Mullen

[Rusty]

I have previously questioned his lack of kicking grubbers forcing a repeat set. I think he attempted one last week and it was a doozy. Question answered. I think people are entitled to ask questions if your 5/8 finds the task of kicking a grubber in the in-goal difficult. Basic skill for a playmaker.

 

[K-Man]

I think those that would say Mullen isn't up to it should have been equally strong in their conviction when he was winning man of the match earlier in the year, is all. back when the rest of his team was still having a dig.

To be fair Perverse, I think it can be very difficult around here to state a negative opinion about a player at a time when he is going through something of a purple patch by his own standards.

Last year I posted rational arguments for why I couldn't see Hilder or Naiqama as part of the future, even though they were playing okay at the time (both highly overrated I thought), and I was absolutely slayed for it.

Some people can't handle it when your rating of a player is based on more than the most recent 3 games of football. I saw major deficiencies in Hilder and Naiqama that were not going to go away just because they were trying hard and doing ok (looking for a contract, unsurprisingly).

I imagine all of us have opinions on certain players that we maintain based on far more than a few good or bad weeks, but of course it is much easier and more understandable to voice those opinions when current form suggests your belief is correct.

You and I are Taia fans, but I feel a lot less like coming on here singing his praises after a bad game, it's just human nature.

Likewise with Mullen, my concerns don't go away when he plays well. I'm happy for him to play well and us to win because I'm a Knights fan. And I will praise him for it. But at the same time, if you asked me at any point in the last few years what I really thought of him overall, I'd have said that I just don't think he will ever reach the heights we might want him to.

If Mullen was our Gareth Widdop I'd have absolutely no problem with him whatsoever. And you're right, he does earn a salary commensurate with his value to the team. But he's our go-to man and unfortunately he just isn't up to leading a team deep into the finals.

 

[Big Tim]

I miss Kurt almost as much as Mullo does...... just sayin.

 

[Jobdog]

The problem with Jarrod? Ever since he came into first grade everyone was talking him up as "The Next Joey" which was never going to happen and it was unrealistic of us to expect him to be even half the player Joey was.

That's not a slight on Jarrod at all, but the media put him up on a pedestal he never asked to be put on and subsequently he hasn't lived up to it. He shouldn't have had to. How can we all expect him to "lead the team around the park" when he's not a halfback and plays his best footy standing wider at five-eighth?

If, and it's a big if, we manage to land a decent halfback such as a Mitchell Pearce, he'll go a lot better.

 

[justagamemate]

I would like to see Mullen and Gidley play a full season in the halves.
Soward and Hornby weren't world beaters they still managed a premiership.

 

[perverse]

Lol. You are so precious worse then a chick on her monthlies.

You're right, I'm 10 times worse than a chick on the blob. I am one seriously unpleasant f**ker. Precious? Not sure. I'm addicted to calling out other peoples bullshit, though.

To be fair Perverse, I think it can be very difficult around here to state a negative opinion about a player at a time when he is going through something of a purple patch by his own standards.

Last year I posted rational arguments for why I couldn't see Hilder or Naiqama as part of the future, even though they were playing okay at the time (both highly overrated I thought), and I was absolutely slayed for it.

Some people can't handle it when your rating of a player is based on more than the most recent 3 games of football. I saw major deficiencies in Hilder and Naiqama that were not going to go away just because they were trying hard and doing ok (looking for a contract, unsurprisingly).

I imagine all of us have opinions on certain players that we maintain based on far more than a few good or bad weeks, but of course it is much easier and more understandable to voice those opinions when current form suggests your belief is correct.

You and I are Taia fans, but I feel a lot less like coming on here singing his praises after a bad game, it's just human nature.

Likewise with Mullen, my concerns don't go away when he plays well. I'm happy for him to play well and us to win because I'm a Knights fan. And I will praise him for it. But at the same time, if you asked me at any point in the last few years what I really thought of him overall, I'd have said that I just don't think he will ever reach the heights we might want him to.

If Mullen was our Gareth Widdop I'd have absolutely no problem with him whatsoever. And you're right, he does earn a salary commensurate with his value to the team. But he's our go-to man and unfortunately he just isn't up to leading a team deep into the finals.

I didn't intend to say it wasn't difficult. Just because something isn't easy, doesn't mean it isn't worthwhile. I think that's pretty much half of the point that I was making... that those that bag Mullen are indeed gutless, and won't take the issue on in a climate where he's playing well.

