New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby

[Perth Red]

That's no different to what happens here a lot of the time. RL talent getting scholarships to play RU at some of the top private schools is the norm in a lot of places, and why RU types claim basically every kid that's strapped on a boot as "their" junior lol.

Where you start and the path you take to get there isn't nearly as important as the destination in this case, and I see no reason why systems that aren't reliant on the schooling system couldn't be created in NZ if that was found to be beneficial or necessary.

It's all academic anyway as the NZRL don't have the resources and have proven to be incompetent historically, and the NRL has shown no interest in getting involved in Kiwi RL in that manner for whatever reasons.

What happened with the whole Jnr strategy thing Gould was supposed to be heading up? It seems the first time ARLC was willing to stick its nose in NZRL business?

 

[Matiunz]

What happened with the whole Jnr strategy thing Gould was supposed to be heading up? It seems the first time ARLC was willing to stick its nose in NZRL business?

Covid prevented him from doing anything then took up the dogs role.
Shame in the sense that he had enough mana that those in the nz game seemed willing to hear him out and he seemed genuinely invested in the Warriors.
On the other hand the dogs haven’t worked out so well since he started there either

 

[Wb1234]

They've announced today on Facebook they've have got their first investor interest. No further details

Good to see you follow the bid you said doesn’t exist, on Facebook

if they had seen what you’ve written about them
They probably would’ve rejected the friend request

 

[Perth Red]

Covid prevented him from doing anything then took up the dogs role.
Shame in the sense that he had enough mana that those in the nz game seemed willing to hear him out and he seemed genuinely invested in the Warriors.
On the other hand the dogs haven’t worked out so well since he started there either

Bit weird it was all hinging on one bloke taking up the job? Was it a warriors thing or an arlc thing? I thought it had wider implications than just the warriors jnr set up?

 

[The Great Dane]

What happened with the whole Jnr strategy thing Gould was supposed to be heading up? It seems the first time ARLC was willing to stick its nose in NZRL business?

Covid F'd it up, then he got offered a better deal at the Dogs.

Pretty sure the Warriors just had him on as a consultant where the Dogs have him as their football manager, so you can't really blame him for taking the more stable job. He probably wouldn't have been willing to move to NZ fulltime, which would have made a more permanent and influential position at the Warriors difficult I imagine.

 

[Wb1234]

Bit weird it was all hinging on one bloke taking up the job? Was it a warriors thing or an arlc thing? I thought it had wider implications than just the warriors jnr set up?

Gus got the wahs job with the idea to copy panthers

wanted to improve juniors got the arlc to increase funding for the nzrl

then he left

 

[Matua]

Honestly I'm not sure how much of a problem it really is now. Even if they play on the same weekend there's multiple timeslots and I don't think they clash directly that often when both teams are at home. TBH it's All Blacks games that the NRL should try to avoid putting the Warriors up against head to head, because there have been a few clashes there in recent years.

The Warriors often clash with NZ derby matches. It's very annoying having to watch one delayed. First world problems.

 

[Matua]

That's no different to what happens here a lot of the time. RL talent getting scholarships to play RU at some of the top private schools is the norm in a lot of places, and why RU types claim basically every kid that's strapped on a boot as "their" junior lol.

Where you start and the path you take to get there isn't nearly as important as the destination in this case, and I see no reason why systems that aren't reliant on the schooling system couldn't be created in NZ if that was found to be beneficial or necessary.

It's all academic anyway as the NZRL don't have the resources and have proven to be incompetent historically, and the NRL has shown no interest in getting involved in Kiwi RL in that manner for whatever reasons.

Your first paragraph doesn't work in a NZ context. All the schools are rugby, scholarships just take kids from one rugby school to another one.

I can see the point you're making, but even if the NRL backed the chances of it succeeding is extremely low. There were four league teams in the province Matiu and I are from when I was at school. We played Sundays. If the games were played Saturdays 90% of players in that comp wouldn't play due to rugby commitments. We'd often have defaults as teams had too many players away on interschool matches. That is why I suggested setting up league schools.

Currently the best pathway for league players in NZ is to stay in top rugby schools.

