New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby

[Te Kaha]

TBF, I think the councils will be supportive from a yes yes but do nothing point of view. But as you note there'll be no money going in and no allowance on infrastructure use etc.

Yep, if they get a team that costs them nothing I'm sure they would be happy. But that's the only way they would get a team.

 

[Matua]

They don’t benefit Australia

it does help the pi against both oz and nz which is good

I literally made that very point way back in this thread

Yes it does. Any PI player who chooses the PIs over NZ so they can play Origin weakens the KIwis team that the Aussies play against. Look at Mulitalo, quite clearly he wanted to play Origin (which he thought he was eligible for) and for the Kiwis, but he couldn't under Origin rules.

 

[Wb1234]

Yes it does. Any PI player who chooses the PIs over NZ so they can play Origin weakens the KIwis team that the Aussies play against. Look at Mulitalo, quite clearly he wanted to play Origin (which he thought he was eligible for) and for the Kiwis, but he couldn't under Origin rules.

If they had to pick they pick origin would come first

you know that

the rules allowed sualli to pick Samoa and play origin

you’ve said origin is the issue with developing internationals

here they’ve come up with a decent solution

origin makes too much money it’s never going anywhere

kiwis still have a fantastic team regardless of players who pick Tonga or samoa

 

[Matua]

If they had to pick they pick origin would coke first

you know that

the rules allowed sualli to pick Samoa and play origin

you’ve said origin is the issue with developing internationals

here they’ve come up with a decent solution

origin makes too much money it’s never going anywhere

Why are you not in favour of opening up Origin to players eligible for NZ? This would be an actual decent solution as it would give players the choice of who they want to play for.

Origin is detrimental to the international game (I know it's not going anywhere, but that doesn't make that any less true), and now the NRL won't let NZ and the PIs play when the Origin games are on which is only going to compound that. This isn't going to help yours and Gobs (and his alts) goal of destroying rugby in NZ.

 

[Wb1234]

Why are you not in favour of opening up Origin to players eligible for NZ? This would be an actual decent solution as it would give players the choice of who they want to play for.

Origin is detrimental to the international game (I know it's not going anywhere, but that doesn't make that any less true), and now the NRL won't let NZ and the PIs play when the Origin games are on which is only going to compound that. This isn't going to help yours and Gobs (and his alts) goal of destroying rugby in NZ.

They are looking at more eligibility changes so potentially kiwi players who play juniors in Australia can (think I read this but not 100 percent)

most of the Australian public are against this however. The arl treads a fine line they don’t want to kill the goose the lays the golden egg

the reality is origin is worth probably 100 million pa to the nrl it’s untouchable

if you want internationals then they will find their own place in the calendar

and me personally I enjoy tonga vs samoa / nz as much as origin

the war cries are amazing

and we need to play an origin at eden park one day

that’s how to promote the game there

 

[Matua]

They are looking at more eligibility changes so potentially kiwi players who play juniors in Australia can (think I read this but not 100 percent)

most of the Australian public are against this however. The arl treads a fine line they don’t want to kill the goose the lays the golden egg

the reality is origin is worth probably 100 million pa to the nrl it’s untouchable

if you want internationals then they will find their own place in the calendar

and me personally I enjoy tonga vs samoa / nz as much as origin

the war cries are amazing

and we need to play an origin at eden park one day

that’s how to promote the game there

I asked you why you don't support it since your goals in this thread is for league to take over rugby in NZ? Or do you, but you just haven't expressed that so far?

Also, why are the Australia public happy to have PIs but not NZers? If someones eligible for Origin does it matter?

Origin at Eden Park in the early 90s would have been awesome, now it would be a one off event that people would attend yet it will do little to promote the game in NZ A game that NZers aren't eligible for isn't the greatest selling tool other than a one off promotion. Games between the Kiwis, Tonga, Samoa, England etc at the same time as Origin is going to inspire more NZ kids.

 

[Perth Red]

Origin eligibility will always be troublesome when you have transient populations.
take Kalyan Ponga. Born in WA, grew up in nz, played jnrs from 13 in qlnd, now plays professionally in nsw. There’s no good reason ponga shouldnt be allowed to play origin for queensland and for nz if he chooses. It’s an outdated criteria re international eligibility and the tier one/tier two nonsense is no longer relevant.

 

[Wb1234]

I asked you why you don't support it since your goals in this thread is for league to take over rugby in NZ? Or do you, but you just haven't expressed that so far?

Also, why are the Australia public happy to have PIs but not NZers? If someones eligible for Origin does it matter?

Origin at Eden Park in the early 90s would have been awesome, now it would be a one off event that people would attend yet it will do little to promote the game in NZ A game that NZers aren't eligible for isn't the greatest selling tool other than a one off promotion. Games between the Kiwis, Tonga, Samoa, England etc at the same time as Origin is going to inspire more NZ kids.