Kudos for your thoughts on Wes and Hilder. I can't say either way, and I'm not going to go digging through a years worth of forum posts, however I will certainly say I was happy enough to re-sign Wes at the time - although would have gone either way on that one really. I've been quoted as saying I hoped Hilder was a Knight for life. Things change. My opinion of Hilder as a player really hasn't changed at all, I think he's a great footy player, but he doesn't fit into the puzzle here anymore. I, and most people, thought he would be the perfect Bennett-type player. His transformation has been the most startling for me. Wes, well he can play much better football than he's displaying now. Pretty clear to me he's not happy at all with his footy at the moment - but I don't care too much either way on Wes to get in an argument about him. You know, all I really ask is that people people back up their assertions with rationality and reasoning. That way it can be debated. When people post baseless crap, or just say "don't rate this player, get rid of him"... or even worse continue with a baseless agenda over time, then I'm going to put the grill on them.

I will voice my opinion on a player regardless of how they are playing week to week, and I do. I've stuck up for Zeb ad nauseum this year, and I still believe he's a fantastic player. I'm still pretty gutted that he's leaving... but once again, circumstances change. He clearly hasn't bought into, or simply doesn't fit Bennetts syle of coaching and football. He's also not been the same since his surgery, although at times he really has been great this year, too. He has put a lot more good minutes on the field than many others in our squad. Perhaps I dont' start a thread buffing Zebs c**k after he turns in a shocker, but if the subject comes up, I'll go in to bat for Zeb any day of the week. Having said that, I generally don't start threads pushing my own agendas, period.

... and lastly to Mullen again. do you not think it's absurd to consider kicking out a bloke who, by your own admission, is getting paid about what he's worth to the team. a bloke who bleeds red and blue and tries his guts out every game he plays. a local junior with genuine skill, pace and flair when given the opportunity. don't you think it's a bit ridiculous to try and push him out of the equation when he's the best half we have and the best half available? couldn't you possibly agree with me that it's a better idea to have a look at how we can utilize him properly, and fill in the deficiencies elsewhere - like at halfback for example... which to date appears to be exactly what Bennett himself is trying to achieve? also don't discount the fact that Mullen and Boyd are slowly but surely beginning to combine well.

all in all. it's just f**king nonsense. getting rid of Mullo now, or even next year is just total nonsense as far as i'm concerned. I call it as such, and as yet... no-one has given me any sort of reason to think otherwise.

 

[--Storm--]

If Mullen was our Gareth Widdop I'd have absolutely no problem with him whatsoever. And you're right, he does earn a salary commensurate with his value to the team. But he's our go-to man and unfortunately he just isn't up to leading a team deep into the finals.

I'd have no problem's with him either if he was playing 2nd fiddle to a gun half back or 5 / 8 but his not, his ment to be there number 1 play maker

 

[perverse]

Mullen is the third highest paid playmaker in our club behind Gidley and Boyd. why is the onus on him to create everything? and steer the team? and do EVERYTHING else?

Gidley is being paid to be our number 1 playmaker when he is on the field. which he hasn't been consistently for us in quite a while.

 

[Jono078]

Id never say to cut Mullen or kick him out.

He always shows signs of being a top half, especially early this year.

Once Bennett fixes the rest of the team around him let's see what he can do.

But, he is easily one of the most frustrating players for us, although I'm not prepared to say that this year, even though his KOTW points have slowed down, he's still in our top 5 players each week for effort and trying and being solid all round.

 

[K-Man]

You're right, I'm 10 times worse than a chick on the blob. I am one seriously unpleasant f**ker. Precious? Not sure. I'm addicted to calling out other peoples bullshit, though.

I didn't intend to say it wasn't difficult. Just because something isn't easy, doesn't mean it isn't worthwhile. I think that's pretty much half of the point that I was making... that those that bag Mullen are indeed gutless, and won't take the issue on in a climate where he's playing well.