 

[Matua]

Haha yeah took on Chiefs as a second team once they started taking more magpies that the Canes would overlook.
Wasn’t aware st John’s played league but great if they did - wonder who they actually play?
Obviously HBHS and NBHS would be the big 2 to target, very strong Union teams and plenty of students other than that maybe Flaxmere and Tamatea? Te Aute was Piri Weepus school that he wanted to play NRL but had no where to play league, Karamu used to struggle to get a 1/2 decent Union side and I’m not sure the likes of Havelock/Taradale would have the interest -Certainly not Lindisfarne
Probably still have to play some Waikato or Wellington/Manawatu/Taranaki schools to get some competition but not sure if the travel would be too much of a challenge there

St Johns don't play league as far as I know, I was just suggesting they could be the league school in the Bay in my theoretical set up of league schools throughout the country.

Hastings and Napier aren't going to swap, Lindersfarne are in their central regions comp and too "private", Te Aute is too small, St Johns is the outlier and could probably increase their role if a big league school.

And yeah, my setup would mean the schools in each region would have to play other regions so would involve travel, but Wb has spent 500 pages telling us how cashed up the NRL is so surely they can sponsor a dedicated NZ schools league comp. Similar to the Super8.

Billy Weepu used to go back to Wainui on weekends to play league. My cousin was Billy's midfield partner in the 1stXV (yep Billy was a rather large midfielder) and would often go down with him and have a run. Not sure if Piri did the same when he was there.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

The Warriors often clash with NZ derby matches. It's very annoying having to watch one delayed. First world problems.

Yeah NZ derby matches is a different story, they happen more often than Blues home games. Some scheduling effort to avoid them would be useful.

 

[The Great Dane]

Your first paragraph doesn't work in a NZ context. All the schools are rugby, scholarships just take kids from one rugby school to another one.

I can see the point you're making, but even if the NRL backed the chances of it succeeding is extremely low. There were four league teams in the province Matiu and I are from when I was at school. We played Sundays. If the games were played Saturdays 90% of players in that comp wouldn't play due to rugby commitments. We'd often have defaults as teams had too many players away on interschool matches. That is why I suggested setting up league schools.

Currently the best pathway for league players in NZ is to stay in top rugby schools.

No shit Sherlock, but that's not because it's impossible, it's because grassroots and junior RL is an absolute shambles in NZ for the most part.

Canberra is very similar to NZ in that RU and the private school system has traditionally had something of a strangle hold on juniors comps starting at under 14s (though that grip has been loosening in recent times). Most of the greatest RL players to come through the system in Canberra proper played RU at least at some point during their education. We learnt long ago that trying to out do RU at their own game is expensive and ineffectual, and it's better to work around them and offer a different pathway to professionalism to those that don't find their pathway appealing.

A mate put this concept to me in a very succinct manner recently; you're destine to be less than them if you can't be better than them, and it's better to be different than them than less than them.

I'm not on the ground in NZ so maybe I'm wrong, but it seems extremely unlikely that RL is going to be able to outcompete the NZRU/RU establishment in the talent pool by going head to head with them in the school system. So, and I totally understand that this is much easier said than done, you've got to be smart and find ways work around them.

 

[Wb1234]

No shit Sherlock, but that's not because it's impossible, it's because grassroots and juniors RL is an absolute shambles in NZ for the most part.

Canberra is very similar to NZ in that RU and the private school system has traditionally had something of a strangle hold on juniors comps starting at under 14s (though that grip has been loosening in recent times). Most of the greatest RL players to come through the system in Canberra proper played RU at least at some point during their education. We learnt long ago that trying to out do RU at their own game is expensive and ineffectual, and it's better to work around them and offer a different pathway to professionalism to those that don't find their pathway appealing.

A mate put a concept to me in a very succinct manner; if you can't be better than them you're destine to be less than them, and it's better to be different than them than less than them.

I'm not on the ground in NZ so maybe I'm wrong, but it seems extremely unlikely that RL is going to be able to outcompete the NZRU/RU establishment in the talent pool by going head to head with them in the school system. So, and I totally understand that this is easier said done, you've got to be smart and find ways work around them.

We can just use their infrastructure at junior level to provide talent for as many nz nrl teams as want from under 16s to first grade

just comes down to having wages high enough in the nrl that we get all the best talent

 

[The Great Dane]

We can just use their infrastructure at junior level to provide talent for as many nz nrl teams as want from under 16s to first grade

just comes down to having wages high enough in the nrl that we get all the best talent

It's a little more complex than that in reality, but yeah being able to offer better contracts and a higher standard of living on average is a big thing. The NZRU isn't the ARU though, they have the means to compete for the best talent if they wish to.

