New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby

[Matua]

Yes it is

the warriors were matching the all blacks when they were doing well

rugby league is hugely popular in nz

more so now with the collapse of super rugby

supe r rugby is in a place it will probably never really recover from now

Bro, there's a thread in the NZ section of this place discussing the poor state of league in NZ at the moment.

 

[flippikat]

Wow. If fans know that I bet they'll dump all backs in a second.
Nobody cares. Ppl in nz love rugby as much as ppl in Sydney love league & melbournians love their weird game..stop

The All Blacks will always pull the crowds here. That'll never ever change.

The problem is the lower tiers - the NPC (National Provincial Championship) has been dropped from a fanatically popular 2nd tier from the mid 70s to mid 90s, to a very distant (and low pulling) 3rd tier under Tests & Super Rugby... and meanwhile Super Rugby has lost South Africa (and the money & Europe-friendly timezone they brought), and Australia has fallen back from their late 1990s peak, so the 5 NZ teams dominate... which has become too predictable & difficult to market for broadcasters - especially trying to get decent money out of Australia.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

The All Blacks will always pull the crowds here. That'll never ever change.

The problem is the lower tiers - the NPC (National Provincial Championship) has been dropped from a fanatically popular 2nd tier from the mid 70s to mid 90s, to a very distant (and low pulling) 3rd tier under Tests & Super Rugby... and meanwhile Super Rugby has lost South Africa (and the money & Europe-friendly timezone they brought), and Australia has fallen back from their late 1990s peak, so the 5 NZ teams dominate... which has become too predictable & difficult to market for broadcasters - especially trying to get decent money out of Australia.

Seeing how far Super Rugby has fallen since South Africa left the competition makes me worried about the NRL. Australia is a small country and is competing against richer and larger European markets.

Our main threat isn't AwFuL. Rugby union in England, France, Ireland Scotland and Wales is our main competitor.

What happens when those competitions become larger and offer significantly more money than the NRL?

Players will jump ship. Which is what they did when Super League offered better pay and French rugby was throwing big bucks at our talent.

Don't forget about Japanese club rugby. If it grows then we're in a world of strife. We need to develop a following in Asia. I get laughed at when I mention Singapore, which sums up the stupidity of the average NRL fan from Sydney who thinks a meat tray raffle and pokie machines is all we need.

 

[Perth Red]

The All Blacks will always pull the crowds here. That'll never ever change.

The problem is the lower tiers - the NPC (National Provincial Championship) has been dropped from a fanatically popular 2nd tier from the mid 70s to mid 90s, to a very distant (and low pulling) 3rd tier under Tests & Super Rugby... and meanwhile Super Rugby has lost South Africa (and the money & Europe-friendly timezone they brought), and Australia has fallen back from their late 1990s peak, so the 5 NZ teams dominate... which has become too predictable & difficult to market for broadcasters - especially trying to get decent money out of Australia.

Hasnt crowds in nz for union rallied since the change to super rugby?

 

[Canard]

Domestic Rugby has only ever been a supplement to its International game.

For Union it's International competition first and the rest is just a bonus. It can not be compared to NRL in this sense.

Domestic Rugby in the UK, for example, is in a terrible state with clubs going bankrupt.

But even taking that into account, if the aforementioned $105M is the correct TV money, then the NRL is massively unders in comparison, when you compare how many teams there is and the ratings of each code.

 

[Wb1234]

Bro, there's a thread in the NZ section of this place discussing the poor state of league in NZ at the moment.

Yeh the warriors having to play in Australia for years during covid will do that

they still make a profit though

but hey maybe selling themselves off to private equity will work out for New Zealand union !

 

[Wb1234]

Domestic Rugby has only ever been a supplement to its International game.

For Union it's International competition first and the rest is just a bonus. It can not be compared to NRL in this sense.

Domestic Rugby in the UK, for example, is in a terrible state with clubs going bankrupt.

But even taking that into account, if the aforementioned $105M is the correct TV money, then the NRL is massively unders in comparison, when you compare how many teams there is and the ratings of each code.

Once the club competitions die off then so does the flow of players for internationals

the all blacks will be like the Harlem globetrotters playing in Europe to make the money to keep it going

meanwhile test and club matches in nz and australia keep their steady decline

the funniest thing is sky nz pay the nrl as much for one New Zealand rugby league team as the entire Australian super rugby competition gets

lol

 

[Pippen94]

The All Blacks will always pull the crowds here. That'll never ever change.