Kudos for your thoughts on Wes and Hilder. I can't say either way, and I'm not going to go digging through a years worth of forum posts, however I will certainly say I was happy enough to re-sign Wes at the time - although would have gone either way on that one really. I've been quoted as saying I hoped Hilder was a Knight for life. Things change. My opinion of Hilder as a player really hasn't changed at all, I think he's a great footy player, but he doesn't fit into the puzzle here anymore. I, and most people, thought he would be the perfect Bennett-type player. His transformation has been the most startling for me. Wes, well he can play much better football than he's displaying now. Pretty clear to me he's not happy at all with his footy at the moment - but I don't care too much either way on Wes to get in an argument about him. You know, all I really ask is that people people back up their assertions with rationality and reasoning. That way it can be debated. When people post baseless crap, or just say "don't rate this player, get rid of him"... or even worse continue with a baseless agenda over time, then I'm going to put the grill on them.

I will voice my opinion on a player regardless of how they are playing week to week, and I do. I've stuck up for Zeb ad nauseum this year, and I still believe he's a fantastic player. I'm still pretty gutted that he's leaving... but once again, circumstances change. He clearly hasn't bought into, or simply doesn't fit Bennetts syle of coaching and football. He's also not been the same since his surgery, although at times he really has been great this year, too. He has put a lot more good minutes on the field than many others in our squad. Perhaps I dont' start a thread buffing Zebs c**k after he turns in a shocker, but if the subject comes up, I'll go in to bat for Zeb any day of the week. Having said that, I generally don't start threads pushing my own agendas, period.

... and lastly to Mullen again. do you not think it's absurd to consider kicking out a bloke who, by your own admission, is getting paid about what he's worth to the team. a bloke who bleeds red and blue and tries his guts out every game he plays. a local junior with genuine skill, pace and flair when given the opportunity. don't you think it's a bit ridiculous to try and push him out of the equation when he's the best half we have and the best half available? couldn't you possibly agree with me that it's a better idea to have a look at how we can utilize him properly, and fill in the deficiencies elsewhere - like at halfback for example... which to date appears to be exactly what Bennett himself is trying to achieve? also don't discount the fact that Mullen and Boyd are slowly but surely beginning to combine well.

all in all. it's just f**king nonsense. getting rid of Mullo now, or even next year is just total nonsense as far as i'm concerned. I call it as such, and as yet... no-one has given me any sort of reason to think otherwise.

I accept all of that mate. It's what a forum is all about and even when I sent my post I figured you would be back at with me a quality reply that made me think about it some more anyway.

I absolutely love Zeb and I've always wished more people felt the same way. A skillful forward in our pack of nuffies stands out like a beacon as far as I'm concerned, but a few missed tackles and suddenly most fans were hating on him.

Anyway, back to Mullen. I certainly don't think he should be dropped or anything crazy like that. He is the best we have, 100 per cent agreed.

And no it's not his fault that he earns far less than Boyd or Gidley yet is burdened with expectation. I suppose in the end it comes down to a combination of frustration at how slowly he improves aspects of his game (if at all) and the way our club has always used him.

It's not his problem the club has never admitted he is an okay five-eighth rather than a quality halfback in the making, but as a fan it is very frustrating to feel like year after year you basically know what you are going to get... and then you get it.

Right now I don't even have a solution (bar the obvious - just buy somebody better next year). But in terms of practical solutions for the short-term future, I don't have any because Jarrod's all we've got.

However, despite his salary I think he still needs to be held responsible for an ability to develop over the years. Improvement would have led to him being worth more.

There's only so long arguments about the pressure of being the next Joey or playing behind a beaten pack can hold water. The guy has been around ages, through some okay times and not-so-good ones, with forwards doing their job and on other occasions getting steamrolled.

But no career can be defined by excuses like that - he has countless chances to say 'I'm a big game player, I can step up' with his actions rather than his words to the Herald.

In the end my opinion is simply this (without any malice toward the man himself, who I constantly hope will come out and have an absolute blinder): We won't end up where Bennett wants us to if Mullen is best/most important playmaker in the side. There are too many examples of him failing to deliver under pressure, I highly doubt he will ever be much more than what he is at the moment.

If the answer is to splash the cash on a high-quality halfback for Mullen to play outside of, then I'm all for it.

But I'm pretty sick of hearing that another half is not the answer; that our forwards are the only reason for our problems over 5 or 6 years. A dominant organiser would still be able to take games by the scruff of the neck or come up with the right plays when given his opportunities, even if those opportunities were few and far between.

