Mullen The Great Myth

[Knight Vision]

Does anyone else see Sione as a long-term winger for the knights?

I don't really think he has anything to offer that he cant do from the wing. I must say, I think he has been massively over-hyped thus far

You come to that conclusion after the 18 yr old boy has played how many games of first grade ? and is the youngest kid ever to represent Australia .....ummm ok tell me some more of your thoughts......

 

[Joker's Wild]

He played at second row this week and as another poster said in the modern game second row and centre are interchangeable and I thought he was exposed majorly

and that poster, in this bloke opinion, was very wrong

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

and that poster, in this bloke opinion, was very wrong

Predicting the defensive capabilities of a bloke approaching 110kg, based on the performance of a 90kg, 18yo is not exactly fair for a final judgement....

Edit: actually, i was wrong. BJ is 111kg....

 

[aqua_duck]

Backrowers make anywhere between 30-50 tackles a game, centres make anywhere between 5-20 tackles a game, don't see how the positions are comparable, it's true that the fringe backrower plays one in from the centre in attack (and typically 2 in from the centre in defence), but the roles are different.

 

[TooheysNew]

Backrowers make anywhere between 30-50 tackles a game, centres make anywhere between 5-20 tackles a game, don't see how the positions are comparable, it's true that the fringe backrower plays one in from the centre in attack (and typically 2 in from the centre in defence), but the roles are different.

Defensively yes, absolutely. There are more tackles to be made. And yes, of course the position needs to be trained for. The skillsets of both positions are almost identical. That was my point.

 

[Chicken_Hunter]

I think the skill sets are entirely different especially in attack. A centre needs to be able to create space for his winger, be a lot more skillful on his feet, have a good draw and pass, a good in and away. you could say second rowers have this ability, but not many are as skillful as centres.

In defence centres need to make a lot of difficult decisions and need to be able to read plays very well, often they are caught in 2 on 3 situations which need to be shut down. Once again, second rowers need to make decisions in defence but it's usually not as often as a centre and more often than not second rowers are making more front on defence in 2-3 man tackles.

As has been said, second rowers make more tackles and make more of the tough hit ups. Yeah bj makes hit ups, but usually he's making one off a quick PTB coming out of our end. Second rowers make more hit ups and make the hard metres.

I think BJ would make a great back rower, but he needs an off season to be conditioned for it and then come off the bench for a while.

 

[Rudderriffic]

The skillsets of both positions are almost identical

The skill sets of successful centres of different styles aren't identical with one another, let alone identical with someone of a completely different position. Consider two pretty average centres who both play(ed) in the same era in Brad Tighe and Ben Pomeroy. Their skills are entirely different, the agility & speed of Tighe against the size and strength of Pomeroy. Very distinct skills from players in the same position, obviously a second rower is much more comparable to Pomeroy than Tighe in terms of skills.

Simply because teams have found success by selecting some centres whose only defining attacking trait is brute strength does not mean that the skill set of the position as a whole is identical to second row.

 

[aqua_duck]

Centres come in different forms with different skillsets, sure guys like Jamal Idris, BJ Leilua, Steve Matai and Tautau Moga could definitely play backrow but those guys are power runners, very different to the more traditional centre, I mean you'll never see Jamie Lyon, Jarrod Croker, Dane Gagai, Jennings, Dylan Walker, Tim Simona or SKD in the backrow, they're just not that kind of player and I think Sione is the same especially at 18 years of age

 

[Yosh]

I think SKD did play a little in the backrow did he know? We had Steve Simpson in the centres for a whole lol... Tony Carroll also played some games at centre. I'm sure BJ would go just fine at second row.

 

[The Showstopper]

The risk with BJ is his carries need plenty of improvement before he goes getting whacked by the big lads. apart from that I don't see an issue with him moving into the backrow.

 

[aqua_duck]

I think SKD did play a little in the backrow did he know? We had Steve Simpson in the centres for a whole lol... Tony Carroll also played some games at centre. I'm sure BJ would go just fine at second row.

I don't recall SKD ever playing backrow. Carroll started his career as a big centre but switched to the backrow as he got older and bigger, bit like David Kidwell

 

[Yosh]

I don't recall SKD ever playing backrow. Carroll started his career as a big centre but switched to the backrow as he got older and bigger, bit like David Kidwell

Ah okok. I remember Ruben Wiki was a winger no lol...

 

[Yosh]

I need something explained to me.

