New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby

[Perth Red]

It's really too early to make a conclusion on Super Rugby. The competition has had one season and I think Sky was pretty happy with how it went overall. I think it will need a couple of seasons to bed in, for the Oz and PI teams to become more competitive. Covid changed the landscape for Super rugby.

With the addition of the USA rugby comp there's actually been more depth in NZ rugby in the last few years as players can play NPC and if they don't get a Super/Japanese contract they can then go to the US and get paid. My home province, Hawkes Bay, has a team of mostly Super Rugby and USA comp players. What domestic league team would get similar quality and support in Hawkes Bay?

If Japan properly joins Super rugby and slightly better aligns their club comp then the depth remaining in the country will likely increase.

I also don't think, useless as they are, that World Rugby would let SH rugby fall over. Losing Oz and NZ at a high level would be detrimental to the sport.

Do they have a cap or something? With twiggy backing The force I’m surprised he hasn’t gone out and bought the test team by now all the money he has

until nzrl can up their revenue from the poxy $8mill it currently is RL has no chance of making any dent in union in a meaningful way. It’s a shame the nrl doesn’t have the same licensing agreement for nz that afl has for WA. That would see nzrl boosted significantly.

 

[Gobsmacked]

Do they have a cap or something? With twiggy backing The force I’m surprised he hasn’t gone out and bought the test team by now all the money he has

until nzrl can up their revenue from the poxy $8mill it currently is RL has no chance of making any dent in union in a meaningful way. It’s a shame the nrl doesn’t have the same licensing agreement for nz that afl has for WA. That would see nzrl boosted significantly.

Why do keep saying this 8 million nonsense.... the Warriors turn over double that!
The NRL is the superior club Rugby competition in the Pacific.
Having just 1 of those is massive. 2 would be literally doubling the revenue and exposure of the sport in NZ , perhaps even more so with the intrest and rivalry created.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Instead of giving each club $5m over the salary cap to piss up a wall, give it to the players. Kids from an RU background in Australia and New Zealand will take notice of the NRL and give it more consideration as a career option.

 

[Matua]

Do they have a cap or something? With twiggy backing The force I’m surprised he hasn’t gone out and bought the test team by now all the money he has

I assume that the Oz teams have a cap. Although I'm not sure the entire test team would want to move to WA.

Why do keep saying this 8 million nonsense.... the Warriors turn over double that!

The Warriors are privately owned, their revenue/turnover is practically irrelevant to the domestic structure of league in NZ. As I noted earlier domestic league has been suffering recently, the Warriors turnover doesn't help with that.

 

[Gobsmacked]

I assume that the Oz teams have a cap. Although I'm not sure the entire test team would want to move to WA.


The Warriors are privately owned, their revenue/turnover is practically irrelevant to the domestic structure of league in NZ. As I noted earlier domestic league has been suffering recently, the Warriors turnover doesn't help with that.

That's complete nonsense. Having a professional team is reason why kids strap boots on to begin with.
Running around the back yard doing the benji step.

 

[Wb1234]

Why do keep saying this 8 million nonsense.... the Warriors turn over double that!
The NRL is the superior club Rugby competition in the Pacific.
Having just 1 of those is massive. 2 would be literally doubling the revenue and exposure of the sport in NZ , perhaps even more so with the intrest and rivalry created.

Superior club competition is an understatement

the nrl is the flagship club rugby competition on planet earth

from a financial viewpoint taking on rugby union in nz is a far easier task than say taking on afl in wa sa and vic

out of all the places union is played on earth nz would have to be the biggest prize

without a strong all blacks international rugby union would be even more boring than it currently is

at least they throw the ball around a bit and don’t just want to kick a penalty goal every two seconds

 

[The Great Dane]

It's really too early to make a conclusion on Super Rugby.

No it's not.

The ARU agreeing to extend their participation in Super Rugby for a further ten years will effectively kill what little real interest there was left in club rugby in Australia, which will have further knock-on effects on the Wallabies and NZRU in the long term.