The problem is the lower tiers - the NPC (National Provincial Championship) has been dropped from a fanatically popular 2nd tier from the mid 70s to mid 90s, to a very distant (and low pulling) 3rd tier under Tests & Super Rugby... and meanwhile Super Rugby has lost South Africa (and the money & Europe-friendly timezone they brought), and Australia has fallen back from their late 1990s peak, so the 5 NZ teams dominate... which has become too predictable & difficult to market for broadcasters - especially trying to get decent money out of Australia.

All kiwi would better in nz then vs Aussie teams. That's reason they split trans Tasman netball league up.

 

[Pippen94]

Kiwi's ready to burn all blacks jerseys when NRL expand (just ignore warriors barely hanging on for 30 years)

 

[Te Kaha]

Once the club competitions die off then so does the flow of players for internationals

the all blacks will be like the Harlem globetrotters playing in Europe to make the money to keep it going

meanwhile test and club matches in nz and australia keep their steady decline

the funniest thing is sky nz pay the nrl as much for one New Zealand rugby league team as the entire Australian super rugby competition gets

lol

You really don't know anything about NZ do you.

Sky doesn't pay as much as it does for the Warriors, it paid as much as it did to keep it out of Sparks hands. The warriors have historically only pulled 200-300K per game, the same as the average Super Rugby game. Non Warriors games only managed 50oddK. Sky loses money on League It makes money ensuring competitors don't have much sport. Sky also doesn't pay for Super Rugby or the NPC, they pay for the All Blacks they would still pay most of what they do now if they didn't have the added games. When covid caused the cancellation of Super Rugby sky still paid up large because the All Blacks could still pay. And to put it into perspective, even the low rated NPC games are on Sky 1 over any League games at the same time.

The "club" competitions in NZ wont die off. The NPC has been semi professional for years and only needs to break even. And outside the main centres the NPC is the only game in town. Players will still play in those comps with the chance of getting into the All Blacks. It's only when they know they don't have a chance they move on. and now that International play only has a three year stand down, playing overseas doesn't necessarily stop you representing your heritage or birth country just because you have previously played for another.
Added to that Super Rugby in NZ doesn't really have a salary cap. Contracts are centrally controlled. Franchises only top up players salaries, so no amount of increased Salary cap from the NRL will entice All Blacks away. It will only be if they want to. Much like the warriors wanting to keep RTS and him taking a pay cut to try and make the All Blacks at the world cup. Something looking less likely by the day. He moved because he wanted to, not because of the money. Ex All Blacks make millions overseas once they think they are passed it in NZ. Plus if they are good enough they get a sabbatical to play in Japan or Europe for a year for a million plus while still under NZR employ.

Of course the biggest issue is concussion. And if it isn't addressed contact team sports will be dead in 30 years. Even now Pacific Island and Māori are moving to Basketball in record numbers. And they make up 90% of the League playing youth.
If you think Rugby is dying in NZ, League will be dead first. And it will not be money that decides it, player welfare will. At this rate in a few decades the only "rugby" played will be touch.

 

[Wb1234]

You really don't know anything about NZ do you.

Sky doesn't pay as much as it does for the Warriors, it paid as much as it did to keep it out of Sparks hands. The warriors have historically only pulled 200-300K per game, the same as the average Super Rugby game. Non Warriors games only managed 50oddK. Sky loses money on League It makes money ensuring competitors don't have much sport. Sky also doesn't pay for Super Rugby or the NPC, they pay for the All Blacks they would still pay most of what they do now if they didn't have the added games. When covid caused the cancellation of Super Rugby sky still paid up large because the All Blacks could still pay. And to put it into perspective, even the low rated NPC games are on Sky 1 over any League games at the same time.

The "club" competitions in NZ wont die off. The NPC has been semi professional for years and only needs to break even. And outside the main centres the NPC is the only game in town. Players will still play in those comps with the chance of getting into the All Blacks. It's only when they know they don't have a chance they move on. and now that International play only has a three year stand down, playing overseas doesn't necessarily stop you representing your heritage or birth country just because you have previously played for another.
Added to that Super Rugby in NZ doesn't really have a salary cap. Contracts are centrally controlled. Franchises only top up players salaries, so no amount of increased Salary cap from the NRL will entice All Blacks away. It will only be if they want to. Much like the warriors wanting to keep RTS and him taking a pay cut to try and make the All Blacks at the world cup. Something looking less likely by the day. He moved because he wanted to, not because of the money. Ex All Blacks make millions overseas once they think they are passed it in NZ. Plus if they are good enough they get a sabbatical to play in Japan or Europe for a year for a million plus while still under NZR employ.

