What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

New 2pac album ruined

Messages
2,839
^^^Yep, him an Biggie had that uncanny ability to mix, skills, flow, and knowledge of reality to tell stories. About real sh*t.

Ummortal Technique: "The Bling Bling era was cute....but now its over"

Take that into account, real hip hop is coming back people. 1.
 

MILLWALL

Juniors
Messages
1,742
DIEHARD said:
Well fine keep your opinions to yourself, you wont see me dissing ACDC especially in an ACDC thread just because I don't dig their music.

It is as simple as that.

Didnt you just do it in the dimebag radio station tribute thread ? and you started an argument on the wrestling one
 

Red Bear

Referee
Messages
20,882
DIEHARD said:
Now piss off, low lives. If you aren't interested in 2pac forget inputting. If you are just going to hate on him unjustly. You are just ignorant.
Hey Michael Jefferson. Your just ignorant, your so ignorant :p

"But do you know what I think is just pathetic and gay/When n*ggaz speculate what the f*ck Pac would say/You dunno sh*t about a dead man's perspective/And talking sh*t like that will get your neckbone disconnected"
Geez great lyrics here, so are all rappers homophobic pricks? Seems all their fans are. for insatnce

DIEHARD said:
Just because you are a simple minded redneck who doesn't like any sort of music that doesn't include homosexuals with long hair and guitars.
I love that. Acuses someone of being a redneck before making a homophobic comment.
Was Dimebag even racist? I thought it was anselmo who was the junkie racist prick in the band.
Dimebag wasnt talented? f**k me he could play guitar. Shitload better than anything tupac has ever done with his nursery rhymes.
Beatles v Tupac? Don't try n make me laugh. Beatles own tupac in every possible way. Lennon was a genius.
In conclusion, rap fans are hilarious. Lets throw wild acusations about people being rednecks while being homophobic tools.
Of course the genius of Diehard demanding respect for the person he like he died while in the same post saying he is glad dimebag darrel is dead :roll:
 

Balmain_Boy

Guest
Messages
4,801
Thierry Henry said:
stand by my comment, 2 Pac was to rap what the beatles were to pop

You would know Raiduh, I mean, you were 9 when he died :roll:

2Pac would never have become this popular if he hadn't died. I can't believe anyone disputes this. He was nowhere near the most talented emcee, even of his own era. I own "Me Against the World" his ONLY album that was met with unanimous critical acclaim (All Eyez on Me is pretty patchy, the posthumous ones range from sh*t to inconsistent), and it's pretty dull compared to the stuff coming out of New York at the same time. He certainly wasn't a musical revolutionary, maybe he saw himself as a social revolutionary, I dunno. Regardless, he died aged 25 with one excellent album and a couple of patchy ones behind him. That's his lot and always will be.

Noone touts Tupac as a Lyrical genious Thierry. It's more to do with subject matter and the passion with which he delivered it.

Lyically, there are a LOT of superior emcees. I've always like Pac's flow however. Just his delivery. The fact that some of his stuff is rough is part of its beauty. Like a record is more pleasing to the human ear than a CD.

As for critical acclaim, it means nothing. In fact critical acclaim goes close to rendering the whole genre as close to useless. I take it with a grain of salt.

I don't think anyone is comparing the Beatles and Tupac. Diehard simply suggests they are of equal importance to their respective genres. When he made the comparison you brought up people like Public Enemy and so forth. PE and guys like George Clinton and Afrika Bambaata had far differnt roles in their genres then the Beatles did. The above were absolute pioneers, creating a new genre. The beatles stood on shoulders, and hardly created a new genre. Though they are no doubt close to the most influential band in history, they are not the pioneers of rcok (perhaps of pop?), but rather the most popular band in history.

Tupac himself was one of the first absolute superstars of, a guy who did help bridge a cultural barrier. Musically he may not have contributed as much as is claimed, but I belive he has still had a huge influence. Have a look at how many high profile rappers put him forward as an inspiration if you doubt this.


For the record the Beatles are my favourite band ;-)
 

Balmain_Boy

Guest
Messages
4,801
Hmmm, I after re-reading that, I think i've understated the role of the Beatles. Hopefully you understand what i'm getting at. The point is comparing the Beatles' and Tupac's places in their genres is not necessarily incorrect IMO.

Thierry, you're a know it all mate ;-)
 

Balmain_Boy

Guest
Messages
4,801
GoTheBears said:
Beatles v Tupac? Don't try n make me laugh. Beatles own tupac in every possible way.

