New Zealand v West Indies, 1st Test, Dunedin

[byrne_rovelli_fan82]

Another washed out day???

 

[attila_the_gorilla]

They started very late, after 2 pm, but it`s going now. There was a strange situation, the groundsmen threw some `kitty litter` on some damp areas to soak up the water, but the stuff was rough and very uncomfortable for the fielders when they fell on it, so it had to be removed. Where`s the good old saw dust when you need some?

McCullum went fishing for an outswinger, didn`t wanna hit it just wanted to put bat on ball for no reason at all, found the edge. That`s something I don`t quite understand when players want to just block the wide ball without wanting to score. It`s needless.

Franklin was a bit unlucky, turned a ball off his legs for four, but slipped and hit his wicket. He had previously been troubled with a few short balls so he may have been a bit closer to his stumps than normal too.

And Ryder pulled one to midwicket. He didn`t look that good today, edged a few toward the slips, wasn`t happy with himself.

 

[Iafeta]

You're just being a dick now...

Clearly I was talking about his discipline at the crease - and clearly apart from a few innings it's lacking. He's often dismissed playing attrocious shots, and he often plays attrocious shots, which sometimes end in the stand, and sometimes he just misses

I'm no different to you, I played with and against guys that went on to play first class and international cricket- I just don't wank on about it in these forums

Taylor is not the first nor the last player to get out to an ugly swoosh. In this very innings McIntosh got out to a horrible shot, even the captain just hit one straight down the throat of third man and he's played 80 odd test matches. Hayden, Ponting, Langer, Martyn - they all had similar issues at the start of their careers in bringing their 'potential' to test level. Just like Taylor (although his record at a similar stage would be fairly comparable if not better) and Martin Crowe. In Australia though you can take the lessons you have learned, take a year out and score 5-6 centuries in a very competitive first class competition.

Let's see how he goes over the next 12 months, if he shows a bit of maturity in his game he will be a good test cricketer. But there's not enough talent behind him at first class level to get the scythe out for him off the back of that as opposed to the way it is in the Australian system. It's an encouraging start to his career IMO but he now needs to accept more leadership in a brittle, young batting line up. A bloke like John Wright or Andrew Jones or Mark Richardson in this current lot would be like absolute gold but they're not there for us.

At the moment, the bloke who should be feeling the squeeze is Jamie How. 15-16 odd tests without a century is not test match standard for an opening bat.

 

[Iafeta]

They started very late, after 2 pm, but it`s going now. There was a strange situation, the groundsmen threw some `kitty litter` on some damp areas to soak up the water, but the stuff was rough and very uncomfortable for the fielders when they fell on it, so it had to be removed. Where`s the good old saw dust when you need some?

McCullum went fishing for an outswinger, didn`t wanna hit it just wanted to put bat on ball for no reason at all, found the edge. That`s something I don`t quite understand when players want to just block the wide ball without wanting to score. It`s needless.

Franklin was a bit unlucky, turned a ball off his legs for four, but slipped and hit his wicket. He had previously been troubled with a few short balls so he may have been a bit closer to his stumps than normal too.

And Ryder pulled one to midwicket. He didn`t look that good today, edged a few toward the slips, wasn`t happy with himself.

The ball swung away. He could have left it, but he would have looked the fool if it had come back and clipped off stick.. and he'd faced a lot of deliveries that swung back into him. Outside off stump a little is a nervous proposition of whether to play or not, add a touch of away swing and who knows. The very principle Hadlee himself worked off.

 

[attila_the_gorilla]

The ball swung away. He could have left it, but he would have looked the fool if it had come back and clipped off stick.. and he'd faced a lot of deliveries that swung back into him. Outside off stump a little is a nervous proposition of whether to play or not, add a touch of away swing and who knows. The very principle Hadlee himself worked off.

The ones that were coming back were reverse swinging yorkers with the old ball. The new ball was only gonna swing away from that bowler, I don`t remember who it was. It was never gonna come anywhere near the stumps. IMO McCullum doesn`t leave enough, he`s trying to be patient, but doesn`t seem to enjoy it.

 

[Iafeta]

He's stuck between a rock and a hard place isn't he? I mean everyone loves him bashing the Poms around with Ryder, and he then feels that's his optimum way is to be aggressive, so he goes away to England and largely fails with it. He's put back down the order, tries to scale it down, plays a defensive prod and gets caught behind. Cricket has become a lot more aggressive by intent probably due firstly to Greatbatch at the 1992 World Cup, then Jayasuriya/Kaluwitharana, more prominently the Australian style of play and now 20/20 that we're starting see batsmen in trying to attain the higher scoring rates to force a result playing at more deliveries and also playing more expansive strokes. Some batsmen have coped with the changes well, I'm not sure Brendon's quite got his tempo right yet.

 

[attila_the_gorilla]

Yeah I reckon. I wouldn`t even mind him going in the air if he feels that`s the only way he can be productive. As long a he`s in control of the shots. In this match I feel hitting balls straight over the bowlers head would be quite easy because the pitch is slow, but he never attempted it.

 

[typicalfan]

The ones that were coming back were reverse swinging yorkers with the old ball. The new ball was only gonna swing away from that bowler, I don`t remember who it was. It was never gonna come anywhere near the stumps. IMO McCullum doesn`t leave enough, he`s trying to be patient, but doesn`t seem to enjoy it.

McCullum likes to feel bat on ball, he isnt the only guy around with that frame of mind and the best way for him to play is with his natural game, not being stupid, but being in control of his aggression.

