New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby

[Wb1234]

Would ch9 bid against Fox? That'd be interesting, would that mean fox would need to find a new fta bid partner due to the conflict in interest?

By most accounts AFL got bids of
$500-550mill from Stan/Ch9
$600mill from Paramount/Ch10
$550mill cash plus unspecified contra from Ch7/Fox (winning bid)

If we get bids in that range we'll do very nicely. presuming stations are interested and Vlandys allows it to go to open tender.

Why wouldn’t stan bid against fox for league

they bid against fox for the afl rights

just them bidding will force fox to pay more then otherwise

I personally would hate every game to be on nine I can’t stand their coverage

 

[Te Kaha]

The fact that there’s a risk of CTE in most sports doesn’t make them all equal. It’s fairly obvious that sports where concussive impacts are more frequent and integral to the sport are going to carry more risk. It’s no coincidence that boxing was the first sport it was obvious it n, followed by American football.

That's exactly it, a parent will weigh up the risks for their kids. what's worse, playing no sport, playing a sport that there is a slight risk of concussion or head knocks that could affect them later in life, or play in a collision contact sport where they are almost guaranteed to get concussions at some stage. There aren't many who will ignore the risks.

 

[Wb1234]

He's playing for Tonga, not relevant to this thread about an expansion team in NZ.

Singing a good talented junior from nz shows what talent there is available for a second nz side

 

[Te Kaha]

I can see touch and flag will become the predominant U14 version of RL. What that will mean for kids basic skill levels for tackling who knows. There will always be kids (and parents) who go for the full contact sports. They are probably the same ones with the physical and mental attributes to make it to pro level anyway. I'm not buying the chicken little "Rugby (sic) will be dead in 30 years" line.
I mean there are still people who choose to smoke!

Its hardly "chicken little" we are already seeing a direct correlation in reduced junior numbers to increased publicity of concussion injuries in NZ. And a vast increase in perceived "safer" sports like Basketball. You have to remember, The Rugbys are team sports, you need at least 7 aside to play a proper game.
Individuals may not care about the risks, but boxing and UFC are picking them up. Team sports are not.

 

[Te Kaha]

Singing a good talented junior from nz shows what talent there is available for a second nz side

He was not signed from NZ you muppet, he was signed when he was already in Australia when his family moved over.

 

[Perth Red]

Why wouldn’t stan bid against fox for league

they bid against fox for the afl rights

just them bidding will force fox to pay more then otherwise

I personally would hate every game to be on nine I can’t stand their coverage

Because they are current partners in the rights. Stan bidding for AFL was in the fight with Ch7, would they have the same appetite to fight Fox alone, especially if News Ltd took offence and decided to go with a different FTA partner in a joint bid against Stan/Ch9?

Yeh all games on Ch9/Stan would be horrible.

 

[Perth Red]

Its hardly "chicken little" we are already seeing a direct correlation in reduced junior numbers to increased publicity of concussion injuries in NZ. And a vast increase in perceived "safer" sports like Basketball. You have to remember, The Rugbys are team sports, you need at least 7 aside to play a proper game.
Individuals may not care about the risks, but boxing and UFC are picking them up. Team sports are not.

Itd be interesting to see the participation trend given the CTE thing has only been around a short while. Theres been a generally accepted trend for a couple of decades of less teenagers playing sport year on year.

We are seeing increased Rl participation numbers in some cohorts so its not translating equally everywhere it would seem. There'll be a lot more emphasis on the "safe' versions of RL for kids coming, its already started. Tackle will still be there for the rest.

There was an interesting study in USA re participation in Jnr football (AF) and how the reduction was in some very specific population groups whilst other demographics were still strongly in support of kids playing full contact.

 

[Te Kaha]

Itd be interesting to see the participation trend given the CTE thing has only been around a short while. Theres been a generally accepted trend for a couple of decades of less teenagers playing sport year on year.

We are seeing increased Rl participation numbers in some cohorts so its not translating equally everywhere it would seem. There'll be a lot more emphasis on the "safe' versions of RL for kids coming, its already started. Tackle will still be there for the rest.

There was an interesting study in USA re participation in Jnr football (AF) and how the reduction was in some very specific population groups whilst other demographics were still strongly in support of kids playing full contact.

They had the graphs on the show, i cant find a hard copy of it. But it's not just CTE, the concussion situation has been around for decades. CTE is just the latest on the list.

 

[Perth Red]

They had the graphs on the show, i cant find a hard copy of it. But it's not just CTE, the concussion situation has been around for decades. CTE is just the latest on the list.

