No Love for Waugh

[dubopov]

El Duque...Everyone who disagrees with you should be put down..wake up pal !!!!!!!!!!..........and as a matter of interest,do I detect some western paranoia ??...I don't care which State good players come from,they should be given a chance..Steve Waugh is still good but so was Healy,Mark Waugh,Jones etc etc etc when they were relieved of Australian duty..shit,even Bill Lawry wasn't over the hill when he got axed !!..Time to move on....

 

[El Duque]

No, but your comment was rediculous. How on Earth is he the better twin??

Lower average. Less matches. Less wickets. Less runs.

Really makes sense.

 

This message has been deleted by the manager or assistant manager.

 

[Willow]

Dubopov:
I don't agree.
Mark Taylor was given a mile of chances and was so close to being dropped that it wasn't funny.Taylor came back and equaled Don Bradman's innings record.
Steve Waugh is a long way from that sort of pressure.

The selectors dropped Steve Waugh from the ODI side and we are now witnessing an even more aggressive player in Test cricket.

He's playing great. He has public support. And he's going to be hard to shift.

 

[Kiwi]

On Steve Waugh I think it was a commentator that said before his 70 odd runs, that in the last 15 innings he has averaged lower than Shane Warne with the bat. Not good from a top order batter, and hardly one in form, or scoring runs at the crease as Willow put it. Willow also seems to have forgotten the problems last year with Steve lashing out at the media a few timesafter games, deserved or not it was hardly the act of someone who is a good media captain.

 

[Willow]

Kiwi:
I do seem to have forgotten when Steve Waugh was lashing out against the media... can you elaborate?

 

[Kiwi]

You don't remember his leaving a press confrence in a foul mood only to mouth off as he left? Unfortunately for him it was caught on tape so to speak by the media. I can't remember what he said but he did it more than once. It was all over the papers, and many were calling it uncaptain like. I will see if I can't dig it up from somewhere.

I notice you haven't disputed my statment about him being out of form.

 

[dubopov]

Willow...I suppose the main point I'm trying to make in regard to Steve Waugh is that there are at least 10 Australian batsmen who would walk into most Test sides(I won't count Zimbabwe or Bangla Desh),yet they have been held back by the 'old guard' over the years because the 'old guard' have been collectively been doing the job against inferior opposition..Look at my thread about QLD and England..In all seriousness,how many Poms would get in the QLD side ??...How many Sris ?? This is the basis of my argument...As far as the Captaincy goes..when you are dealing with such a high class side who couldn't guide them to victory??...SteveWaugh has been great..The writing's on the wall as Kiwi said with the batting stats...and look at Love's stats against England...he averages 513.00 against them this season !!!
Cheers
Dubopov

 

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[Willow]

Kiwi:
Fair go, one thing at a time.

I think his form has been up and down but he is currently having a good summer. Its a credit to him because he has come back from some injuries.

Every captain has the odd dummy spit. Can't say that Steve Waugh is that bad. Allan Border used to tell them to f*ck off. Sometimes the media deserve it.

But I can't recall any run ins with the media in recent memory.

 

[Willow]

Dubopov:
I agree 100% that the some playersin the past were being held back the old guard.
But imo, the selectors have been hitting few sixes of late. They dropped Ian Healy to make way for Adam Gilchrist and more recently, they dropped Mark Waugh.

If you don't think Steve Waugh is deserving of his spot on playing ability (which I disagree on) then at least look at his captaincy record. It is very very hard to argue against his abilities as a leader. Sure, we have a great side but the captain is bringing it together perfectly.

I know Ricky Ponting and Shane Warne are on the short list but in all seriousness, who is the best Australian captain playing today?

 

[Kiwi]

This is a list of Steve Waughs last 22 innings. Even with the 103 against Pakistan and the odd 50, it's hardly the record of a man in form.

England - 77
England - 53
England - 34
England - 12
England - 7
Pakistan - 103 not out
Pakistan - 0
Pakistan - 0
Pakistan - 31
South Africa- 42
South Africa - 7
South Africa - 14
South Africa - 0
South Africa - 32
South Africa - 30
South Africa - 90
South Africa - 13
South Africa - 8
NZ - 67
NZ - 8
NZ - 0
NZ - 3

 

[Kiwi]

One doesn't have to do much with batters like Hayden, Langer, Gilchrist, Ponting and Martyn getting you a shite load of runs, partnered with bowlers like McGrath, Lee, Gillespie, Bichel, McGill and Warne taking wickets and killing other teams. A shaved baboon could captain the aussie cricket team to victories. Steve Waugh does little more than go out for the coin toss and change the bowlers ( who have their own field placings ) when they get tired.

 

[dubopov]

Hi Kiwi..Thanks for those stats..it backs up what I've had to say..surely Maher,Love,Symonds,Katich,Clarke,Hodge,Elliott,Cox.Lehmann,Blewett,Hussey and a few others could have performed better,...particularly against the really weak sides like England and New Zealand !!!!

 

[Kiwi]

Hey back off the Kiwi cricket team. We may not have the all star players the aussie team does, but in test we are one of the few teams who actually give you guys a good run, and in the one dayers we've got your number .

 

[Willow]

Thanks for getting the stats Kiwi.

I refer you to my earlier posts of Steve Waugh's current form and his overall record as captain.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is a view from the ABC cricket site;
<h2>End of an innings</h2> It looks like the end is in sight for Australian Test captain Steve Waugh's glittering career. While he will play in the Melbourne and Sydney Tests over the next fortnight, his less than impressive form over the past year has prompted speculation that time may be up for one of Australia's great cricketers. Waugh has made it clear he wants to continue to captain Australia, but there is increasing speculation he may retire after the Sydney Test, rather than face the ignominy of being dropped. Should Waugh step down or should he be retained for his experience and captaincy? Who should be the next Test captain and how difficult will it be for them to live up to Waugh's remarkable record? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The word is that Steve Waugh is keen to continue. Moreover, he has the support of the players and he has the support of the public. On top of that, he is playing well... work it out from that.

 

[Kiwi]

On top of that, he is playing well

You did look at the stats I put up right? One could hardly say averaging 28.6 in his last 22 innings is "playing well" when you see what Hayden, Langer, Martyn, Gilchrist and Love have been doing. Then when you consider that Steve has an average of 49.44, 28 hundreds it makes his form look pathetic. To average over 20 runs less than your career average over 22 innings is a serious form slump. It is not "playing well"

 

[Willow]

"A shaved baboon could captain the aussie cricket team..."
"Steve Waugh does little more than go out for the coin toss and change the bowlers ( who have their own field placings ) when they get tired."
Are you fair dinkum? lol... give yourself more credit mate.

I compared the Australian team under Mark Taylor vs the the team under Steve Waugh.. very similar personnel but the team flourished under Waugh.
Mark Taylor was great fighter in the Allan Border style... but Steve Waugh went on the front foot - 'damn the torpedos, full steam ahead'... ever since then, other teams have feared the idea of taking on Australia.

 

[Willow]

"You did look at the stats I put up right? "
I'm referring to the curent season. Every player is judge on his current form.
Wake up.

 

[Willow]

I didn't mean wake up as in 'wake up stupid'... I meant wake up as in look at what I already said in italics...ie current
No offence intended