Nba 08/09

[Tiger Hawk]

A fairly even handed take on last week's games in New York.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3896242

This has also reminded me of the game against the Magic in January. In the first half, we watched as the Magic steadily double-teamed him so Kobe willingly deferred to his teammates and watched the Lakers build a double-digit lead. I remember thinking that if the Lakers play this way against every team, they're unbeatable. Kobe keeps everyone involved yet just plays in the flow and gets his points as well.

Anyway, through some outrageous shots and good fortune to start the third quarter (and a moribund performance from Bynum), the Magic clawed their way back into the game and ended up tying the game. At this point, Kobe's stat line was 12 points (on 6-8 shooting - all jump shots), 7 rebounds & 8 assists.

Kobe then decided to try and beat the Magic 1 on 5. Good news first, he ended up with a triple double, scoring 28 points. But it took him 26 shots to get there. His final shooting percentage was 38% (10-26), and whilst at least one of those attempts was a desperation 3 at the buzzer, it shows that he took 18 shots in about the last 16 minutes of action. That's insane!

Point is, when the pressure's on, he morphs into "me against the world" Kobe, much to the detriment of his team. Sometimes he'll score 61 (or 81). Sometimes they'll win. But there's no way I can believe it would be fun to be his teammate.

And if it's true about him shooting Ariza a look after Ariza made a 3, when Ariza just might be the difference maker come the Finals (assuming they make it), it's absolutely staggering.

Quickly back onto Shaq, a trade I'd love to see is Shaq (& his $20m contract) to the Cavs for Wally & Snow's expiring contracts ($13m & $7m respectively). Why the Cavs would do it - they get a reliable low post scorer who can come in against the second team and whose defensive deficiencies are covered by Wallace and an all around better defensive unit. Plus his contract comes off the book in 2010 so they're not taking any unnecessarily long contracts back hindering their chance to re-sign LeBron that summer. Why they wouldn't - would Shaq be happy coming off the bench for 15 minutes a night (for a chance at a ring I think he would)? The front-court then becomes crowded with Z, Shaq, Wallace, Varejao & promising rookie Hickson all vying for minutes. Defence is still an issue. Would Shaq put them over the top (I think yes)? Could they get more, preferably shooters?

Would the Suns do it? Move Shaq for expiring plus a pick, move Amare as well for some more expiring contracts and picks, makes sense if they're rebuilding. They know there wouldn't be much more out there for him, given he's on the line for $20m next year.

 

[Ridders]

I think that analysis is a bit unfair on Kobe. While no doubt he bothced the Orlando game, to say its a representation of how he's played this entire season would be wrong.

Example, in the game on the road against the Spurs, when the Lakers were trailing in the 4th, the Spurs went to double team Kobe in the back-court. Every single time they did it, Kobe would immediately switch the ball to an open Josh Powell (of all people), who would then make the jumper. This happened three times in a row until the Spurs stopped double-teaming Kobe in the back-court. Then, when the game was on the line, with the Lakers trailing by 1, Kobe was again double-teamed. Instead of taking the shot on with two players in his face, he passed the ball on to an open Ariza, who was then judged to have travelled while trying to get to the rim.

While it doesn't exactly exonerate Kobe, to say Kobe hasn't come along way in terms of being a team player, from the Kobe of 05/06 and 06/07, is wrong. His assist numbers have been relatively good this season and his shooting % is at an all time high, indicating that he's picking his spots better. While he still has the occasional game where he will go spastic, i think he's been very controlled for a majority of the games this season.

I think its going to be hard to trade Shaq. Given the economic climate, not too many owners are going to want to take $40mill in salary over 2 years. Only teams would be, as you said, contendors like Cleveland who realistically believe they can win it all THIS season. Stoudermire would be the easier one to move, although i think it would be a wrong move. If your in a rebuilding mode, surely you would rather build around a young stud like Amarie rather than veterans like Nash and Shaq.

 

[Tiger Hawk]

Well I didn't say it was a representation of his season. I also believe, on the whole, he's been a better teammate this year. But from 2003 to 2008 he would not have been very fun to play with. And considering that was his starting point, the only way to go was up this year! He wants his cake and to eat it too - he wants to be THE MAN on a winning team. But as long as the team is winning because of HIM and everybody knows it.

