More Proof that local juniors are obselete

[m0j0]

what I'm saying is that if you were a Newcastle fan & constantly saw your juniors being picked off by other clubs you'd be frustrated & angry & demanding changes to the system...

I don't know about angry. Maybe disappointed, but why be angry about it? I mean, do the fans take into consideration what these players want? I can kind of understand the hostility, but it's a little self-centred if you ask me.

Think about this scenario:

Until the age of 20, I lived in Tingira Heights, a suburb of Lake Macquarie. Had I played league instead of soccer I would have played at my local club - Valentine. It just so happens that this club falls under the Newcastle Juniors area and a number of very good players have come from this club. Regardless of my locality, I've always been a Roosters fan and my goal, as a player, would have been to play at the Roosters. If an opportunity were to come up, I would have jumped.
Why then should the Roosters be given a hard time for my decision?
I'm not saying this is always the case, but I wouldn't imagine it would never happen.

 

[Southernsaint]

RC, I put it to you that if you were a supporter of a club like Newcastle - rich in local talent but not wealthy, you'd have a vastly differing view.

so just because your born there your expected to play there?

what does newcastle provide to "develop" these kids? - nothing more than any other club.. coaching, facilities, comps etc.

the difference is that the culture of newcastle is that everyone plays league. Majority in the east plays union. thats why they "develop" better kids. they dont do much more than anyone else, especially if they club isnt wealthy.

someone said to try and get the east's private schools to switch from union to league.. well thats as tough as getting newcastle and penrith to switch to AFL, just ludicrous.

Lazza,

Congratulations on completely missing my point. For what it's worth, I don't completely disagree with Melon....'s point that juniors from a particular area are not bound to play for that area's NRL team; what I'm saying is that if you were a Newcastle fan & constantly saw your juniors being picked off by other clubs you'd be frustrated & angry & demanding changes to the system...

hello

so why not sign the juniors to a contract? so they cant be picked off?

the only logical reason is cos its risky, there is no guarantee that they will become good first graders.

Not all clubs can afford to have $1 million+ Jersery Flegg sides...

 

[Edwahu]

It makes sense that if the Knights have a budget to spend on contracting young players thats far less then that that of some bigger clubs then they are going to struggle to keep players. Any argument about the players going to certain clubs because of the coaching, environment etc are basically void while there are huge differences in the money been spent on contracts.

The fact is that there are still alot of clubs who actively concentrate on developing local players and take pride in the fact that they are giving kids from the area the opportunity to play in the NRL. Look at the pride the Roosters take in Ricketson. Its true that the Roosters success is forcing clubs to change their prioritys but I cant agree that the local junior is obsolete.

 

[lazza]

Not all clubs can afford to have $1 million+ Jersery Flegg sides...

so what your really saying is that you want a cap in jersey flegg as well?

i dont know how much we spend on flegg side.

 

[Edwahu]

The best solution would be if the poorer clubs could increase revenue but thats probably been put in the to hard basket.

 

[El Diablo]

Melon your bashing your head against a brick wall. These morons will never get it. This whole juniors debate is a load of crap. Who cares where players originally come from. Players know that if they go to the Roosters they are going to advance their careers and that's why Easts is such a desirable club. These young guys know that the Roosters will offer them the best coaches, training techniques and a very stable and successful environment. What's not to like. If I was a young player, I'd swim in shark infested waters if it meant getting a start at a brilliant club like the Roosters. The cretins can attack Easts as much as they like but at the end of the day it means SFA.

Then why does your filthy club wat a salary cap increase?

You idiots go on about crap saying you somehow fit all your players under the cap because they'll play for you for less money.

Funny how none of you can ever prove that.

 

[lazza]

You idiots go on about crap saying you somehow fit all your players under the cap because they'll play for you for less money.

Funny how none of you can ever prove that.

Funny how you cant prove that we're over.

 

[El Diablo]

You're the one's who make the claims, not others.

