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Metcalf a Warrior

KeepingTheFaith

Referee
Messages
25,235
The sentiments are fair enough, but the facts are just plain wrong. The incident in question was committed in 2003.
 

KeepingTheFaith

Referee
Messages
25,235
Most women are 4-6 weeks along before they even find out they're pregnant. Once again, the facts are flat out wrong.
 

Skinner

Coach
Messages
13,581
Correct on both counts KTF. Don't mind the debate but lets lose the abortion component of this. It's simply a red herring and an opportunity for pro/anti abortionists to push their barrow.
 

Rich102

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
11,670
I can't believe anyone is even remotely supportive of this.

Look at the facts:

It wasn't a terminated pregnancy. Doctors refuse to perform abortions once the foetus is more than a month or 2 old, because that's when it stops being a bunch of cells and starts to look like a person. Can you blame them?

She was 5 months pregnant at the time, not 1 or 2. And instead of a medical procedure, he and a bunch of his mates assaulted a teenage girl in an attempt to murder his own child.

And to top it all off, he now has 6 year old twins with another woman. Given that he's 23, that means they were born in 2005, and that they were conceived in 2004 - THE SAME YEAR HE ATTACKED HIS GIRLFRIEND.

So not only did he and a bunch of his mates beat up a teenage girl and attempt to kill his child - he was cheating on her with another girl at the same time, and got her knocked up as well.

Scum. Absolute scum. 18 months is nowhere near long enough for a lowlife bastard like Metcalf.

Strong words.
Where do the lynch mob sign up?
 
Messages
2,753
Do you think Metcalfe if given a chance can honestly shake that sort of past off his shoulders? I dont think so. But would we able to look deep within and forgive a man who knows he did wrong? I hate what he did and I would love to smack him in the chops but if a guy has turned his life around maybe even a stubborn bstard like me can forgive
 

Talanexor

Juniors
Messages
1,798
Nearly 20% of abortions in NZ are performed on women who are more than 3 months pregnant.

http://www.abortion.gen.nz/information/statistics.html

Fair enough, abortion laws might be different in NZ. According to this, medical abortions can be performed up to 9 weeks, and surgical abortions up to 12 weeks (or later in some States).

http://www.mariestopes.org.au/our-services/women/abortion#comparison

I agree that abortion isn't the central issue here, but it's not irrelevant.

I'm all for abortion being an option. Mistakes happen, and I think it's less cruel in many cases to terminate a pregnancy than to bring a baby into a world where you can't realistically care for it. Most 15-16 year olds would definitely be in this boat.

But getting a bunch of mates together and gang bashing a pregnant teenage girl? Try and defend that.

This isn't an ethics forum, it's a league forum. Personally, I don't care how talented the guy is or how desperate the Warriors are for a centre right now. Signing this guy is going to get the club crucified - and rightfully so.

Given that he's just a depth signing, wouldn't it be wiser to just sign up some guy playing NYC/QLD Cup/NSW Cup at the moment. You know, someone who doesn't beat up pregnant teenage girls and who hasn't been to jail. Someone who won't destroy the club's image.
 

devoid

Juniors
Messages
1,401
I agree that abortion isn't the central issue here, but it's not irrelevant.

Yes it is. End of story.

But getting a bunch of mates together and gang bashing a pregnant teenage girl? Try and defend that.

No one is defending what he did.


This isn't an ethics forum, it's a league forum. Personally, I don't care how talented the guy is or how desperate the Warriors are for a centre right now. Signing this guy is going to get the club crucified - and rightfully so.

a good way to conclude this statement would have been '...in my opinion' which like all of us (Warriors recruitment included), you are entitled to. My opinion is that the club shouldn't be crucified for signing him, but I'm not exactly applauding them either.

Given that he's just a depth signing, wouldn't it be wiser to just sign up some guy playing NYC/QLD Cup/NSW Cup at the moment. You know, someone who doesn't beat up pregnant teenage girls and who hasn't been to jail. Someone who won't destroy the club's image.

I think the end of this statement proves that he probably isn't just a depth signing. It seems like way too much hassle for the club to sign this guy just to cover stocks. Outside of his background, it is one reason why people are very upset - we were told the club weren't interested in the guy, when it now looks like they were all along.
 

Lossy

Juniors
Messages
753
I see the thinking now - Brookvale?