 

[perverse]

Mullen has definitely developed his game over the years. his long kicking game is one of the best, and his short kicking game is clearly coming along too. he is choosing the wrong times to use his short kicks at the moment - but at some stage some blame needs to be on the players receiving his kicks. our kick chase is DIRE at times, and we do not have a single bloke in the team capable of getting under a high ball and making something out of it in attack. the blame always falls onto Mullen for these kicks, but he's not doing anything different to any other half in the comp. the difference is the other halves have blokes under them that can make something of it. the vast, vast majority of Mullens cross field kicks, be they bombs or chips, land in the perfect area between in-goal and in-field, the grey area where the defense can't quite get a clean in-goal mark on the ball. we NEVER, EVER take advantage of these kicks. we are the worst in the league at it, bar none... and have been for years.

his defensive game has obviously come along in leaps and bounds, too... to the point where he is now a good to great defender. yes, i say that in spite of he and Houstons lapse to let in the Thompson try on the weekend. Jarrod has lifted his game massively in this department. it was only earlier this year he sat Fui Fui on his arse 4 or 5 times in a row.

his running game is about where it has always been. dangerous when the team is moving forward. his passing game has always been technically good, and with Boyd in the team he is getting better at picking which pass, when... too.

if you can't see the improvements, you're just not looking, or they're not in the areas you're demanding in my opinion.

I don't think Bennett will ever demand Mullen be the organiser of the team. this is his real weakness, and Bennett had that picked within a month. i agree with you that we need a dominant organiser. we have needed this for years, and to be honest aside from last year where Mullen was actually looking pretty good in the #7 for large patches, i think everyone and his dog has been wanting a real halfback inside him since Johns retired. It's not our fault, nor Mullos that every coach he has had has tried to systematically destroy his career playing him out of position and with a different partner every month. the fans have been able to see he's a 5/8th since Joey retired, for some reason the blokes paid to see this shit, couldn't.

Yes, he has had chances to step up and say he's a big game player and he hasn't. He's had like 3. 1 was an origin game, out of position, when he was 19. his team has done him no favours in the others, either. he may never be the big game match winner, but that doesn't mean he's not a good player, and it doesn't mean we don't need him now and moving forward either.

if he's never anything more than what he is at the moment, then we can work with that. nay, we actually HAVE to work with that, because he's the best we've got. put a real halfback inside him, and everything would be sweet in the halves. I don't know if Gidley can fill this role. I don't know what Wayne is thinking for our halves, but I'd bet ditching Mullen isn't high on his list. I think you'll find that Mullen can be a lot more than he currently is - just like every other player in our team. I believe Wayne can get us there, too.

you've lost me at the last breathe big time. our forwards have been a massive, massive problem of ours for years. they are still a drama now... and any backline is going to be less potent... right down to full blown impotent if behind beaten forwards.

 

[perverse]

Mullen could actually play successfully in any position of the backline 1 -> 6... as a few people have been alluding to lately (i know JM has said fullback a couple of times). my main conjecture with this in the short-mid term is that it would weaken our halves to the point of taking the piss. with Gidley out for the year, moving Mullen anywhere would be stupid... particularly as the rest of the team around him is playing like they don't want to be there for 60 minutes of every match. next year, Mullen and Gidley would be my pick, and try and see if we can get them a full year together. i could see Gidley playing a Hornby type role, and Mullen a Soward type role. looking any further ahead than that, i think i'd be having a good hard crack at Mitchell Pearce. Mullen and Pearce in the halves with Boyd at the back and Gids at hooker could be awesome. it's probably somewhere between $1.5mill-$2mill a year for that spine, though. Gidley is overpaid. Boyd is probably a bit overpaid, although i don't know how much of his salary is actually under the cap and how much is third party. god knows how much Pearce is going to be demanding on the open market, state of origin halfback... his numbers will get into silly territory very quickly.

 

[The Showstopper]

Go all in for Pearce. Can't help but think we will. Within reason though. I'd remind Pearce he has to date, a 13% win record at origin level when they pull the rep card to inflate his value. Hasn't looked close to dominant in 7 games. He may yet but he is a superb club half regardless.

 

[Rod]

Not really a criticism of Mullen as I do like him, but he could learn something from Johnson's kicking tonight. Wow it was great to watch. Bombed when it was on and landed them all pretty much on the goal line, grubbered when it was on and got numerous repeat sets. So good for such a young kid.

