New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby

[Wb1234]

Not sure the competition is there for such a number, Especially with such limited space for commercials in a game

Nrl hasn’t gone to market for almost seven years by the time they do it

plus extra content

Stan will be around even if ten don’t bid that should be enough for a decent result

 

[Perth Red]

If we can get an uplift from $402 to $500mill that’s a major lift, anything above that would be excellent.the biggest uplift we’ve seen is the 2013 to 2018 shift when we went from $220mill to $385mill but that was largely due to still playing catch up from news ltd ownership.

 

[The Great Dane]

What other sports?! Tennis?! Track?!

There're so many now, and the info on each case so disparate, that it's difficult to build a comprehensive list. We also have to keep in mind that not all of these are 100% confirmed because you can't confirm it until you do an autopsy, and generally that requires the body to be donated to science in these cases, but all of them are at least as confirmed as you can be without doing an autopsy.

We also have to keep in mind that we're starting to find other forms of brain damage that are associated with repeated impacts to the head that aren't technically CTE, like white matter damage. So it's same cause and effect, and can be just as devastating, but slightly different, kind of like different strains of a virus for example. There's actually some discussion that some of these other conditions maybe be precursors or related to CTE, but I digress.

Cycling, bobsleigh, snowboarding, skateboarding, rodeo, motor sports, soccer, lacrosse, and whole bunch more that I'm forgetting in the moment. And yeah, though exceedingly rare compared to a lot of the others, there have been tennis players whom have sustained concussions playing the game that display telltale signs of brain damage as well.

 

[Te Kaha]

Or minimise, and accept and provide alternative as I say. We've known about CTE in boxers for decades, people still choose to box. You can end up a quadriplegic playing Rugby (sic) people still choose to play. I have a race car, its batsht crazy dangerous, I still choose to race. Its human nature to rationalise risk away, good job or we wouldn't do anything!

The big difference of course is those are individuals. You will always have the odd person who doesn't care about their future health and will do it, no matter the cost. The Rugbys have to have a two teams to have a game.
If only half the prospective juniors decide or have their parents decide to not let them play then the both games are finished here. No teams, no game.

I said England is the home of union

is english your second language ??

like league is also second for you

England is not the "home of union" you moron. It may be the birthplace but that's it. WR is based in Ireland you idiot.

Or you're making out that CTE is a bigger issue in the rugbys and other contact sports to push the point that it'll have a significantly larger impact on them than other sports to win an argument on the internet, when that isn't necessarily the case in reality.

I'd go so far as to say that it shouldn't be the case in reality.

That's exactly my point though; contact and combat sports are only overrepresented because that's where the majority of the research, and media attention, has been so far. However almost every time somebody has looked for CTE in another sport they've found it, or at least something similar to it, and it's only a matter of time before we start to better understand that and it becomes more publicised.

In other words, we're starting to find CTE in what look to be statistically significant rates in dozens of sports, most of which aren't traditionally considered contact sports, and potentially other recreational activities as well.

We've also found that you don't need to be concussed, in either the clinical or colloquial sense, to develop symptoms of CTE. Subconcussive impacts have been shown to cause the brain to move within the skull without causing the symptoms associated with concussions, but are also still capable of causing brain damage associated with CTE if you're exposed to enough over an extended period.

The really crazy thing about subconcussive impacts is that they can be so small that you don't even need to make contact with anything to cause one. The vibrations of moving at high speeds or g-force associated with cornering or suddenly stopping can be enough to cause subconcussive impacts.

So sure, there'll almost certainly be a higher rate of CTE in the combat and contact sports on average (there do seem to be potential exceptions like bobsleigh though), and generally speaking the cases of CTE in combat and contact sports seem to be worse. However the presence of CTE in most other sports still seems to be significant, and the cases there are still life changing.

Which is entirely irrelevant.

What we see now, and what is splashed all over the news the last week is that, due to the propensity and occurrence of concussion in Rugby and by extension League more and more ex, and now current, players are showing brain damage including, but not limited to, CTE.
The Narrative is that if you play contact sport you stand a higher chance of brain damage. The fear is already started being felt in the massive decline in junior numbers for both Rugby codes. And one reason why Basketball has taken off, especially among Maori and Pacific Islanders.

Unless the perception is changed, and saying other sports can give you CTE is certainly not the way, then those sports are finished. And the problem is in both Rugbys is that to do that you will probably have to fundamentally change the sport, which in itself may kill it. It is looking more and more likely that in 30 years the only "Rugby" being played will be "touch"

 

[Pippen94]

There're so many now, and the info on each case so disparate, that it's difficult to build a comprehensive list. We also have to keep in mind that not all of these are 100% confirmed because you can't confirm it until you do an autopsy, and generally that requires the body to be donated to science in these cases, but all of them are at least as confirmed as you can be without doing an autopsy.