 

[oro]

As I said, I couldn't care less where a player comes from. The fact is that all clubs buy players including the clubs with huge nurseries. At least the Roosters have a bona fide reason to look outside their own area for players. If the powers that be want to give us a fair and equal area for us to build a decent local nursery then great but until that happens it's an uneven playing field. Souths stole Coogee and Randwick from us in the 50's and since then our junior area has been greatly limited. As I said at the end of the day it doesn't really matter.

Of course you don't care where a player comes from! Why should you; the NRL to date has failed to give recognition to the clubs that do actually produce local juniors on a regular basis - Knights, Panthers, Dragons, Raiders, Tigers, Sea Eagles and Eels.

Significant salary cap exemptions and reductions combined with a limit on the numbers of external players brought into a club will soon provide the recognition that is long overdue (and the incentive for clubs like the Roosters to invest heavily in their local competition).

 

[m0j0]

Oh, so it's just the Roosters? Of course let's all choose to ignore that four Bulldogs players have agreed to take pay cuts to play at Canterbury next year. Wasn't a similar thing stated at the Dragons earlier this year? I believe the Broncos also came out with this. Didn't K. Gidley take a lesser offer to stay at the Knights?

 

[lazza]

Of course you don't care where a player comes from! Why should you; the NRL to date has failed to give recognition to the clubs that do actually produce local juniors on a regular basis - Knights, Panthers, Dragons, Raiders, Tigers, Sea Eagles and Eels.

so what do these clubs do differently to produce local jnrs??

nothing... there is a strong league culture in those areas for high school kids.

and souths took some of our district areas, so how is it an equal playing field if you have bigger jnr bases than others. i mean if the panthers continue to win lots for the next 10 years and really start to dominate every game ... there'll be cries to spread the talent as panthers have all the good jnrs.

 

[El Diablo]

Oh, so it's just the Roosters? Of course let's all choose to ignore that four Bulldogs players have agreed to take pay cuts to play at Canterbury next year. Wasn't a similar thing stated at the Dragons earlier this year? I believe the Broncos also came out with this. Didn't K. Gidley take a lesser offer to stay at the Knights?

That's not what I'm on about. RC and a lot of your fans say people actually sign to play for your club than others offer them because everything is so great there.

 

[melon....]

Oh, so it's just the Roosters? Of course let's all choose to ignore that four Bulldogs players have agreed to take pay cuts to play at Canterbury next year. Wasn't a similar thing stated at the Dragons earlier this year? I believe the Broncos also came out with this. Didn't K. Gidley take a lesser offer to stay at the Knights?

That's not what I'm on about. RC and a lot of your fans say people actually sign to play for your club than others offer them because everything is so great there.

Thats right...issue?

 

[m0j0]

Oh, so it's just the Roosters? Of course let's all choose to ignore that four Bulldogs players have agreed to take pay cuts to play at Canterbury next year. Wasn't a similar thing stated at the Dragons earlier this year? I believe the Broncos also came out with this. Didn't K. Gidley take a lesser offer to stay at the Knights?

That's not what I'm on about. RC and a lot of your fans say people actually sign to play for your club than others offer them because everything is so great there.

So other players do it at their respective clubs because what...?

Is it because they're forced to? Is it because the mafia have one of the relatives hostage and will harm them if they don't agree to those terms. I'm sure they do it because conditions are great at those clubs also. They do it because they enjoy playing there. Same applies at the Roosters. But the conspiracy theorists amongst us will say that at the Roosters they do it because of the brown paper bags. Wouldn't the same have to apply at these other mentioned clubs if that were the case?

 

[lazza]

Some players want to join a club for the chance to win a championship.

Karl Malone and Gary Payton from the NBA joined the Lakers to try to win one on minimal salary.

Glenn Morrision, unfortunately, joined the eels to try and get a rep jumper. (i think he wishes he had of stayed now since they're doing so well)

some players may not want to go through another "rebuilding" phase to try to win one.