Of course the biggest issue is concussion. And if it isn't addressed contact team sports will be dead in 30 years. Even now Pacific Island and Māori are moving to Basketball in record numbers. And they make up 90% of the League playing youth.
If you think Rugby is dying in NZ, League will be dead first. And it will not be money that decides it, player welfare will. At this rate in a few decades the only "rugby" played will be touch.

So a semi professional competition is your hope for union in New Zealand ?

hahahhaa

checkmate

league is flush with money that’s why it didn’t need to sell off a big chunk of revenue in perpetuity to a private equity firm ie effectively a pay day loan

Losing South Africa from super rugby was a major major own goal by nz and Australia

thanks for that btw

when the warriors do well their tv ratings are on par with the all blacks

 

[Pippen94]

So a semi professional competition is your hope for union in New Zealand ?

hahahhaa

checkmate

league is flush with money that’s why it didn’t need to sell off a big chunk of revenue in perpetuity to a private equity firm ie effectively a pay day loan

Losing South Africa from super rugby was a major major own goal by nz and Australia

thanks for that btw

when the warriors do well their tv ratings are on par with the all blacks

Somebody who knows about nz is telling you what situation really is. Be wise to listen

 

[Matua]

Yeh the warriors having to play in Australia for years during covid will do that

they still make a profit though

but hey maybe selling themselves off to private equity will work out for New Zealand union

It's been in a poor state regardless of Covid. You're focussing on the Warriors but it's also grassroots where the issues are. Where I'm from there used to be a 6-8 team comp now they barely can run 4 teams.

Ditching the U20s comp put a big dent in league and NZ. Lots of young guys were heading into the league system as they could get compensated earlier. Without it they now stay in the academies system in rugby.

The All Blacks will always pull the crowds here. That'll never ever change.

The problem is the lower tiers - the NPC (National Provincial Championship) has been dropped from a fanatically popular 2nd tier from the mid 70s to mid 90s, to a very distant (and low pulling) 3rd tier under Tests & Super Rugby... and meanwhile Super Rugby has lost South Africa (and the money & Europe-friendly timezone they brought), and Australia has fallen back from their late 1990s peak, so the 5 NZ teams dominate... which has become too predictable & difficult to market for broadcasters - especially trying to get decent money out of Australia.

The NPC is actually in fairly good health as a third tier comp (good for development and fan support), most provinces are financially stable these days (which wasn't always the case when they were striving to keep it at a higher level) and they get good viewing figures for the size of the comp.

Super Rugby Pacific in its current structure has been running for one year and the two unions have recently reached a revenue sharing agreement (which is really just to stop the Aussies whining in the papers once a month). So it really is too early to claim it a flop. It's financially viable enough for NZ to subsidise two PI teams.

And as other posters have already discussed NZ rugby is a top down model, the ABs are drivers of everything, they bring in the revenue and subsidise the rest of the game.

 

[Te Kaha]

So a semi professional competition is your hope for union in New Zealand ?

hahahhaa

checkmate

league is flush with money that’s why it didn’t need to sell off a big chunk of revenue in perpetuity to a private equity firm ie effectively a pay day loan

Losing South Africa from super rugby was a major major own goal by nz and Australia

thanks for that btw

when the warriors do well their tv ratings are on par with the all blacks

So you really don't know anything about NZ.

The NPC isn't the "hope" for Rugby in NZ. I was just showing up your claim that the "club" game will die. Especially when most of the juniors signed by NRL clubs are Rugby juniors, and it's still not stopped the talent coming through to the NPC, Super rugby or the All Blacks.

The warriors have come close to the All Blacks in ratings only a half dozen times in their existence. A few weeks ago the NZ Women's Rugby team got higher ratings than any Warriors game ever.

Losing South Africa and a third of all games in the middle of the night is an own goal? How can any rational person think that? The best players in SA play in Europe, they weren't in Super Rugby and The All Blacks still pay South Africa two or three times a year, that's the BEST SA players. And South African Money hasn't been relevant in years since it wasn't evenly divided.