 

[Wb1234]

It's a little more complex than that in reality, but yeah being able to offer better contracts and a higher standard of living on average is a big thing. The NZRU isn't the ARU though, they have the means to compete for the best talent if they wish to.

For us top down expansion supported by money is the way to go

top all blacks earn around one million or so if they don’t get a sanbatical to top it up

and the union cap isn’t rising whilst ours will. Just keep rising

 

[Wb1234]

Bennett applies to become New Zealand coach as renewed Meninga rivalry beckons

‘Wants to get on a loser’: V’landys’ cheeky swipe at Bennett as frontrunner for Kiwis job revealed

www.foxsports.com.au

Didn’t they already appoint someone ?

 

[The Great Dane]

For us top down expansion supported by money is the way to go

top all blacks earn around one million or so if they don’t get a sanbatical to top it up

and the union cap isn’t rising whilst ours will. Just keep rising

The SR cap is irrelevant.

The way RU is going it's quickly becoming impossible for most nations to compete with the contracts on offer in larger markets like the Top 14. It's only a matter of time before nations like Australia and NZ will be forced to allow their players to play in those leagues and remain eligible to play internationals or lose them, and at that point the top players earning up to $1-1.5mil a season won't be particularly unusual, especially if you include endorsements, 3rd parties, and the such.

It'll probably be a while before the NRL can compete with that, if ever, but what the NRL can offer is a better entry level and average wage, and more exposure younger, and those can be powerful things.

 

[Thatwasnthighref]

Bennett applies to become New Zealand coach as renewed Meninga rivalry beckons

‘Wants to get on a loser’: V’landys’ cheeky swipe at Bennett as frontrunner for Kiwis job revealed

www.foxsports.com.au

Didn’t they already appoint someone ?

For the Kiwis gig? No, NZRL is still faffing about. Stacey has apparently applied as well, but Bennett should be a no brainer. But NZRL usually make about as much sense as an underground airport so fk knows what they'll do.

 

[Matua]

No shit Sherlock, but that's not because it's impossible, it's because grassroots and junior RL is an absolute shambles in NZ for the most part.

Canberra is very similar to NZ in that RU and the private school system has traditionally had something of a strangle hold on juniors comps starting at under 14s (though that grip has been loosening in recent times). Most of the greatest RL players to come through the system in Canberra proper played RU at least at some point during their education. We learnt long ago that trying to out do RU at their own game is expensive and ineffectual, and it's better to work around them and offer a different pathway to professionalism to those that don't find their pathway appealing.

A mate put this concept to me in a very succinct manner recently; you're destine to be less than them if you can't be better than them, and it's better to be different than them than less than them.

I'm not on the ground in NZ so maybe I'm wrong, but it seems extremely unlikely that RL is going to be able to outcompete the NZRU/RU establishment in the talent pool by going head to head with them in the school system. So, and I totally understand that this is much easier said than done, you've got to be smart and find ways work around them.

I didn't say go head to head with them in the school system, I said to use areas of the school system where rugby isn't wholly dominant. That would fit into your "be smart and find ways work around them."

 

[MugaB]

For the Kiwis gig? No, NZRL is still faffing about. Stacey has apparently applied as well, but Bennett should be a no brainer. But NZRL usually make about as much sense as an underground airport so fk knows what they'll do.

Bennett just walks into stacked sides... heyya fellas!
Points.... give me 4 push ups, now lets go for a 10km run and play footy for rest of the arvo...
Crowd goes YAY!!!!!!

 

[Wb1234]

The SR cap is irrelevant.

The way RU is going it's quickly becoming impossible for most nations to compete with the contracts on offer in larger markets like the Top 14. It's only a matter of time before nations like Australia and NZ will be forced to allow their players to play in those leagues and remain eligible to play internationals or lose them, and at that point the top players earning up to $1-1.5mil a season won't be particularly unusual, especially if you include endorsements, 3rd parties, and the such.

It'll probably be a while before the NRL can compete with that, if ever, but what the NRL can offer is a better entry level and average wage, and more exposure younger, and those can be powerful things.

And that would be the death of super rugby

the top nrl players are on 1.2 to 1.5 million plus origin tests and sponsorship