 

[El Diablo]

Then why do you want a cap iincrease?

You'd swear that players sign for the Roosters for free :roll:

 

[m0j0]

I've got no idea on that one El Duque, and I'm not particularly a supporter of it. Although, I can't see why a salary cap increase inline with CPI would be out of the question. Everyone would like a payrise to keep up with the cost of living increase. As long as every team is on the same cap, I don't have a problem with what the NRL chooses to do.

Challenging the cap in the courts is a stupid idea IMO, and I sincerely hope that it never comes to this.

 

[macavity]

so what your really saying is that you want a cap in jersey flegg as well?

yes, that is the whole point. It is the only way to provide a level playing field at NRL level.

i dont know how much we spend on flegg side.

According to my club, more than we spend on flegg and 1st div combined.

One of our rising superstars was offered 100k to play flegg (he is now in our top25 paid so we wouldn't lose him...), 2 years in a row... we spend that much on the entire team...

Anyone that can't see this makes a complete mockery out of the senior salary cap, let alone the NEED for NRL clubs to take some responsibility for the junior systems, obviously has their melon planted in their a*se....

Oh, and in the case of my club, the Knights, we effectively are an arm of the Newcastle Rugby League - the mob that run all of our junior comps.
So effectively, money that could be spent on the Knights (and paying flegg players inflated salaries...) is spent on developing kids for other teams to pinch. Fair, huh?

Maybe we should take a leaf out of the 'Roo$ters Big Book of Ethics' and sign them all to lifetime contracts at the age of 6.... just in case.

SALARY CAP ON LOWER GRADES NOW.

 

[oro]

Of course you don't care where a player comes from! Why should you; the NRL to date has failed to give recognition to the clubs that do actually produce local juniors on a regular basis - Knights, Panthers, Dragons, Raiders, Tigers, Sea Eagles and Eels.

so what do these clubs do differently to produce local jnrs??

nothing... there is a strong league culture in those areas for high school kids.

and souths took some of our district areas, so how is it an equal playing field if you have bigger jnr bases than others. i mean if the panthers continue to win lots for the next 10 years and really start to dominate every game ... there'll be cries to spread the talent as panthers have all the good jnrs.

So we're expected to believe that in one of the most highly populated (and popular) areas of Sydney, the Roosters cannot do better than a handful of junior clubs?

You're argument presents a solid case as to why the Roosters should be cut from the NRL!

Bring it on! Discounts for genuine local juniors, impose an external draft, reduce the cap and let natural attrition reduce the number of teams.

 

[greeneyed]

The junior argument IS obsolete...it is about prudent player retention and development these days.

Have a look at how Brian Smith has destroyed the INHERITED wealth that is the parra juniors! (some people think he created it, newsflash, parra won seven club champs on the trot in the late 70s and 80s WITHOUT Smith...on the back of these juniors)

fact is, a big junior base only helps in that you have the opportunity to pluck a lot more kids from under your nose ratehr than having to scour the country in the mode of beetson and co.

thats why its a compliment to beetson and the roosters that they have compiled these juniors despite not having the base under their nose....and an insult to the talents of people like smith, fitzy etc. who have them right in front of them and theoretically have first pick.

As much as i love to hate the roosters and dogs, i cant on this one....they are to be applauded on adapting their operations to the need for success. When faced with the deficiency in juniors which hampered them in the late 80s and early 90s and meant they couldnt keep up with clubs with large catchment areas (canberra and broncos spring to mind in that era), they just changed the way the game is played off the field to suit their resources and skills.

Oh well, have to save the rooster bash for an appropriate thread! ;-)

The teams who don't develop junior football are to be deplored. The Roosters are reviled on this point because they "invest" in it by simply buying juniors from the clubs that do actually develop their own juniors. If no club developed their juniors, there wouldn't be any.