Nz lost one player you can think of due to origin

it’s not an issue for me either way tbh

maybe Aussies don’t care because people don’t see them as a threat yet like nz dunno. I’m not a spokesman for all Aussies

why do tests have to be on during origin. End of year it clean air

don’t have to worry about players picking origin over tests

An end of season test series with most games in nz should do a lot for the game over there shouldn’t it

you want simple answers for complicated questions

 

[Perth Red]

I’m hoping we see a 5 nation tournament at end of year with nz, fiji and to ga games played in nz. That’d be a good step forward. Samoa are rumoured to be touring Europe.

 

[Wb1234]

I’m hoping we see a 5 nation tournament at end of year with nz, fiji and tinga games played in nz. That’d be a good step forward. Samoa are rumoured to be touring Europe.

Tonga to England

 

[Gobsmacked]

NZ and Australia should be playing a 3 game test series at the end of the season . At the same time Tonga and Samoa- Fiji and PNG- England vs France. all with their own tri series name's.
A week break, then all 8 teams compete in a round robin, a top 4 (2 semis)then a final alternating between hemispheres.

Run that consistently outside the WC and we have our main international calendar.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I asked you why you don't support it since your goals in this thread is for league to take over rugby in NZ? Or do you, but you just haven't expressed that so far?

Also, why are the Australia public happy to have PIs but not NZers? If someones eligible for Origin does it matter?

Origin at Eden Park in the early 90s would have been awesome, now it would be a one off event that people would attend yet it will do little to promote the game in NZ A game that NZers aren't eligible for isn't the greatest selling tool other than a one off promotion. Games between the Kiwis, Tonga, Samoa, England etc at the same time as Origin is going to inspire more NZ kids.

Imagine a mid-season representaive window played over three weeks!

State of Origin
Queensland vs New South Wales

Polynesian Cup
Tonga vs Samoa

Melanesian Cup
PNG VS Fiji

Basketville Shield
New Zealand vs England

 

[Brian potter]

Imagine a mid-season representaive window played over three weeks!

State of Origin
Queensland vs New South Wales

Polynesian Cup
Tonga vs Samoa

Melanesian Cup
PNG VS Fiji

Basketville Shield
New Zealand vs England

I like that a lot apart from origin.

origin isn’t going anywhere unfortunately so that’s the best we can hope for.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I like that a lot apart from origin.

origin isn’t going anywhere unfortunately so that’s the best we can hope for.

It provides four games each weekend. That has to be worth something to the broadcasters.

 

[The Great Dane]

Playing talent my friend is the key issue and RL taking control of that and it being diverted away from Union is a big deal

For every PI player RU loses there's a Saffa, European, and increasingly people from other regions, patiently waiting to take that opportunity. Would losing a bunch of PI talent hurt the average standard of RU for a while; maybe. Would the impact of that be felt in any significant way outside of Pacific region; with the possible exceptions of Japan and France, and even in those examples it'd only be fleeting, almost certainly not.

Even if the NRL does 'conquer' (for lack of a better term) the South Pacific, which is still a big if, it will still only be a big fish in a small pond. While RL is bragging about conquering a bunch of impoverished, tiny, third world countries (not having a go, just speaking frankly about the situation), RU will still be making moves and growing in most of the largest markets in the world.

So really what's the big deal? You'll have done the equivalent of giving RU a paper cut, it might sting for a second or two, but it won't do them any real damage.

If the goal is to compete with RU on the international stage, or even just to give them a good kick in the dick, then RL should look to grow the sport in the parts of Europe, Asia, and the Americas that don't traditionally have strong cultures of Union, and particularly the Indian subcontinent and South East Asia.

How you'd go about that in reality is extremely debatable (whether it's realistically possible at all is debatable in some of those cases IMO). But you'd basically be placing yourself in the position of filling the niches in the global market that they haven't yet, but undoubtably plan to in the future. From there you'd build RL's international product to a size where it's competitive with RU's, and must be taken seriously, without having to fight them for every inch at the grassroots level in every nation.

From that point you could leverage that growth to push growth in other nations, but we're getting way ahead of ourselves at that point.

 

[Brian potter]

For every PI player RU loses there's a Saffa, European, and increasingly people from other regions, patiently waiting to take that opportunity. Would losing a bunch of PI talent hurt the average standard of RU for a while; maybe. Would the impact of that be felt in any significant way outside of Pacific region; with the possible exceptions of Japan and France, and even in those examples it'd only be fleeting, almost certainly not.

Even if the NRL does 'conquer' (for lack of a better term) the South Pacific, which is still a big if, it will still only be a big fish in a small pond. While RL is bragging about conquering a bunch of impoverished, tiny, third world countries (not having a go, just speaking frankly about the situation), RU will still be making moves and growing in most of the largest markets in the world.

So really what's the big deal? You'll have done the equivalent of giving RU a paper cut, it might sting for a second or two, but it won't do them any real damage.

If the goal is to compete with RU on the international stage, or even just to give them a good kick in the dick, then RL should look to grow the sport in the parts of Europe, Asia, and the Americas that don't traditionally have strong cultures of Union, and particularly the Indian subcontinent and South East Asia.