In this country there's simply zero mainstream interest in regular matches against the Kiwi and Fijian sides, there's no will from the NZRU to allow the changes necessary to make RU a competitive product on the field with the NRL, AFL, and ever-increasingly other codes and sports as well, and the lack of a Australian national champion (or any kind of stakes locally) makes it borderline impossible for the ARU and clubs to grow interest in the league and sides.

The WC coming here again in 2027 will see a boost in interest for a while, but it won't lead to sustainable growth without a cemented domestic league to capture that interest.

The covid era showed the best way forward for Australian rugby; an independent national league with a champions league between willing nations after the season, but for whatever reasons the ARU, and RU establishment more generally, refuses to go that route.

 

[Perth Red]

Why do keep saying this 8 million nonsense.... the Warriors turn over double that!
The NRL is the superior club Rugby competition in the Pacific.
Having just 1 of those is massive. 2 would be literally doubling the revenue and exposure of the sport in NZ , perhaps even more so with the intrest and rivalry created.

that nzrl total revenue. Until that changes there is no way any effort at a jnr and grassroots level will chang anything. Another top tier club in nz will make hardly any difference to union popularity, anymore than the warriors have done.

 

[The Great Dane]

that nzrl total revenue. Until that changes there is no way any effort at a jnr and grassroots level will chang anything. Another top tier club in nz will make hardly any difference to union popularity, anymore than the warriors have done.

Yeah if the NRL wanted to have a real impact in NZ, and keep in mind that when I say that I just mean take a significant portion of market share, then they'd need at least 4/5 clubs and a long term plan to market the sport and grow the grassroots nationally.

It'd cost hundreds of millions of dollars and take at least a generation to see any significant returns, but it'd be doable if the NRL had the will and the balls to attempt it.

However, such an investment in NZ wouldn't be worth it when half of the Australian market is underdeveloped IMO. Building a solid fan base in just Victoria or WA alone (arguably SA as well) would see a significantly better return on investment, and is more achievable as well.

 

[Te Kaha]

That's complete nonsense. Having a professional team is reason why kids strap boots on to begin with.
Running around the back yard doing the benji step.

Except it doesn't. Junior numbers are in decline. The NRL is on Pay TV on a secondary channel and warriors games are on late night delayed on free to air. when will they get a chance to view it. Assuming they will. Just because you subjectively view League as the better code doesn't mean anybody else will.
The "soccer mum" maybe a cliché but it is real. Why do you think the fastest growing sport among Māori and Pacific Island kids is basket ball? Because the long term effects of concussion are reported heavily and league still prides itself on the "big collisions". Added to that Steven Adams alone has put more money in to NZ junior basketball in the last ten years than the NRL has put into NZ ever. And its paying off big time.

Superior club competition is an understatement

the nrl is the flagship club rugby competition on planet earth

from a financial viewpoint taking on rugby union in nz is a far easier task than say taking on afl in wa sa and vic

out of all the places union is played on earth nz would have to be the biggest prize

without a strong all blacks international rugby union would be even more boring than it currently is

at least they throw the ball around a bit and don’t just want to kick a penalty goal every two seconds

You really don't know what you are talking about do you. Your belief that the "the nrl is the flagship club rugby competition on planet earth" is nothing more than the "falling tree in the woods" analogy. It can be as good as it likes, but if nobody watches it, it doesn't matter.

And you view on "financial standpoint" is laughable. in the last 20 odd years do you know how many All Blacks went overseas for the money rather than stay and play for them? One. And you think just because an NRL team offers big money they will defect? You think the NRL has more financial clout, but it also has vastly more teams to look after as well, making the "clout" irrelevant.

 

[Canard]

For mine, NZ has no market outside of Auckland that makes an attractive destination for an NRL team.

Rugby always will be about Internationals, domestic comps below are more akin to Sheffield Shield to Australian Cricket. People like @Te Kaha can confirm this, but there has been instances whereby All Blacks players were withdrawn from the Super Rugby for extended periods in the lead up to World Cups. Can you imagine clubs in the NRL letting the ARLC withdraw Kangaroos players for 4 or 6 weeks before a test match?

As for Europe Rugby being a threat to the NRL, have you seen state of the game in the UK at the moment?