And League is not flush with money. Compare the amount of teams the NRL has to fund, compared to the amount of teams the NZR has to fund. As for private equity, that was an investment trying to leverage Silver Lakes international contacts. If Silver Lake increases NZR Rugby income by more than 6% a year than NZR is making more from the deal that selling a stake in the new company did.

 

[Wb1234]

Somebody who knows about nz is telling you what situation really is. Be wise to listen

So you really don't know anything about NZ.

The NPC isn't the "hope" for Rugby in NZ. I was just showing up your claim that the "club" game will die. Especially when most of the juniors signed by NRL clubs are Rugby juniors, and it's still not stopped the talent coming through to the NPC, Super rugby or the All Blacks.

The warriors have come close to the All Blacks in ratings only a half dozen times in their existence. A few weeks ago the NZ Women's Rugby team got higher ratings than any Warriors game ever.

Losing South Africa and a third of all games in the middle of the night is an own goal? How can any rational person think that? The best players in SA play in Europe, they weren't in Super Rugby and The All Blacks still pay South Africa two or three times a year, that's the BEST SA players. And South African Money hasn't been relevant in years since it wasn't evenly divided.

And League is not flush with money. Compare the amount of teams the NRL has to fund, compared to the amount of teams the NZR has to fund. As for private equity, that was an investment trying to leverage Silver Lakes international contacts. If Silver Lake increases NZR Rugby income by more than 6% a year then NZR is making more from the deal that selling a stake in the new company did.

not only do I know a lot about nz rugby league I know a lot about you as a poster and how you were treated on fight club

those were the days lol

go the warriors

 

[Wb1234]

It's been in a poor state regardless of Covid. You're focussing on the Warriors but it's also grassroots where the issues are. Where I'm from there used to be a 6-8 team comp now they barely can run 4 teams.

Ditching the U20s comp put a big dent in league and NZ. Lots of young guys were heading into the league system as they could get compensated earlier. Without it they now stay in the academies system in rugby.


The NPC is actually in fairly good health as a third tier comp (good for development and fan support), most provinces are financially stable these days (which wasn't always the case when they were striving to keep it at a higher level) and they get good viewing figures for the size of the comp.

Super Rugby Pacific in its current structure has been running for one year and the two unions have recently reached a revenue sharing agreement (which is really just to stop the Aussies whining in the papers once a month). So it really is too early to claim it a flop. It's financially viable enough for NZ to subsidise two PI teams.

And as other posters have already discussed NZ rugby is a top down model, the ABs are drivers of everything, they bring in the revenue and subsidise the rest of the game.

You’re right about the under 20s

massive mistake

 

[Te Kaha]

So you really don't know anything about NZ.

not only do I know a lot about nz rugby league I know a lot about you as a poster and how you were treated on fight club

those were the days lol

go the warriors

No you really don't know anything about NZ and being a returning banned member doesn't mean you know any more. Player numbers are plummeting and basketball is the beneficiary.

 

[Colk]

Look the idea of rugby league taking over union in NZ is fanciful. It is about as likely as league taking over fumbleball in fumbleball states.

Nevertheless though that isn’t the point as you should always have a presence in every big market as particularly now most people who watch sport, watch a multitude of different sports.

The market should provide more money for the competition firstly and secondly provide more talent. A second team in NZ might struggle to do the first (although it should at least break even) but should definitely provide the latter.

 

[Wb1234]

Stuff

i.stuff.co.nz

Here’s a former all blacks crapping himself over a second nz nrl side

Then there’s the pay day loan the nzru took out which sees revenue going to a private equity firm forever

finances of the nzru, ra and clubs in general are terrible and in no position to match rugby league

All Black's meltdown over Rugby League's plans for New Zealand

amp.rugby365.com

 

[Matua]

Stuff

i.stuff.co.nz

Here’s a former all blacks crapping himself over a second nz nrl side

Then there’s the pay day loan the nzru took out which sees revenue going to a private equity firm forever

finances of the nzru, ra and clubs in general are terrible and in no position to match rugby league

All Black's meltdown over Rugby League's plans for New Zealand

amp.rugby365.com

Did you actually read the articles you've posted? Even the headline of the first one does not support your comments. And the second one is just a repackaging of the first with a headline that does not match the content.

When on the troll you should at least read the stuff you're posting.