Its only really been last 4 years or so that its become a major story for Australian/NZ sport though. Taking out covid impact I'm not sure we know just yet how significant an impact it will have on jnr participation of full contact sports. I mean we are seeing a big uplift in girls taking up the game.
To make a claim both Rugby codes will be gone in 30 years is very chicken little lol

 

[Te Kaha]

Its only really been last 4 years or so that its become a major story for Australian/NZ sport though. Taking out covid impact I'm not sure we know just yet how significant an impact it will have on jnr participation of full contact sports. I mean we are seeing a big uplift in girls taking up the game.
To make a claim both Rugby codes will be gone in 30 years is very chicken little lol

Concussion related problems has been a story since the 70's, what the f**k are you talking about?? The All Blacks captain in the late 70's retired at 27 after his third concussion because doctors told him to. Concussion has been in the spotlight for decades. CTE has only been the last four years or so. CTE is just the latest name for it.
Concussion protocols have been around for decades as well.
Over here so called "soccer mums" have listed head knocks as the main reason they don't let their kids play Rugby\League.
Junior player numbers are tanking, and have been for decades, while 30 years may be part hyperbole, how will the games still be around when there aren't any junior teams?
And it remains to be seen if the womans games continue their increases.

 

[Perth Red]

Concussion related problems has been a story since the 70's, what the f**k are you talking about?? The All Blacks captain in the late 70's retired at 27 after his third concussion because doctors told him to. Concussion has been in the spotlight for decades. CTE has only been the last four years or so. CTE is just the latest name for it.
Concussion protocols have been around for decades as well.
Over here so called "soccer mums" have listed head knocks as the main reason they don't let their kids play Rugby\League.
Junior player numbers are tanking, and have been for decades, while 30 years may be part hyperbole, how will the games still be around when there aren't any junior teams?
And it remains to be seen if the womans games continue their increases.

Thats like saying we've known you can break your leg or snap your neck playing rugby (sic) for decades. The long term effects of concussion have only got into the publics minds in last few years due to discovery of CTE. No one was concerned about getting concussed before that, hell in my day a wet sponge and a whiff of smelling salts and you were back in the action. Before 5 years ago how many players got up rubbery legged and stumbled around for a bit while commentators laughed then straight back in the line. Im surprised as a RL fan this is news to you?

and? Im sure if you asked those same soccer mums ten years ago they still werent letting little johnnie play rugby (sic). The big question is how many Rugby (sic) mums have changed their opinions on their kids playing the game?

You say that but are they? everywhere? In every age group? Jnr RL numbers are up in most states. in certain age/gender cohorts they are well up. Is the decline greater in last few years? Is it a level where you cant develop a cream to a professional level? I'd need some much stronger data before jumping to the conclusion that there'll be NO jnr players to feed the systems in years to come.

 

[Te Kaha]

Thats like saying we've known you can break your leg or snap your neck playing rugby (sic) for decades. The long term effects of concussion have only got into the publics minds in last few years due to discovery of CTE. No one was concerned about getting concussed before that, hell in my day a wet sponge and a whiff of smelling salts and you were back in the action. Before 5 years ago how many players got up rubbery legged and stumbled around for a bit while commentators laughed then straight back in the line. Im surprised as a RL fan this is news to you?

That claim is pure bullshit. The long term effects of concussion have been in the "publics minds" for decades. Just because some cromaganam males and "commentators laughed" about it doesn't make it true.

You say that but are they? everywhere? In every age group? Jnr RL numbers are up in most states. in certain age/gender cohorts they are well up. Is the decline greater in last few years? Is it a level where you cant develop a cream to a professional level? I'd need some much stronger data before jumping to the conclusion that there'll be NO jnr players to feed the systems in years to come.

This is in NZ I'm talking about. Since you know that's what the tread is about. So your claim that junior numbers are up in "most states" is irrelevant. Most districts in NZ have barely enough numbers to field junior League teams, in the cities the numbers aren't much better. Do you think its coincidence that the NZRL refuse to put player numbers in their annual reports?

 

[Perth Red]

That claim is pure bullshit. The long term effects of concussion have been in the "publics minds" for decades. Just because some cromaganam males and "commentators laughed" about it doesn't make it true.



This is in NZ I'm talking about. Since you know that's what the tread is about. So your claim that junior numbers are up in "most states" is irrelevant. Most districts in NZ have barely enough numbers to field junior League teams, in the cities the numbers aren't much better. Do you think its coincidence that the NZRL refuse to put player numbers in their annual reports?

No its not, its reality. Up till a few years ago no one was talking about concussions and long term implications. Like no one. It was laughed off and play went on. I've been in the dementia field for 30 years, trust me Id know if it had been a focus of science or public fear.

But again re jnr drop off is that due to negligence, lack of funding and lack of attention for the game by the NRL and NZRL? Or is it due to CTE?

If its the former there's a fix to that problem. If its the latter well itd be interesting to know why NZ is trending so different to Australia in that regards.

 

[Te Kaha]

No its not, its reality. Up till a few years ago no one was talking about concussions and long term implications. Like no one. It was laughed off and play went on. I've been in the dementia field for 30 years, trust me Id know if it had been a focus of science or public fear.

But again re jnr drop off is that due to negligence, lack of funding and lack of attention for the game by the NRL and NZRL? Or is it due to CTE?

If its the former there's a fix to that problem. If its the latter well itd be interesting to know why NZ is trending so different to Australia in that regards.