We also have to keep in mind that we're starting to find other forms of brain damage that are associated with repeated impacts to the head that aren't technically CTE, like white matter damage. So it's same cause and effect, and can be just as devastating, but slightly different, kind of like different strains of a virus for example. There's actually some discussion that some of these other conditions maybe be precursors or related to CTE, but I digress.

Cycling, bobsleigh, snowboarding, skateboarding, rodeo, motor sports, soccer, lacrosse, and whole bunch more that I'm forgetting in the moment. And yeah, though exceedingly rare compared to a lot of the others, there have been tennis players whom have sustained concussions playing the game that display telltale signs of brain damage as well.

None of those sports are surprising.

 

[Iamback]

Nrl hasn’t gone to market for almost seven years by the time they do it

plus extra content

Stan will be around even if ten don’t bid that should be enough for a decent result

Stan is losing content so a tough few years for them. $550m is still a great result matches anything any sport has gotten in this country before. A healthy increase represents growth

fans have too much unrealistic expectations so I expect the same few posters to still whinge about it

 

[Wb1234]

TikTok - Make Your Day

vt.tiktok.com

 

[The Great Dane]

Which is entirely irrelevant.

What we see now, and what is splashed all over the news the last week is that, due to the propensity and occurrence of concussion in Rugby and by extension League more and more ex, and now current, players are showing brain damage including, but not limited to, CTE.
The Narrative is that if you play contact sport you stand a higher chance of brain damage. The fear is already started being felt in the massive decline in junior numbers for both Rugby codes. And one reason why Basketball has taken off, especially among Maori and Pacific Islanders.

Unless the perception is changed, and saying other sports can give you CTE is certainly not the way, then those sports are finished. And the problem is in both Rugbys is that to do that you will probably have to fundamentally change the sport, which in itself may kill it. It is looking more and more likely that in 30 years the only "Rugby" being played will be "touch"

I recently read an article written by an American mother which was basically just her justifying her decision to never allow her children to play football because of CTE, and strongly suggesting that allowing children to do so was tantamount to child abuse. In her article she kept going on about there being 'safe' alternatives, using examples such as baseball, basketball, and soccer.

CTE has been confirmed in both baseball and soccer, and considering the amount of contact, and that concussions and head injuries occur quite regularly in basketball, I guarantee that it's only a matter of time before CTE or a similar condition is confirmed in basketball.

If you truly don't believe that knowledge of that information would influence her decision, and millions of others like her, on the sport's she would and wouldn't allow her kids to play then you're totally disconnected from reality.

The current narrative and perception around CTE will change relatively quickly as more research is done, the findings of that research becomes more publicised, and that information becomes more public knowledge. In fact that process is already in full swing in reality.

Nobody is contesting that it's inevitable that the impact of CTE is going to hit the contact sports first and hardest, but it's only a matter of time before it has an impact on a whole myriad of other sports as well, and only a fool would think otherwise.

 

[Te Kaha]

I recently read an article written by an American mother which was basically just her justifying her decision to never allow her children to play football because of CTE, and strongly suggesting that allowing children to do so was tantamount to child abuse. In her article she kept going on about there being 'safe' alternatives, using examples such as baseball, basketball, and soccer.

CTE has been confirmed in both baseball and soccer, and considering the amount of contact, and that concussions and head injuries occur quite regularly in basketball, I guarantee that it's only a matter of time before CTE or a similar condition is confirmed in basketball.

If you truly don't believe that knowledge of that information would influence her decision, and millions of others like her, on the sport's she would and wouldn't allow her kids to play then you're totally disconnected from reality.

The current narrative and perception around CTE will change relatively quickly as more research is done, the findings of that research becomes more publicised, and that information becomes more public knowledge. In fact that process is already in full swing in reality.

Nobody is contesting that it's inevitable that the impact of CTE is going to hit the contact sports first and hardest, but it's only a matter of time before it has an impact on a whole myriad of other sports as well, and only a fool would think otherwise.

Way to straw man that argument.

When you basically break it down your ENTIRE argument is "other sports may cause your kids to get CTE, so why not let them play the sports that will give them a greater chance of getting it." That's ludicrous, and doomed to fail.

It clear from history that Contact team sports, suche as the Rugbys, NFL, Ice hockey have a much greater instance of Concussion, and this more likely to lead to brain damage.