Famous clubs like Wasps have gone into administration. There equity deal seems to have been an unmitigated disaster, and they are looking at reducing the number of teams just to survive.

English rugby giants Wasps follow Worcester into administration

English rugby giants Wasps were Monday placed into administration with all the players made redundant -- the second Premiership club to suffer the fate in just three weeks.

www.rugby.com.au

RFU and Premiership to face DCMS inquiry as Wasps confirm redundancies

The RFU and Premiership Rugby will face a parliamentary inquiry over the state of the domestic game after Wasps joined Worcester in administration

www.theguardian.com

 

[Te Kaha]

For mine, NZ has no market outside of Auckland that makes an attractive destination for an NRL team.

Rugby always will be about Internationals, domestic comps below are more akin to Sheffield Shield to Australian Cricket. People like @Te Kaha can confirm this, but there has been instances whereby All Blacks players were withdrawn from the Super Rugby for extended periods in the lead up to World Cups. Can you imagine clubs in the NRL letting the ARLC withdraw Kangaroos players for 4 or 6 weeks before a test match?

As for Europe Rugby being a threat to the NRL, have you seen state of the game in the UK at the moment?

Famous clubs like Wasps have gone into administration. There equity deal seems to have been an unmitigated disaster, and they are looking at reducing the number of teams just to survive.

English rugby giants Wasps follow Worcester into administration

English rugby giants Wasps were Monday placed into administration with all the players made redundant -- the second Premiership club to suffer the fate in just three weeks.

www.rugby.com.au

RFU and Premiership to face DCMS inquiry as Wasps confirm redundancies

The RFU and Premiership Rugby will face a parliamentary inquiry over the state of the domestic game after Wasps joined Worcester in administration

www.theguardian.com

That's exactly right NZR has full control over the players. if they are told they have to sit out for several games the clubs have no choice but to comply.
This is what people don't understand. In NZ the club game is very far in second place behind Internationals. Super Rugby is an afterthought to the fans, the players and administration. A second NRL club will not fix that. Especially when there will be next to zero local players.

 

[Gobsmacked]

I love how this thread has flushed out the Union fans

 

[Gobsmacked]

Union is a slow boring game that is hard to understand. It's not just that there's stoppages, it's the stoppages go for an eternity. The vulnerability of getting stuck laying in the ruck getting your head stomped on is a nightmare for people considering taking up the sport. Hands up , who wants cauliflower ears ? "I do" "i do"!!!

Rugby league took all the worst parts of that sport out and made a better one! It not just that Rugby league is better, it was specifically designed to be better !
The whole point of league is to get the best running rugby possible.

The NRL is a better competition: more teams, more history , tribal rivalries , better coverage, more money and better players!! Playing a far more exciting form of Rugby!

I'm sure Super Rugby HQ wouldn't be at all concerned by another NRL team on there doorstep
" the NRL with a brand new team and 11 million to spend on players "
" That's fine "

 

[Perth Red]

Union is a slow boring game that is hard to understand. It's not just that there's stoppages, it's the stoppages go for an eternity. The vulnerability of getting stuck laying in the ruck getting your head stomped on is a nightmare for people considering taking up the sport. Hands up , who wants cauliflower ears ? "I do" "i do"!!!

Rugby league took all the worst parts of that sport out and made a better one! It not just that Rugby league is better, it was specifically designed to be better !
The whole point of league is to get the best running rugby possible.

The NRL is a better competition: more teams, more history , tribal rivalries , better coverage, more money and better players!! Playing a far more exciting form of Rugby!

I'm sure Super Rugby HQ wouldn't be at all concerned by another NRL team on there doorstep
" the NRL with a brand new team and 11 million to spend on players "
" That's fine "

the warriors couldn’t keep hold of one of their few decent players in RTS, you think nzru with a revenue of $188mill a year is going to be worried about a second nrl club?

 

[Matua]

That's complete nonsense. Having a professional team is reason why kids strap boots on to begin with.
Running around the back yard doing the benji step.

One club will not make a difference at all. Especially if it’s runs as appallingly as the current “professional club in NZ.