He was beaten by a good delivery, the balls prior didnt swing and got caught in the line and length that was being bowled but got done for a little swing and followed the ball. His 25 was important as it was part of a large partnership, so his score was probably worth a little bit more than it shows because once he got out there wasnt really going to be the same type of resistance

 

[typicalfan]

As far as his form goes i think he puts and gets put under too much pressure to score runs. He does it to himself he needs to just bat for himself for a bit imo and forget about the team, he just needs that really big score, like Haddin did in Adelaide.

He is aggressive enough without taking risks.

 

[Beavers Headgear]

Yeah I reckon. I wouldn`t even mind him going in the air if he feels that`s the only way he can be productive. As long a he`s in control of the shots. In this match I feel hitting balls straight over the bowlers head would be quite easy because the pitch is slow, but he never attempted it.

The slower the pitch, the harder it is to drive, especially in the air

 

[attila_the_gorilla]

Hmmmm and I thought the reason bowlers use the slower ball is to catch the batsmen in the air. The same way on a slow pitch it's more natural to drive the ball in the air than to keep it on the ground. Just need to time it well to make sure it goes far enough. Sure it is always risky, but if McCullum was feeling unhappy with his strike rate, he could have tried it.

 

[Beavers Headgear]

They use the slower ball to get a batsmen through his shot early and lift the ball into the air. On a slow pitch, unless the ball is in the perfect slot, i find the ball the toughest to drive personally, if it comes on you can do what you want with it

 

[attila_the_gorilla]

I agree. On slow wickets when driving along the ground it`s hard to get enough power into the shot. It`s not hard to time the ball on slower wickets, the only issue is that you need to generate your own pace. And that is easiest if you`re willing to go in the air.

 

[Iafeta]

Is Chattergoon the most flukiest batsman of all time? He bats worse than my grandma and he's still there (albeit IMO amazingly luckily off a not out decision on referral).

It's hard to drive in the air here. It's slow. McCullum did it once and was a nanosecond in timing of being caught at short mid on. That position was put in to stop McCullum from doing it, and the one time he tried it he was early through the shot but still got it over the top of the stumps. A half second earlier in timing and McCullum would have been deplored for how he got out. It's a fine line between being aggressive and being patient, Taylor and McIntosh lost out and I feel the later batsmen tried not to be put in the same basket.

 

[African Monkey]

He's out now.

 

[Iafeta]

Chattergoon gone. The ugliest 13 runs you could hope to see. It would be interesting watching Willie Watson at one end and this bloke at the other, same love of a good solid technique.

 

[attila_the_gorilla]

It's hard to drive in the air here. It's slow.

That`s an oxymoron. If you`d said it`s hard to drive on the ground because it`s slow, that would be correct. But a slow pitch is more suited to controlled lofted drives, because you have more time to swing the bat and time it right. Unfortunately NZ (and the West Indies as well, for that matter) batsmen are not great at these shots because they are not used to playing against slow bowling. That`s where u learn how to generate your own pace onto the ball. The subcontinent teams would be loving this pitch.

But to be fair, it also depends on the type of bat you carry. Indian bats tend to be quite heavy so they can generate more weight into the shot, but Aussie bats are lighter cos generally there`s more pace on the ball. Also, Indian bats tend to have a nice bow in the middle which facilitates lofting the ball. I`m not entirely sure what kind of bats NZ players use nowadays.

 

[Beavers Headgear]

You don't have more time to time it properly because a harder swing makes it a lot harder to time because unless you get it 100% right you will sky it somewhere else

 

[Iafeta]

That`s an oxymoron. If you`d said it`s hard to drive on the ground because it`s slow, that would be correct. But a slow pitch is more suited to controlled lofted drives, because you have more time to swing the bat and time it right. Unfortunately NZ (and the West Indies as well, for that matter) batsmen are not great at these shots because they are not used to playing against slow bowling. That`s where u learn how to generate your own pace onto the ball. The subcontinent teams would be loving this pitch.

But to be fair, it also depends on the type of bat you carry. Indian bats tend to be quite heavy so they can generate more weight into the shot, but Aussie bats are lighter cos generally there`s more pace on the ball. Also, Indian bats tend to have a nice bow in the middle which facilitates lofting the ball. I`m not entirely sure what kind of bats NZ players use nowadays.

It's harder to control it in the air off slower pitches. Often you're too far through the shot and you can turn a straight drive in the air on the on side s your bottom hand comes through. It's not a matter of getting it in the air, it's a matter of having the proper control over the shot and diminishing the likelihood of being caught. A slight deviation in the bowler's speed coupled with a naturally slow pitch could cause havoc with the batsman's timing. These sort of wickets is why for instance Chris Harris went through a real phase in the late 1990's for caught and bowled dismissals because the ball would hold up in the wicket and the batsmen would be too far through the strokes to gain any control.

As far as Indians go, remember they're produced the likes of Bishen Bedi who would rarely rip the ball but would deceive a lot of batsmen and lull them into driving in the air off slow unresponsive pitches where batsmen would either get under it too much and hole out or drag the bottom hand through in an attempt to control the balance of the bat.

 

[Iafeta]

Is Gillespie injured? I thought one of the reasons he was in the side was to go through the tail - he hasn't bowled against Taylor whose put on 80 carefree runs with Chanderpaul as easy as you like. It's times like these where we could rely on Bond to rip out a couple with seering yorkers that you realise how screwed New Zealand Cricket is by the farcical banning of ICL players if just for that one right arm fast bowler from Canterbury having his international career savaged by bureaucracy and the BCCI wanting to get a greater share of 20/20 monies.