So far among the increasing amounts of research done, there isn't anything to say that Contact team sports are as safe, or safer than non contact sports. And only a fool would assume any research going forward will show this.

 

[The Great Dane]

None of those sports are surprising.

Most people would disagree with you on many of those examples, especially when they find out how they think people are getting it in each individual sport, which is often the most interesting thing about it BTW.

But honestly mate, if you can conceive of a way in which a person could either regularly take impacts to the head, get concussions, or even just be exposed to strong vibrations repeatedly in a sport, then it's more likely than not that CTE or similar conditions occur in that sport at least at some rate.

I mean they're pretty sure that they've found examples of it in gymnastics, and if you can get it in gymnastics then you can get it in pretty much anything. Like at that point a particularly clumsy or unlucky runner could get it lol.

 

[The Great Dane]

Way to straw man that argument.

When you basically break it down your ENTIRE argument is "other sports may cause your kids to get CTE, so why not let them play the sports that will give them a greater chance of getting it." That's ludicrous, and doomed to fail.

It clear from history that Contact team sports, suche as the Rugbys, NFL, Ice hockey have a much greater instance of Concussion, and this more likely to lead to brain damage.

So far among the increasing amounts of research done, there isn't anything to say that Contact team sports are as safe, or safer than non contact sports. And only a fool would assume any research going forward will show this.

Accuses other person of strawmanning their argument, doesn't explain how it's a strawman (because it's not lol), then proceeds to blatantly strawman the other person's argument...

Not once have I said that the fact that CTE can occur in other sports will lead to people taking it less seriously in the contact sports. In fact I pretty much said the exact opposite at the very end of the post you're replying to-

Nobody is contesting that it's inevitable that the impact of CTE is going to hit the contact sports first and hardest, but it's only a matter of time before it has an impact on a whole myriad of other sports as well, and only a fool would think otherwise.

Suggesting that I even suggested, let alone said, that research will somehow prove that contact sports are safe, as safe, or safer than noncontact sports is probably the worst case of somebody dishonestly misrepresenting an argument I've ever encountered. You'd genuinely have to have a severe learning disorder to truly believe that that was even close to what I was saying, and while I accept that being a Kiwi is a learning disorder of some magnitude, it's certainly nowhere near that severe.

What I actually said is the fact that CTE is more prevalent in contact sports doesn't mean that people will accept the risk of it in other sports. In other words very few people in the general public are likely to accept the argument that "CTE isn't as prevalent in these sports as it is in the contact sports, so it's safe to let my kids play them".

Significant portions of the general public will start to question the risk of letting their kids participate in any sport that it can be shown that CTE, or other similar conditions, occurs in at any kind of significant rate, as soon as they become aware of it, and it's only a matter of time before the general public becomes more widely aware of the risks in multiple sports.

Pretending that that isn't the case is just pretty insane to me.

 

[Te Kaha]

Accuses other person of strawmanning their argument, doesn't explain how it's a strawman (because it's not lol), then proceeds to blatantly strawman the other persons argument...

Not once have I said that the fact that CTE can occur in other sports will lead to people taking it less seriously in the contact sports. In fact I pretty much said the exact opposite at the very end of the post you're replying to-

Suggesting that I even suggested, let alone said, that research will somehow prove that contact sports are safe, as safe, or safer than noncontact sports is probably the worst case of somebody dishonestly misrepresenting an argument I've ever encountered. You'd genuinely have to have a severe learning disorder to truly believe that that was even close to what I was saying, and while I accept that being a Kiwi is a learning disorder of some magnitude, it's certainly nowhere near that severe.

What I actually said is the fact that CTE is more prevalent in contact sports doesn't mean that people will accept the risk of it in other sports. In other words very few people in the general public are likely to accept the argument that "CTE isn't as prevalent in these sports as it is in the contact sports, so it's safe to let my kids play them".

Significant portions of the general public will start to question the risk of letting their kids participate in any sport that it can be shown that CTE, or other similar conditions, occurs in at any kind of significant rate, as soon as they become aware of it, and it's only a matter of time before the general public becomes more widely aware of the risks in multiple sports.

Pretending that that isn't the case is just pretty insane to me.

You didn't suggest that? You have downplayed the risk several times. " contact and combat sports are only overrepresented because that's where the majority of the research, and media attention, has been so far." They are "only overrepresented" because of this, not because they are more likely to cause CTE and other brain damage?