NZ kids have 3 levels of teams to follow in rugby in NZ. In my home town kids will emulate players from all three levels. A new NRL team in Christchurch is not going to see a wholesale switch to league, even after a brand new thing bump.

If the NRL really want to make a difference they need to throw money at grass roots. As I said earlier the local comp where I’m from is basically dead. Kids might run around the back yard doing the Benji step but on the weekend the only option will be for them to do the Will Jordan step.

 

[Matua]

I love how this thread has flushed out the Union fans

Bro, some of us can and do enjoy both sports and don’t pretend otherwise to appease posters stuck in a boring arse code war.

 

[Te Kaha]

Union is a slow boring game that is hard to understand. It's not just that there's stoppages, it's the stoppages go for an eternity. The vulnerability of getting stuck laying in the ruck getting your head stomped on is a nightmare for people considering taking up the sport. Hands up , who wants cauliflower ears ? "I do" "i do"!!!

Rugby league took all the worst parts of that sport out and made a better one! It not just that Rugby league is better, it was specifically designed to be better !
The whole point of league is to get the best running rugby possible.

The NRL is a better competition: more teams, more history , tribal rivalries , better coverage, more money and better players!! Playing a far more exciting form of Rugby!

I'm sure Super Rugby HQ wouldn't be at all concerned by another NRL team on there doorstep
" the NRL with a brand new team and 11 million to spend on players "
" That's fine "

in your opinion. Which has zero understanding of League or Rugby in NZ. Your opinion is completely subjective and represents only you behind your keyboard.

Again you show your ignorance with the comment "I'm sure Super Rugby HQ wouldn't be at all concerned by another NRL team on there doorstep". Because there is no such place.

11 million to spend on players? You do know that doesn't even cover the All Black backline. NZR pays the players not the Super Rugby clubs. Of course you are ignoring the real problem, what good is 11 million going to to when there are no locals to spend it on. Junior numbers have been in free fall for years.

And NZers actually are more intelligent than you aussies, we can support multiple codes without losing our minds. You clearly can't.

 

[Matua]

For mine, NZ has no market outside of Auckland that makes an attractive destination for an NRL team.

Rugby always will be about Internationals, domestic comps below are more akin to Sheffield Shield to Australian Cricket. People like @Te Kaha can confirm this, but there has been instances whereby All Blacks players were withdrawn from the Super Rugby for extended periods in the lead up to World Cups. Can you imagine clubs in the NRL letting the ARLC withdraw Kangaroos players for 4 or 6 weeks before a test match?

As for Europe Rugby being a threat to the NRL, have you seen state of the game in the UK at the moment?

Famous clubs like Wasps have gone into administration. There equity deal seems to have been an unmitigated disaster, and they are looking at reducing the number of teams just to survive.

English rugby giants Wasps follow Worcester into administration

English rugby giants Wasps were Monday placed into administration with all the players made redundant -- the second Premiership club to suffer the fate in just three weeks.

www.rugby.com.au

RFU and Premiership to face DCMS inquiry as Wasps confirm redundancies

The RFU and Premiership Rugby will face a parliamentary inquiry over the state of the domestic game after Wasps joined Worcester in administration

www.theguardian.com

Just for clarification: The Players Union has stipulations on how many weeks rest players have to get. ABs who go on EOYTs still need to have those breaks so they’re managed during Super. I.e it’s not just the rugby union randomly pulling players out of Super.

The ABs control over players is more apparent at NPC level where they will often release players from the squad to get game time.

 

[mongoose]

yeah I dunno. ARU thought that the Wallabies alone would keep Union strong in this country, but they didn't. The game has declined massively over the last 20 years, why? because there is no decent domestic comp. All the hugely talented dual coders end up in League - Ponga, Cronk, Sua'ali, Angus Crichton. Rugby fans of course always argue that they never wanted these players and they would be no good in Rugby lol maybe NZ is different but seems like the options to have a strong professional career hinge on being picked for the All Blacks.

Basketball will be big at grassroots but won't transfer to any meaningful representation professionally, Australia has already been through this in the 90s and again now.