How you'd go about that in reality is extremely debatable (whether it's realistically possible at all is debatable in some of those cases IMO). But you'd basically be placing yourself in the position of filling the niches in the global market that they haven't yet, but undoubtably plan to in the future. From there you'd build RL's international product to a size where it's competitive with RU's, and must be taken seriously, without having to fight them for every inch at the grassroots level in every nation.

From that point you could leverage that growth to push growth in other nations, but we're getting way ahead of ourselves at that point.

Realistically the pacific islands is the only area/region that RL can be dominant in as like you say it has zero presence in South Africa, Japan, Argentina and south east Asia etc.

Having said all that it’s still a good area/region to dominate as there is some incredible athletes perfect for our game in Fiji, Samoa, Tonga and obviously PNG.

The game also needs to target the Solomon Islands, New Caledonian and Vanuatu.

Obviously New Zealand as well.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Realistically the pacific islands is the only area/region that RL can be dominant in as like you say it has zero presence in South Africa, Japan, Argentina and south east Asia etc.

Having said all that it’s still a good area/region to dominate as there is some incredible athletes perfect for our game in Fiji, Samoa, Tonga and obviously PNG.

The game also needs to target the Solomon Islands, New Caledonian and Vanuatu.

Obviously New Zealand as well.

New Caledonia is bidding for a spot in the Queensland Cup.

 

[Brian potter]

New Caledonia is bidding for a spot in the Queensland Cup.

All went quite since Covid but I believe it’s back on and consists of both New Caledonian and Vanuatu.

 

[The Great Dane]

Realistically the pacific islands is the only area/region that RL can be dominant in as like you say it has zero presence in South Africa, Japan, Argentina and south east Asia etc.

Having said all that it’s still a good area/region to dominate as there is some incredible athletes perfect for our game in Fiji, Samoa, Tonga and obviously PNG.

The game also needs to target the Solomon Islands, New Caledonian and Vanuatu.

Obviously New Zealand as well.

The only way to change the sport’s lack of presence in new markets is by investing in spreading the sport in that market.

Also excellent athletes can be found in every society on the planet, and new fans is where the money is at anyway. Fiji is a great example, they’ve produced a bunch of players at this point, yet it hasn’t resulted in any significant new revenue streams being created for the sport in Fiji its self.

BTW, I specifically said that RL should avoid places where RU is established, such as RSA, Japan, and Argentina, at least initially…

 

[Gobsmacked]

For every PI player RU loses there's a Saffa, European, and increasingly people from other regions, patiently waiting to take that opportunity. Would losing a bunch of PI talent hurt the average standard of RU for a while; maybe. Would the impact of that be felt in any significant way outside of Pacific region; with the possible exceptions of Japan and France, and even in those examples it'd only be fleeting, almost certainly not.

Even if the NRL does 'conquer' (for lack of a better term) the South Pacific, which is still a big if, it will still only be a big fish in a small pond. While RL is bragging about conquering a bunch of impoverished, tiny, third world countries (not having a go, just speaking frankly about the situation), RU will still be making moves and growing in most of the largest markets in the world.

So really what's the big deal? You'll have done the equivalent of giving RU a paper cut, it might sting for a second or two, but it won't do them any real damage.

If the goal is to compete with RU on the international stage, or even just to give them a good kick in the dick, then RL should look to grow the sport in the parts of Europe, Asia, and the Americas that don't traditionally have strong cultures of Union, and particularly the Indian subcontinent and South East Asia.

How you'd go about that in reality is extremely debatable (whether it's realistically possible at all is debatable in some of those cases IMO). But you'd basically be placing yourself in the position of filling the niches in the global market that they haven't yet, but undoubtably plan to in the future. From there you'd build RL's international product to a size where it's competitive with RU's, and must be taken seriously, without having to fight them for every inch at the grassroots level in every nation.

From that point you could leverage that growth to push growth in other nations, but we're getting way ahead of ourselves at that point.

It's not so much about the Pacific.
New Zealand have been producing the best Rugby Union players since forever, the All blacks brand is a global one. They pull big crowds anywhere they go. So easily recognised.
International Rugby union is the pinnacle and the All blacks are the pinnacle of that.
The All blacks Jersey is the most prestigious in all forms of Rugby around the world.
So what happens when regularly Kiwis beat the Kangaroos and that rivalry becomes like SOO ?
What happens when all the best Rugby players are playing league in NZ and the NRL?
If the best Rugby game you can watch in the world no longer is the All blacks but the Kiwis?

Make no mistake about it, this is the biggest and most important battle between the codes on the international front and Rugby league is winning it, it's a long way away but it's happening.

Another big powerhouse is England and if you haven't noticed Rugby League just had a very successful WC there, the Super League looks in good shape and at the same time Rugby Union just lost 2 long standing clubs with others on the brink.

But all that aside. The NRL are growing, the revenue is growing , the number of teams are growing. We will soon enough be in a position where NRL players are the highest paid Rugby players in the world !
That puts Rugby League as the most prestigious game.

The WC in soccer is big ( the biggest)
But all the best players are in the premier league.
If Rugby League has the ( premier league) we will end up dominating the world.