That would be my move. Test the waters in a trial, issue some PR pieces, sign, let the dust settle a little, and make him a late inclusion vs Manly and Matai. Shaun may not elicit much sympathy form NRL fans but if there's one player to give him a run for his money in those stakes, it's Matai.
 
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Manu Vatuvei

Coach
Messages
16,957
Must admit I did a hit and run on this thread after dropping the abortion issue bombshell. Glad to see I wasn't lynched for it.

All I'll add is this- clearly the "abortion issue" is central to the Metcalfe issue, because almost everyone who condemns Metcalfe keeps saying "he tried to kill his unborn child" as opposed to "he kicked his girlfriend in the stomach a few times".

For me, it's one of the big reasons I can't fully condemn the guy- I can't condemn someone for trying to kill their unborn, and at the same time say that other people should be free to do so. I can't rationalise that for myself, as much as the world wants me to.

Above and beyond that I think you have to look at the specific circumstances. I can't condone what he did, but if you were a 15 year old CHILD, had the world at your feet, and suddenly had a bombshell dropped on you, what would you do? And then you add in the fact that the "bombshell" could easily be "dealt with" by the same "procedure" that most women have at some point anyway...it's a very confusing situation for a kid.

Ultimately I think what he did was deplorable and clearly criminal, but I'm not going to pretend that my views on the specific circumstances of his crime don't in some way influence my views on whether or not he should be allowed to play again. There are probably other crimes he could commit (ones which our judiciary would also regard as more serious and punish with a longer sentence), such as a crime of more violence (e.g. he killed someone or left them in some way permanently disabled/disfigured) which would make me less willing to let him play again.
 

Rich102

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
11,670
Do you think Metcalfe if given a chance can honestly shake that sort of past off his shoulders? I dont think so. But would we able to look deep within and forgive a man who knows he did wrong? I hate what he did and I would love to smack him in the chops but if a guy has turned his life around maybe even a stubborn bstard like me can forgive

Bless you my son. ;-)
 

JoeD

First Grade
Messages
7,056
Nice post Manu. You should copy and paste it into the NRL and 4C threads.
 

mrblonde

Juniors
Messages
4
Why would a surprise inclusion avoid the media sh*tstorm? It'd simply delay it, surely.

I'm waiting for Deaker/Golightly/maybe Lonergan to get stuck in. Haven't heard anything yet - but I confess I haven't exactly been listening that closely.
 

devoid

Juniors
Messages
1,401
Why would a surprise inclusion avoid the media sh*tstorm? It'd simply delay it, surely.

I'm waiting for Deaker/Golightly/maybe Lonergan to get stuck in. Haven't heard anything yet - but I confess I haven't exactly been listening that closely.

Well, if he was named on a Tuesday to play, that would give the media a whole week to focus on him, and maybe even distract him and/or the team, and give fans time to get angry and hostile. If he is a surprise gameday selection, sure there could be a media blow up after the fact - but he could also score a hatrick and become flavour of the month... anything is possible, but the fact that he had already played could deflate the situation somewhat.

I wonder what Tony Vietch's take on this would be. I notice he didn't ask Shaun Berrigan about it this morning.
 

hitman82

Bench
Messages
4,937
There's a reasonable possibility the club has told all potential interviewers that it's a no-go discussion area. And I am certain the players aren't allowed to discuss it in the media.
 

mrblonde

Juniors
Messages
4
Hmmmmm..

Don't know it that flies these days...

If I was a journalist who was given a list of "thou shalt not discuss" topics by any club/team before any interview I'd seriously consider simply not interviewing the club/team in question.

Maybe the Warriors management have adopted a "we won't talk about it unless you talk about it" attitude. And I wouldn't expect the players to say anything about Shaun publicly other than in answer to "how's he fitting it?" etc etc ie rugby league playing questions.
 

Hooch

Juniors
Messages
1,096
For me, it's one of the big reasons I can't fully condemn the guy- I can't condemn someone for trying to kill their unborn, and at the same time say that other people should be free to do so. I can't rationalise that for myself, as much as the world wants me to.

That would be find, if he was carrying the child himself, and pounded himself in the guts to get rid of it...

Seriously you're a clown.. it's got to be one of the most vicious and stupid crimes I've heard of. Cutting someone up and putting them in a wheelie-bin is is as much an error of judgement due to pressure as this is.
 
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