When I watch the great halves in the game, say JT or Cronk, I see them wanting the ball. They run to where the ball is and want it all the time. They don't stick to one side and wait for things to happen then get the ball. They run to where the ball is and call for it and want to do something with it.

Our halves on the other hand just wait somewhere and don't even seem to want the ball. Or they want the ball on certain sets when everything is set. Why are they coached to sit on different sides of the ruck? Is this coached into them?

 

[The Showstopper]

I need something explained to me.

When I watch the great halves in the game, say JT or Cronk, I see them wanting the ball. They run to where the ball is and want it all the time. They don't stick to one side and wait for things to happen then get the ball. They run to where the ball is and call for it and want to do something with it.

Our halves on the other hand just wait somewhere and don't even seem to want the ball. Or they want the ball on certain sets when everything is set. Why are they coached to sit on different sides of the ruck? Is this coached into them?

JT and Cronk have been both been given almost carte blanche to make the calls on field and be dominant about it. JT and Cronk are the sort of halves, like Joey before them, who would scream at their players for the ball and absolutely give them a gob full when they didn't get it. Mullen and Roberts are too worried about offending their mates. That is a huge issue with this club. the players are little too friendly and it takes away from their need to be the arsehole who stands up and speaks out and tells uncomfortable truths. As for the coaching it is really a case of the abiility of the players matching the ambition.Not everyone will agree but I think the Storm have it 100% correct by having Cronk, Smith and Slater define how the players behave both on and off field and making them very aware that a shit performance, even win they win, is a shit performance.

 

[perverse]

I don't think it's got to do with the friendliness of our halves - I think it's confidence. Neither of them have the confidence to demand the ball. Confidence is a big thing, Mullo has just about never had it... ditto Tyrone. They're not cocky enough or confident in themselves enough. This is a failure of the staff behind them. It was no surprise to me that Mullen played his best football under Wayne... I doubt Wayne did much more than have faith in him and shift him to his natural position.

Coming from Wayne Bennett, faith in your abilities is a pretty big boost to your ego. Mullen plays best when he's in charge of the team and just goes out there and plays what he sees. Has never, ever been the bloke to execute your gameplan... he's hit and miss at that at best and it confuses him... and it's really showing that Stone is filling their heads with too much info at the moment. Bennett had it right, keep it simple with these dumbasses and let the individual talent out wide do the flashy work when the time is right. Rugby League really isn't that complicated a game.

I still maintain that the best football we've played in the past decade, even if it was patchy, was under Bennett. He also did the best job of building our roster. Wasn't a popular opinion when Bennett walked out... but I believe it will be vindicated by Brisbane's performance this year and into the future. We will be the only club he failed at. The local hillbillies will still blame him, anyone with sense will come to the logical conclusion that we're the broken ones.

 

[Yosh]

My pet hate is having one 'half' on each side of the pitch. It's way too structured and limited.

Just on perverse's point: I think we played our best footy with Bedsy in the side. Not only have we lacked a real dominant half, we haven't even half replaced Bedsy. De Gois was always more of an impact hooker while we had some stupid back up plan Gidley or Darius or that fat Queenslander guy jump in here and there. Until we find or recruit or create a genuine hooker, we'll always struggle.

 

[Bring it home Knights]

Until we get a decent pack, it is hard to get a good gauge on our halves. Give us the Cowboys, Souths or Roosters forwards and I think we'd be saying very different things about our 6 and 7.

 

[perverse]

That's a fair point, Yosh... but I think it goes to show how much we lack a real leader on the field. Who was it that brought Buderus back to Newcastle, again? Dayne Dennett?

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

My pet hate is having one 'half' on each side of the pitch. It's way too structured and limited.

Just on perverse's point: I think we played our best footy with Bedsy in the side. Not only have we lacked a real dominant half, we haven't even half replaced Bedsy. De Gois was always more of an impact hooker while we had some stupid back up plan Gidley or Darius or that fat Queenslander guy jump in here and there. Until we find or recruit or create a genuine hooker, we'll always struggle.

This isnt actually a bad structure if its done well....

A half each side of the ruck means both should be setting up plays and moving the fowards around on every play the ball, so the dummyhalf has options either side of the field. The problem comes when the halves get too stuck in this and cant change it up when they need to. Nothing beats a big sweeping play where the halves come together.

 

[Joker's Wild]

The trend towards halves playing specific sides of the ruck is what lead to fullbacks becoming ball players. They are now often the 2nd receiver in back line plays