NBA Season 2010-2011

[Ridders]

I wouldn't call him soft. He just doesn't have the physical or mental strength to consistently be the focal point of the LA team over a long period of time. Nothing wrong with that, and that's not what I expect from him.

That's what Kobe's there for ;-)

 

[ByRd]

I think it's a bit rich to turn on Gasol and call him soft when it's fairly well accepted he's the reason the Lakers have made three straight Finals and won back-to-back titles. But that's just me.

Gasol was a major part but to say he is the reason is a bit of a stretch, if Kobe wasnt there that team wont win any titles, i think people really under state how much Kobe means to LA and what he does for them, he brings it every night and even if his playing crap he still tries his hardest, Gasol has nights off and like Ridders said is weak mentally, the guy needs to grow a pair.

 

[Tonearm Terrorwrist]

I think Gasol was more of a reason the Lakers have done so well than Kobe as he is the Shaq to the Kobe, to put an unfair comparison in, and they both feed off each other and LA needed those points in the paint, big time rebounds and physical presence which they didn't have Kobe was struggling big time with that team on his back - not from a personal point of view he was dropping big numbers per game but it wasn't doing much for the team. No Gasol no rings. I don't think Bynum would have been able to do it on his own. Look at in reverse and imagine Ewing's Knicks with somebody better than Mason, ie Reggie Miller, they'd both have that elusive ring and probably rings.

On a side note I am so glad that Jim O'Brien had his ass fired even if it was 18 months too late.

 

[andrew057]

I wouldn't call him soft. He just doesn't have the physical or mental strength to consistently be the focal point of the LA team over a long period of time. Nothing wrong with that, and that's not what I expect from him.

That's what Kobe's there for ;-)

We saw how good that worked before Gasol was traded there.

 

[Ridders]

On a side note I am so glad that Jim O'Brien had his ass fired even if it was 18 months too late.

And the Pacers won in their first game since his firing.

I wonder if the change will help Hibbert out. Seemed to struggle to find minutes under O'Brien in recent times.

 

[Tiger Hawk]

On a side note I am so glad that Jim O'Brien had his ass fired even if it was 18 months too late.

Yeah what's doing there? Heard it was the owner's call and Bird had no say in it, despite what he's trying to say now.

 

[Ridders]

We saw how good that worked before Gasol was traded there.

Fair point.

And Gasol did prove himself in Memphis by winning all those playoff games as the focal point of the team.

Oh wait..

 

[Tonearm Terrorwrist]

And the Pacers won in their first game since his firing.

I wonder if the change will help Hibbert out. Seemed to struggle to find minutes under O'Brien in recent times.

JOB wasn't happy with Hibbert's low-post game recently so he's been sitting on the bench a fair bit. Young man in a relatively poor team that wasn't really well coached I can see a few things resulting in his form so hopefully it all changes for the good. Hibbert had just over 30 minutes, shot 9 of 19 for 24 points with 11 rebounds including 5 OR's which is him back on the right path. The young ones can only benefit.

Good win for Vogel first up but to be fair it was the Raptor's we should beat them regardless.

Yeah what's doing there? Heard it was the owner's call and Bird had no say in it, despite what he's trying to say now.

Yeah Bird is quoted as saying different things, not too long ago he assured JOB was safe until the end of the season when his contract was out now he says he told the owner to make a call either way during the Bulls loss. I can't see Bird telling Simon what to do :lol: but tbh I don't care who made the call I'm just glad that it finally happened.

 

[Tiger Hawk]

Fair point.

And Gasol did prove himself in Memphis by winning all those playoff games as the focal point of the team.

Oh wait..

And Kobe won how many series as the focal point sans Shaq & Gasol?

Bottom line, they both need eachother. I'm surprised how many Lakers fans (not just on here) that are blaming everything on Gasol now when I think it's abundantly clear that without him, the Lakers are just an average team out West.

 

[Ridders]

Miami pump Cleveland again. 117-90. Their 21st straight loss

 

[Ridders]

And Kobe won how many series as the focal point sans Shaq & Gasol?

Bottom line, they both need eachother. I'm surprised how many Lakers fans (not just on here) that are blaming everything on Gasol now when I think it's abundantly clear that without him, the Lakers are just an average team out West.

He's actually won playoff games..

I agree that Kobe and Gasol need each other. They make each other's life easier. It's a point I've made all along. I'm very grateful for what Gasol has done for the team. I think any Lakers fan would be.