And if anyone ever needed convincing of the value of a one-two punch from your starting props, look no further than Matulino and Packer tonight. Outstanding.

More a Warriors-related post than a Knights one I guess but those two things are things that we are really lacking at the moment.

 

[justagamemate]

Those who think Bennett would move Mullen to centre are living in crazyland.
Boyd moving to 6 is not even likely either.

 

[Apey]

Mullen has definitely developed his game over the years. his long kicking game is one of the best, and his short kicking game is clearly coming along too. he is choosing the wrong times to use his short kicks at the moment - but at some stage some blame needs to be on the players receiving his kicks. our kick chase is DIRE at times, and we do not have a single bloke in the team capable of getting under a high ball and making something out of it in attack. the blame always falls onto Mullen for these kicks, but he's not doing anything different to any other half in the comp. the difference is the other halves have blokes under them that can make something of it. the vast, vast majority of Mullens cross field kicks, be they bombs or chips, land in the perfect area between in-goal and in-field, the grey area where the defense can't quite get a clean in-goal mark on the ball. we NEVER, EVER take advantage of these kicks. we are the worst in the league at it, bar none... and have been for years.

his defensive game has obviously come along in leaps and bounds, too... to the point where he is now a good to great defender. yes, i say that in spite of he and Houstons lapse to let in the Thompson try on the weekend. Jarrod has lifted his game massively in this department. it was only earlier this year he sat Fui Fui on his arse 4 or 5 times in a row.

his running game is about where it has always been. dangerous when the team is moving forward. his passing game has always been technically good, and with Boyd in the team he is getting better at picking which pass, when... too.

if you can't see the improvements, you're just not looking, or they're not in the areas you're demanding in my opinion.

I don't think Bennett will ever demand Mullen be the organiser of the team. this is his real weakness, and Bennett had that picked within a month. i agree with you that we need a dominant organiser. we have needed this for years, and to be honest aside from last year where Mullen was actually looking pretty good in the #7 for large patches, i think everyone and his dog has been wanting a real halfback inside him since Johns retired. It's not our fault, nor Mullos that every coach he has had has tried to systematically destroy his career playing him out of position and with a different partner every month. the fans have been able to see he's a 5/8th since Joey retired, for some reason the blokes paid to see this shit, couldn't.

Yes, he has had chances to step up and say he's a big game player and he hasn't. He's had like 3. 1 was an origin game, out of position, when he was 19. his team has done him no favours in the others, either. he may never be the big game match winner, but that doesn't mean he's not a good player, and it doesn't mean we don't need him now and moving forward either.

if he's never anything more than what he is at the moment, then we can work with that. nay, we actually HAVE to work with that, because he's the best we've got. put a real halfback inside him, and everything would be sweet in the halves. I don't know if Gidley can fill this role. I don't know what Wayne is thinking for our halves, but I'd bet ditching Mullen isn't high on his list. I think you'll find that Mullen can be a lot more than he currently is - just like every other player in our team. I believe Wayne can get us there, too.

you've lost me at the last breathe big time. our forwards have been a massive, massive problem of ours for years. they are still a drama now... and any backline is going to be less potent... right down to full blown impotent if behind beaten forwards.

I agree with most of what you said although I'd still be interested to see the stats regarding repeat sets if there's any flying around?

edit: annoying nrl stats keeps scrum stats but not drop-outs.

 

[Jono078]

1 Boyd
2 Uate
3 Mullen
4 Gagai
5 McManus
6 Will Smith
7 Brett Finch

 

[perverse]

Johnson is a phenomenal talent. it's going to be interesting to see which way NZ go with Benji, Foran and Johnson.

why has Finchy been getting so much love lately?

 

[Nuffy]

I've criticized the bloke before now but give him a break, he has spent most of his career behind a pack that has been rubbish.

DCE, Johnson et al have benefitted from agressive dominant packs, Mullen has been playing behind cats most of the time.

Johns was the only halfback who could handle a underperforming pack.

I suspect that Bennett knows that until he fixes his forwards problem, the rest is a waste of time.

 

[Jono078]

Johnson is a phenomenal talent. it's going to be interesting to see which way NZ go with Benji, Foran and Johnson.

why has Finchy been getting so much love lately?

Sorry, I've been a one man band pushing the Finch agenda

I just think he's a good fit for us.