Or .. "If the risk of CTE is enough to really significantly impact the contact sports then it's going to effect basically every sport in existence, and bunch of oth er recreational activities as well." Despite the fact it already is effecting contact sports. You're downplaying the risks in contact sports because it will show up in other sports.

or..
Participants are declining because of ignorance though
Mothers whom don't allow their kids to play e.g. RL or RU are signing their kids up to play e.g. AFL or soccer because they are safer, when they aren't really any safer.
or...
" restrictions on sport as a result of CTE will not stop at the combat and contact sports if society allows such restrictions happen at all."... except its already happening.

You don't see, or care, that the "risks" of contact sports are already out there, in the public domain. they are already causing decreases in playing numbers in kids, and adults. Stating that "other sports" will eventually show instances of brain damage, all be it at a lower rate, is irrelevant and pointless. It will be too late, you need to make the sport safer to keep kids playing. But you would rather point the finger at other sports and say all sports are in the same boat, when its clearly not the case.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I recently read an article written by an American mother which was basically just her justifying her decision to never allow her children to play football because of CTE, and strongly suggesting that allowing children to do so was tantamount to child abuse. In her article she kept going on about there being 'safe' alternatives, using examples such as baseball, basketball, and soccer.

CTE has been confirmed in both baseball and soccer, and considering the amount of contact, and that concussions and head injuries occur quite regularly in basketball, I guarantee that it's only a matter of time before CTE or a similar condition is confirmed in basketball.

If you truly don't believe that knowledge of that information would influence her decision, and millions of others like her, on the sport's she would and wouldn't allow her kids to play then you're totally disconnected from reality.

The current narrative and perception around CTE will change relatively quickly as more research is done, the findings of that research becomes more publicised, and that information becomes more public knowledge. In fact that process is already in full swing in reality.

Nobody is contesting that it's inevitable that the impact of CTE is going to hit the contact sports first and hardest, but it's only a matter of time before it has an impact on a whole myriad of other sports as well, and only a fool would think otherwise.

A basketballer from the South East Melbourne Phoenix missed a lot of the season due to a severe concussion.

United's Shea Ili's dizzying journey from concussion back to the court

On the surface, Shea Ili felt like he was on the precipice of returning to the court after recovering from two separate concussions. Yet, a simple turn of the head in the wrong direction would almost be enough to make the United guard fall to the floor.

www.espn.com.au

 

[Matua]

TikTok - Make Your Day

vt.tiktok.com

Not sure how relevant a Tongan player is to a thread about an expansion team in NZ.

Is this your Tik Tok account you're promoting?

 

[Wb1234]

Not sure how relevant a Tongan player is to a thread about an expansion team in NZ.

Is this your Tik Tok account you're promoting?

Wellington is in nz bruv

all blacks have no qualms about getting talented islanders playing for them

luckily for US he chose the light side of the force

there’s around 20 new kiwi kids about to burst onto the nrl scene too

 

[Te Kaha]

Wellington is in nz bruv

all blacks have no qualms about getting talented islanders playing for them

luckily for US he chose the light side of the force

there’s around 20 new kiwi kids about to burst onto the nrl scene too

You are such a liar wally. The list you keep mentioning, includes Katoa and others who where neither born here or raised here. As usual you are talking bullshit.

 

[Perth Red]

Nrl hasn’t gone to market for almost seven years by the time they do it

plus extra content

Stan will be around even if ten don’t bid that should be enough for a decent result

Would ch9 bid against Fox? That'd be interesting, would that mean fox would need to find a new fta bid partner due to the conflict in interest?

By most accounts AFL got bids of
$500-550mill from Stan/Ch9
$600mill from Paramount/Ch10
$550mill cash plus unspecified contra from Ch7/Fox (winning bid)

If we get bids in that range we'll do very nicely. presuming stations are interested and Vlandys allows it to go to open tender.

 

[Matua]

Wellington is in nz bruv

all blacks have no qualms about getting talented islanders playing for them

luckily for US he chose the light side of the force

there’s around 20 new kiwi kids about to burst onto the nrl scene too

He's playing for Tonga, not relevant to this thread about an expansion team in NZ.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

The fact that there’s a risk of CTE in most sports doesn’t make them all equal. It’s fairly obvious that sports where concussive impacts are more frequent and integral to the sport are going to carry more risk. It’s no coincidence that boxing was the first sport it was obvious it n, followed by American football.

 

[Perth Red]

I can see touch and flag will become the predominant U14 version of RL. What that will mean for kids basic skill levels for tackling who knows. There will always be kids (and parents) who go for the full contact sports. They are probably the same ones with the physical and mental attributes to make it to pro level anyway. I'm not buying the chicken little "Rugby (sic) will be dead in 30 years" line.
I mean there are still people who choose to smoke!