 

[Ridders]

Well I didn't say it was a representation of his season. I also believe, on the whole, he's been a better teammate this year. But from 2003 to 2008 he would not have been very fun to play with. And considering that was his starting point, the only way to go was up this year! He wants his cake and to eat it too - he wants to be THE MAN on a winning team. But as long as the team is winning because of HIM and everybody knows it.

Of course Kobe wants to be the MAN on the winning team, remind me again why Shaq is fading into obscurity in Phoenix. I'm pretty sure that if the Lakers are winning, Kobe will automatically get alot of the credit, just as any franchise player would. I don't see what point your trying to make.

I thinks its stupid to say that Bill Simmons hates Kobe. But to say that he isn't a LBJ fan boy would be misleading. The guy constantly tries to jam it down readers throats that Lebron is without question a better player than Kobe. To be fair to him, he isn't the only one on ESPN.

 

[Ridders]

How bout that game between Indiana and Cleveland. Score is 93-93 with 20 seconds to go. T.J Ford makes a 17 foot-jumper. Indiana leads, 95-93. Then with 0.4 seconds left in the 4th quarter, Lebron gets a "superstar" call as Granger is judged to have fouled him. Now at this point i'm spewing cause i always thought that refs never decide the outcome of games. Lebron, to his credit, knocks down both freethrows to make in 95-95 with 0.4 seconds left in regulation.

Then get this, as Indiana inbounds the ball, Lebron gets an equally BS call against him as he is adjudged to have fouled Danny Granger with 0.2 seconds left :lol::lol::lol:. Just like to point out that at this moment i'm lol'ling quite hard. Granger then makes the first free-throw to give Indiana a 96-95 lead. He then intentionally missed the 2nd free throw and its game over.

 

[Tiger Hawk]

Of course Kobe wants to be the MAN on the winning team, remind me again why Shaq is fading into obscurity in Phoenix. I'm pretty sure that if the Lakers are winning, Kobe will automatically get alot of the credit, just as any franchise player would. I don't see what point your trying to make.

I thinks its stupid to say that Bill Simmons hates Kobe. But to say that he isn't a LBJ fan boy would be misleading. The guy constantly tries to jam it down readers throats that Lebron is without question a better player than Kobe. To be fair to him, he isn't the only one on ESPN.

Sorry, I didn't phrase that very well. I meant as long as he gets ALL the attention, the press, everything. He's not happy sharing the spotlight. Not all franchise players are like that. Kobe has a single minded drive to be known as the best, and for a long time that was irrespective of whether his team won or lost. He's starting to become more comfortable sharing it, but only time will tell.

Oh, and Shaq just made his 15th All Star team, so wouldn't say he's fading into obscurity just yet.

 

[Ridders]

Sorry, I didn't phrase that very well. I meant as long as he gets ALL the attention, the press, everything. He's not happy sharing the spotlight. Not all franchise players are like that. Kobe has a single minded drive to be known as the best, and for a long time that was irrespective of whether his team won or lost. He's starting to become more comfortable sharing it, but only time will tell.

Oh, and Shaq just made his 15th All Star team, so wouldn't say he's fading into obscurity just yet.

Fair enough, can't really argue with that. I was referring to the fact that Shaq doesn't look like mounting a title challenege any time soon.

 

[Tonearm Terrorwrist]

lol ... lakers

they haven't won a ring since Shaq left them

 

[Ridders]

lol ... lakers

they haven't won a ring since Shaq left them

Good point. As for those Pacers ummmm......:lol:.

 

[Tonearm Terrorwrist]

yeah, well i'm not the glory hunter who's only interested in a team because theoretically they'll win more often than not

 

[Ridders]

yeah, well i'm not the glory hunter who's only interested in a team because theoretically they'll win more often than not

Yeh, thats so been the case from 2004-2007. So much winning in that period.