Why do you keep mentioning CTE? All that has done has given a name to all of their fears. Concussion never been an issue???? Then why did the NRL bring in concussion protocols a decade ago? Just for shits and giggles?
The sports may have only started taking it seriously a decade ago, but there have been meida stories about it for a lot longer.

And if junior numbers in Aussie are on the up, why have there been articles linked here that show numbers declining in NSW and QLD?

 

[Perth Red]

Why do you keep mentioning CTE? All that has done has given a name to all of their fears. Concussion never been an issue???? Then why did the NRL bring in concussion protocols a decade ago? Just for shits and giggles?
The sports may have only started taking it seriously a decade ago, but there have been meida stories about it for a lot longer.

And if junior numbers in Aussie are on the up, why have there been articles linked here that show numbers declining in NSW and QLD?

Because CTE is what has brought it to the publics attention and this discussion is about jnr participation. Before CTE the media wasn't saying much and it wasnt influencing parents decisions any more than the risk of broken legs.

I said in some cohorts and some areas. Of course its hard to know the true picture since sports started using 'participation' numbers rather than registered players. But hey you want to believe there'll be no contact sports in 30 years then go ahead.

 

[Te Kaha]

Because CTE is what has brought it to the publics attention and this discussion is about jnr participation. Before CTE the media wasn't saying much and it wasnt influencing parents decisions any more than the risk of broken legs.

I said in some cohorts and some areas. Of course its hard to know the true picture since sports started using 'participation' numbers rather than registered players. But hey you want to believe there'll be no contact sports in 30 years then go ahead.

So according to you CTE being bout to the "publics attention" in the last four years lead to the NRL bringing in concession protocols over a decade ago? Righto.

Concussion issues have been around for decades and have been a major factor in declining youth participation. If you don't want to believe that, then that's on you. And I didn't say "contact sports" numpty, i said contact TEAM sports, and specifically i said here, where a smaller population means there will come a time when there are not enough juniors to field teams in comps and it will collapse. And given the declining numbers in Aussie, wont be long after that there either.

 

[Perth Red]

So according to you CTE being bout to the "publics attention" in the last four years lead to the NRL bringing in concession protocols over a decade ago? Righto.

Concussion issues have been around for decades and have been a major factor in declining youth participation. If you don't want to believe that, then that's on you. And I didn't say "contact sports" numpty, i said contact TEAM sports, and specifically i said here, where a smaller population means there will come a time when there are not enough juniors to field teams in comps and it will collapse. And given the declining numbers in Aussie, wont be long after that there either.

you continue to miss the point, we are talking about jnr particpation numbers. What the NRl did with concussion protocols well over a decade ago had no effect on parents decisions. Of course we've known its had an impact on brain health for many many decades but I can assure you the general public didnt even think about it other than in punch drunk boxers. No one was talking about RL players getting dementia from playing until the NFL scandal broke.

What has had is all the news over the last 4-5 years on CTE. What we dont know is how significant an effect it has had on parents decision making. To know that will take a few more years yet as covid was a significant variable in the middle of all the CTE spotlight.

and were back to the chicken little again.

 

[Te Kaha]

you continue to miss the point, we are talking about jnr particpation numbers. What the NRl did with concussion protocols well over a decade ago had no effect on parents decisions. Of course we've known its had an impact on brain health for many many decades but I can assure you the general public didnt even think about it other than in punch drunk boxers. No one was talking about RL players getting dementia from playing until the NFL scandal broke.

What has had is all the news over the last 4-5 years on CTE. What we dont know is how significant an effect it has had on parents decision making. To know that will take a few more years yet as covid was a significant variable in the middle of all the CTE spotlight.

and were back to the chicken little again.

I'm missing the point? That the NRL had received enough pressure from stakeholders to even implement concussion protocols shows that the public was plenty aware that concussion
A) happened a lot in League,
B) was a bad thing.

Of course it influenced parents decisions. to say otherwise is ludicris. And now that Concussion has been proven to lead to CTE they have a name for their justifiable fears.

And this bit is the best "but I can assure you the general public didnt even think about it other than in punch drunk boxers" and where are your studies to show this is the case? And which members of the NZ general public did you talk to or interview for this "assurance"?
There have been plenty of stories in the media over the years that parents have been worried about head knocks and what they might lead to and them not wanting their kids to play contact sports.

 

[Perth Red]

anyway back to NZ2

 

[SpaceMonkey]

No its not, its reality. Up till a few years ago no one was talking about concussions and long term implications. Like no one. It was laughed off and play went on. I've been in the dementia field for 30 years, trust me Id know if it had been a focus of science or public fear.

But again re jnr drop off is that due to negligence, lack of funding and lack of attention for the game by the NRL and NZRL? Or is it due to CTE?

If its the former there's a fix to that problem. If its the latter well itd be interesting to know why NZ is trending so different to Australia in that regards.

“A few years ago”? Blokes like Mario Fenech and Ian Roberts have been talking about it for at least a decade and they’re pretty high profile.