I don't think he's seriously trying to say Tupac acheived more. Noone would make such a ridiculous assertion. More their impact on their RESPECTIVE genres. Pop is of course a much harder market to crack.

GoTheBears said:
Lennon was a genius.

:evil:

Why does everyone just say Lennon this, Lennon that. What about Mcartney and Harrison
 

Raider_69

Post Whore
Messages
61,174
The Colonel said:
R69 made it about The Beatles. I disagreed.

i never made it about the beatles, i mearly provided those who may not know much about 2 Pac an analergy to how good Pac was. Never have i said the beatles were shit, that 2 pac was better or anything, just that his work in relation to rap is simular to what the Beatles did with pop music.

As said im not compairing them against each other but in relation to their respective genres. 2 Pac and the beatles can not be compaired head to head, its like apples and oranges. They were both IN MY OPINION equally influencial in their respective genres.

TH, what does my age have to do with this? I still have his CD's, seen his movies, looked up information about him. My age has little relevence here TH so id appreciate it if you could, to quote the 12th Man - "f**k off and f**k off now" :)

But then again i guess if the great TH says something its gospel :roll:

And despite your opinion, it is the opinion of most that 2 Pac was indeed the driving force of the increased popularity that the rap genre received during the mid 90's.

I have a pretty wide range of taste in reguards to music, i listen to old rock and classics, new age rock, some punk, rap and r&b. If you dont like the music then thats your opinion, your entitled to it but dont come in and start talking shit about genres you dont understand.
 

Red Bear

Referee
Messages
20,882
McCartney and Harrison were both excellent of course, but Lennon was in a class of his own, the lone genius who i doubt would ever have gone back. Similar to how John Cleese is in a class of his own when it comes to Monty Python.
 
Messages
2,839
Geez great lyrics here, so are all rappers homophobic pricks? Seems all their fans are. for insatnce

Nope, Im not homophobic. Immortal Tech aint either. Hes putting things into perspective. These guys, Eminem, 50 Cent etc, always go on about sh*t being gay, and they are 2Pac wannabes, and Immortal Tech is basically saying that the "gayest" thing of all, is tryna act like 2Pac. I thought those were some good lyrics, when trying to put sh*t into perspective.
 

Balmain_Boy

Guest
Messages
4,801
GoTheBears said:
McCartney and Harrison were both excellent of course, but Lennon was in a class of his own, the lone genius who i doubt would ever have gone back. Similar to how John Cleese is in a class of his own when it comes to Monty Python.

Lone genious? Come on, have a look at what are considered the Beatles greatest songs. CA very good portion of them are Mcartney's, or Mcartney's with some help from Lennon. Harrison isn't on their level.

How is Cleese on another level in Monty Python? Perhaps a better actor, but Cleese often claims Chapman added the brilliance behind the sketches they wrote together.
 

Red Bear

Referee
Messages
20,882
I reckon Cleese is by far the best Python, and you can see that in the way he can do other things as opposed to living off Python.
Manurewa, if you saw the next quote was n example of another rap fan(DIEHARD) and his obvious homophobia.
 

Manu Vatuvei

Coach
Messages
17,229
TH, what does my age have to do with this? I still have his CD's, seen his movies, looked up information about him. My age has little relevence here TH so id appreciate it if you could, to quote the 12th Man - "f**k off and f**k off now"

But then again i guess if the great TH says something its gospel

Well yeah, I mean obviously if I state an opinion it's because I'm a know it all, but if you state an opinion, anyone who disagrees should f*ck off :|

And yeah BB, thanks for noticing. I often feel that the fact I know everything is underappreciated.
 

Manu Vatuvei

Coach
Messages
17,229
As for critical acclaim, it means nothing. In fact critical acclaim goes close to rendering the whole genre as close to useless. I take it with a grain of salt.

I see your point, but I still think that critical acclaim should be taken into consideration. I mean, most musicians have a group of fans who say that their stuff is great. I think, when considering the quality of an album or whatever, that unanimous positive reviews from the experts (or so-called experts, if you prefer) should be given a fair bit of weight. Sometimes an album is made that is just undeniably excellent. If an album has mixed reviews, debating its merits is always going to be a messy exercise.
 