 

[Tonearm Terrorwrist]

i'll help you out ridders

yeah, well i'm not the glory hunter who's only interested in a team because theoretically they'll win more often than not

hey,whatever floats your boat ... but you don't give me sh*t about indiana's lack of success when you support the biggest brand in the NBA just because they ARE the biggest brand

i'm happy with the pacers ... they were team way back then when we had double D and rik smits and reggie miller and they're my team today

back on point

you haven't done sh*t since Shaq left except for a case of "close but no cigar" ... and Shaq got a ring out in miami ... Shaq was the BOSS

 

[Ridders]

Lol settle down champ, I think your taking my jibe a bit too seriously. You stated the Lakers lack of success and i merely returned serve. I don't have anything against Indiana, hell i kinda grew a soft spot for them after the Brawl at the Palace, destroyed their entire season.

Sure we haven't done anything since Shaq left, but there's still time to rectify that.

 

[Tonearm Terrorwrist]

and yet this whole time i thought all i was doing was highlighting how shaq was the man ... hence, you know, why i said you'd done nothing since shaq left ... zero relevance to anything pacers related

then you took it like a bitch made androtop and thought that was a jibe at the lakers as a whole

you're too defensive ... go rub one out and calm down

 

[Tiger Hawk]

How bout that game between Indiana and Cleveland. Score is 93-93 with 20 seconds to go. T.J Ford makes a 17 foot-jumper. Indiana leads, 95-93. Then with 0.4 seconds left in the 4th quarter, Lebron gets a "superstar" call as Granger is judged to have fouled him. Now at this point i'm spewing cause i always thought that refs never decide the outcome of games. Lebron, to his credit, knocks down both freethrows to make in 95-95 with 0.4 seconds left in regulation.

Then get this, as Indiana inbounds the ball, Lebron gets an equally BS call against him as he is adjudged to have fouled Danny Granger with 0.2 seconds left :lol::lol::lol:. Just like to point out that at this moment i'm lol'ling quite hard. Granger then makes the first free-throw to give Indiana a 96-95 lead. He then intentionally missed the 2nd free throw and its game over.

Looks like he sorted out that jump shot though - 15 of 21, 13 of 14 fts, and 4 of 7 3s.

How can you laugh at a side losing when they're not playing your team though? I don't really like Dallas for instance, but I don't take joy in them losing games, especially games that have dodgy endings. Or is it just an extension of Kobe vs Lebron.

 

[Ridders]

I have to admit, you sure can entertain a guy when he's bored. As you say, i'll go run one out.

 

[Ridders]

Looks like he sorted out that jump shot though - 15 of 21, 13 of 14 fts, and 4 of 7 3s.

How can you laugh at a side losing when they're not playing your team though? I don't really like Dallas for instance, but I don't take joy in them losing games, especially games that have dodgy endings. Or is it just an extension of Kobe vs Lebron.

Has very little to do with Lebron. More the fact that the refs made TWO critical (bad) calls, one for each team, in the LAST second of the game, when they allegedly don't determine the outcome of games. Can't really remember the last time i saw such a thing.

 

[Tiger Hawk]

Fair enough, it's just you were laughing when the took a rebounud away from him and now laughing on that call, just seemed a bit childish is all.

 

[Noa]

Forget about LBJ, Kobe or D12, Ramon Sessions is the man. Look at his numbers over the last 5 games and the Bucks have been on fire, a much better team without Michael Redd.

44 pts, 12 asts, 5 rbs......................... (FT: 18/21)
26 pts 7 asts, 4 rbs, 4 stls, 1 blk.......... (FT: 10/12)
20 pts, 7 asts, 4 rbs, 1 stl.................. (FT: 4/5)
19 pts, 6 asts, 3 rbs, 4 stls................. (FT: 9/10)
15 pts, 17 asts, 7 rbs, 2 stls................(FT: 9/13) *

 

[Tiger Hawk]

Heat and Raptors agree to trade Matrix & Banks for O'Neal and Moon. In a strange way this works for both teams I think, Raptors get a big man who has a pulse (albeit he's close to life support these days) plus Moon, who I think will replace a lot of what Matrix does anyway.

With Bargnani showing signs of life recently, for the Raps to get out from O'Neal's last year was a lot easier. They're clearly not making the playoffs so may as well shed some salary and see what they can do in the off-season.