that tidily complemented the spluttering narrative of their underwhelming season and hence their existence.

However, this bewildering implosion was unlike those before it, as it ultimately revealed the organisation does have a pulse.

The failure triggered the club into action, with a root-and-branch review conducted to determine the viability of being a professional disappointment.

Following the recommendations of the review, the Warriors will now restructure their business model and cease trading in rugby league altogether.

Many business experts have pointed out the high degree of financial risk this poses for the club, with a 260 per cent reduction in revenue forecast from no longer flogging off 25 switch jerseys per season.

But the club believes winding up rugby league operations will open up an exciting opportunity to concentrate exclusively on exploring “the best fit for their brand”, which will probably result in them becoming a specialist Nines outfit.

While acknowledging any day involving the word ‘brand’ to be one of deep sadness, the Warriors paid tribute to their decorated history of disappointment in the “conventional but highly complex 65-minute version of the game”.

The club highlighted the successful campaigns of 2002 and 2011 and made special mention of the organisation’s greatest spike in popularity when then-owner Eric Watson reportedly beat up Russell Crowe in the toilets.

The Warriors will now see out the season with an “orderly wind-down” of football operations, meaning a negligible change in product quality.

The club plans to re-launch in 2019 under a new business model concentrating largely on assets consolidation.

This will be mainly based on a shrewd strategy of abstaining from routinely sacking one coach every year.

http://www.theroar.com.au/2017/05/20/warriors-concede-rugby-league-isnt-working/

 

[Matua]

Slap the f**king bro culture out of the team, the coaches and the club.

I actually wonder if we should be in this comp, we'd be better off sending our players to the aussie clubs to get schooled up.

The aussies we get over here are basically on a working holiday and are not giving 100%.

I really don't think the 'novelty ' of having a side in the NRL has worn off, non performing players (Luke RTS Foran etc etf**kingcetera ) know their jobs are safe.. they always have since Cleary left.

WTF? Why on earth would you have a go at Foran for his on field performance? Arguably the only reason we won a couple of games and jumped out to a lead in another was because of his influence.

 

[vvvrulz]

WTF? Why on earth would you have a go at Foran for his on field performance? Arguably the only reason we won a couple of games and jumped out to a lead in another was because of his influence.

Yep, and what happened to the other games?

Foran certainly made a difference at first but he's clearly somewhere else now.

 

[vvvrulz]

Warriors concede rugby league ‘isn’t working for them’
By Dane Eldridge | 1 day ago
The New Zealand Warriors have conceded that starting a rugby league team was a “poor business decision” and that the game “probably isn’t their thing."

Whoever said that should be shot at dawn.