Mad Dogg

Juniors
Messages
2,359
Thierry Henry said:
I dispute the claim that 2Pac was THE driving force behind mid-90s rap, or that he was head and shoulders above everyone else in terms of popularity, etc. Maybe you can bring out some stats to prove it, I dunno, but it's just not how I see it. For example, if Nas had been killed back in '96, and 2Pac was still alive, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a generation of people idolising Nas and exaggerating his achievements, while taking a more tempered view on 2Pacs artistic ups and downs. Just an opinion.
I think you're under-rating 2Pac a bit there. At the time of his death he was the biggest rap star around. And unlike most of the extremely big rappers that have come since, and to a lesser extent before, 2Pac didn't sell out and become pop. Which is one of the reasons why he does have such a following.

To me 2Pac is always either over-rated or under-rated. People either think he was the greatest ever (which I actually do agree with to a point), or that the only reason he made it big was because of his death. He already was huge before his death, but there is no denying that being killed in his prime has given him some of the legendary status.
 

Manu Vatuvei

Coach
Messages
17,229
I think you're under-rating 2Pac a bit there. At the time of his death he was the biggest rap star around. And unlike most of the extremely big rappers that have come since, and to a lesser extent before, 2Pac didn't sell out and become pop. Which is one of the reasons why he does have such a following.

Tupac released records between what, 1992 and 1996? He was really big between maybe 94-96? He was only around for a minute, he hardly even had time to "go pop". He probably (arguably) reached his artistic peak in '95 with Me Against the World, and then around the time of his death came All Eyez On Me, which definitely had some poppy tracks in it, California Love, How do you want it etc etc....he hardly shunned the chance to top the charts and make a quick buck..

At the time of his death he was certainly riding a wave of popularity, but (and please don't be offended here) don't you think his death was pretty well-timed as far as maintaining his popularity goes? Sorry, that sounds disrespectful, but I don't mean it that way. All I'm saying is, he died right at the time when his crossover potential was at it's highest...maybe if he had had more time to release some of the lesser material which is almost inevitable in any prolonged career, his legacy would have been tarnished...

To me 2Pac is always either over-rated or under-rated. People either think he was the greatest ever (which I actually do agree with to a point), or that the only reason he made it big was because of his death. He already was huge before his death, but there is no denying that being killed in his prime has given him some of the legendary status.

oops, I see you've already covered some of that ground :oops: :clap:

imo, 2Pac was at his best during a very good era of hip-hop, he certainly wasn't miles above the pack. He had the whole thing going on with Biggie, who was also hugely popular, Nas was topping the charts, and Wu Tang were releasing chart-topping album after chart-topping album...indeed, I would say the hype for Wu Tang Forever in '97 was right up there with the hype for Pac...
 

Mad Dogg

Juniors
Messages
2,359
Thierry Henry said:
At the time of his death he was certainly riding a wave of popularity, but (and please don't be offended here) don't you think his death was pretty well-timed as far as maintaining his popularity goes? Sorry, that sounds disrespectful, but I don't mean it that way.
Ouch, it could definitely be taken the wrong way. But I know what you mean (obviously, seeing as I said something similar).

You yourself mention Biggie who was also quite successful at the time. He was murdered at basically at the same time as 2Pac, but (and here is where I say something that could sound disrespectful) he isn't really remembered in the same way Pac was. While he obviously does get a lot of mentions for someone who died that long ago, many of them are almost footnotes to 2Pac. 'The other guy' who got killed, if you know what I mean.

Who knows what would've happened if 2Pac (and Biggie for that matter) wasn't murdered. He may have changed the course rap has taken, he may have faded out with a number of bombed albums, or he may have, as you said, gone progressively more pop. The only way to judge him is with the music that he left behind, and that's where we all have our differing opinions.
 
Messages
2,839
You go to Brooklyn or anywhere in NYC, and Biggie is far more popular than Pac. If u can, try and get some footage of his funeral in BK. It is crazy, a fricken party breaks out, thousands upon thousands outside the church, it gets really quiet then, when his casket is brought out, then all of a sudden, some one lets HYPNATYZE loose on a stereo system and the riot squad is bought in lol. This dude was popular.

However, the mid 90s was the West Coast's era, and we tend to get the WC point of things, which is why we percieve Pac as being more poular. Also, Big only released 2 albums, Pac has released.....more!!!!!

I reckon Biggie is better. I love JUICY! his flow is so ill on thatg track. "Super nintendo, sega genesis/When I was dead broke man I couldnt picture this/50 inch screen, money green, leather sofa/I got 2 rides, and a limosine with the cheuffer/.......(cant remember) about 2 gz flat/No need to worry my accountant handles that/And my whole crew is lounging/Celebratin everyday, no more public housing" and it keeps going. DAMM!!!
 
Top