Not neccessarily surprising, but I do enjoy seeing Kobe haters try and use Gasol as a subtle way of undermining Kobe.

Not that I blame you guys, the last couple of years can't have been that great. You do have to admit, you guys had a great run with the whole "can't win without shaq".

I guess you guys have to cling onto something, and if that mean's trying to turn Gasol into Tim Duncan, then so be it.

 

[andrew057]

Fair point.

And Gasol did prove himself in Memphis by winning all those playoff games as the focal point of the team.

Oh wait..

Guess it shows that at the time neither of them could do it without the other.

 

[Tiger Hawk]

He's actually won playoff games..

I agree that Kobe and Gasol need each other. They make each other's life easier. It's a point I've made all along. I'm very grateful for what Gasol has done for the team. I think any Lakers fan would be.

Not neccessarily surprising, but I do enjoy seeing Kobe haters try and use Gasol as a subtle way of undermining Kobe.

Not that I blame you guys, the last couple of years can't have been that great. You do have to admit, you guys had a great run with the whole "can't win without shaq".

I guess you guys have to cling onto something, and if that mean's trying to turn Gasol into Tim Duncan, then so be it.

:lol: Nice try.

And he couldn't win without Shaq - until Gasol arrived to help.

 

[Ridders]

Couldn't win without Fish.

That's not a bad one.

 

[Tonearm Terrorwrist]

It seems to me there are two sides of this debate: pro-Gasol are the neutrals and pro-Kobe are the LA fans and in reality I don't think you can argue with how it panned out, with Shaq LA did the three-peat and without him LA struggled then enter Gasol and they make the finals the year he was traded in and then go back-to-back with a look at another three-peat.

Michael Jordan didn't win a ring by himself until Scottie Pippen showed up. I don't see the problem or how it makes people Kobe haters it's just the truth.

 

[Ridders]

It seems to me there are two sides of this debate: pro-Gasol are the neutrals and pro-Kobe are the LA fans and in reality I don't think you can argue with how it panned out, with Shaq LA did the three-peat and without him LA struggled then enter Gasol and they make the finals the year he was traded in and then go back-to-back with a look at another three-peat.

Michael Jordan didn't win a ring by himself until Scottie Pippen showed up. I don't see the problem or how it makes people Kobe haters it's just the truth.

Oh I don't have an issue with that. I've been a big fan of Gasol's since he came and he's a big part of why LA have been so good in recent times. I don't think anyone's arguing with that.

It's the notion that this somehow makes him more valuable to the Lakers success than Kobe that irks me.

I'll flip what you said around.

Without Kobe, Gasol never won a single playoff game.

With Kobe, he's been to 3 straight finals and won two titles in a row.

Kobe's helped Gasol's game, and Gasol's helped Kobe's game. Simple as that.

But he's never won without Fish..

 

[Ridders]

And also why can't an LA fan be pro-Gasol?

I've previously always wondered why the team nevered featured him more, and even made him the consistent focal point. I've critisized Kobe in the past for taking too many shots and not running things through Gasol more.

This seasons given me the reason why LA don't consistently run the team through Pau.

 

[Tonearm Terrorwrist]

I only mean pro-Gasol in this championship debate not as a player personally, I should have clarified that.

The comparison between the Grizzlies and the Lakers is way off the Grizzlies sucked badly and I don't think any of us who think Gasol had more of an impact than Kobe in the last 3 years will deny that Gasol is not suited to being a franchise player. It's a debate that can go around in circles and get nowhere until the cow's come home but it certainly isn't Kobe hating it's just how it is:

MJ never won without Pippen, Magic never won with Kareem, Kobe never won without a dominant big man, Shaq never won by himself, LeBron never won by himself, Ginobli and Parker never won without Duncan the list is endless but when Gasol gets traded in late January or early February whenever it was the Lakers lose less games from then until the last game of the finals than they did before he arrived I don't think you can argue with his impact.

Fish never won without Shaq or Gasol either

 

[Ridders]

Yeah no one's doubting his impact. LA only became a title team again upon his arrival. It'd be stupid to dispute that.

But imo that doesn't make him more valuable to the Lakers success than Kobe. If Gasol's traded to a Lakers team that didn't include Kobe, he'd just be in a slightly better position than his Memphis situation.

Your right though, it does just go around in circles.

 

[Ridders]

Kobe's never won without Phil either. Man this guys just can't do anything without anyone.