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No Love for Waugh

K

Kiwi

Guest
I'm referring to the curent season. Every player is judge on his current form.
Wake up.

If that is the case then there is an even stronger arguement to say bye bye Waugh your holding Love back. Because Love's "current" season has been Hayden like.

 
K

Kiwi

Guest
I compared the Australian team under Mark Taylor vs the the team under Steve Waugh.. very similar

The difference is not so much in the teams Taylor and Waugh have / hadunder them as much as it is the big difference in the calibre of opposition. I hate to say it but the rest of the world has dropped off since Taylor was captain of the aussie team.
 
Willow

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
110,086
Yes but Steve Waugh is the captain.
You're talking about taking out the leadership just to let some newcomer in.
Thats what all this about.. put Love in to replace Waugh.....?
Listen to yourselves.
Love will have no trouble getting in the side now. More than likelt, Lehmann will have to have to make way. lol... it's choice between Waugh or Lehmann.

What I find interesting is that we've had similar arguments saying that 'once the Waughs are gone, Australian cricket is dead'
...and yet we are fighting over foundations of ascent as new players come through.
Australian cricket is as healthy as ever.

oh and btw, no one has answered my question yet:
I know Ricky Ponting and Shane Warne are on the short list but in all seriousness, who is the best Australian captain playing today?

 
K

Kiwi

Guest
I'll start by answering this

oh and btw, no one has answered my question yet:
I know Ricky Ponting and Shane Warne are on the short list but in all seriousness, who is the best Australian captain playing today?

The question has only one answer, Steve Waugh, because the question asks who is the best aussie captain playing today, and technically Steve Waugh is the only aussie test captain still playing the game today. So i'll take it you mean who should be aussie captain, and I would have to say on test form over the last few years, leadership ect Ponting should be captain right now.

Now to the rest of your statement.

Being captain should not mean automatic test selection. You should still have to perform to an acceptable standard in all your other duties. Now if Steve Waugh was doing this, what do you think the chances of him bowling in this test would have been? No chance in hell of it happening. People are calling for Hassain to be dropped from the English team, yet the only difference between him and Steve Waugh is, Steve is lucky enough to have the players I have mentioned before winning all the games and doing all the work. If Australia was losing then Waugh would be gone by now,or you'd be calling for his blood. Simple fact is Australia is winning so the public is happy to keep the relic in the side for services recieved in the past.

Steve Waugh in his day is easily one of the greatest batters to play the game, thing is, it's no longer his day.


 
Willow

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
110,086
Kiwi: "the only difference between him and Steve Waugh is, Steve is lucky enough to have the players..."
One thing I have noticed is that Australians tend to stick by their captains. Compare this this to Englnad who have changed captains regularly. There is only one captian in the Australian side while the poms always have two or three.
The results are on the scoreboard.

"Being captain should not mean automatic test selection.."
I disagree... an out of form Mal Meninga received automatic status because everyone knew the opposition were scared shitless of him. Make no mistake, in cricket Steve Waugh is a feared opponent.

"Simple fact is Australia is winning so the public is happy to keep the relic in the side for services recieved in the past. "
Your opinion.
Australia has the best cricket team in the world... so the selectors and the AIS must have it wrong. :)
 
K

Kiwi

Guest
One thing I have noticed is that Australians tend to stick by their captains. Compare this this to Englnad who have changed captains regularly. There is only one captian in the Australian side while the poms always have two or three.
The results are on the scoreboard.

The results being on the score board have little to do with Steve Waugh, he contributes nothing with the bat so often. The results on the score board are all the other players getting runs and taking wickets while Steve Waugh sits on his thumb doing jack.


I disagree... an out of form Mal Meninga received automatic status because everyone knew the opposition were scared shitless of him. Make no mistake, in cricket Steve Waugh is a feared opponent.

Steve Waugh is no longer feared. When ever he comes to the crease he is targetted and hammered by the bowlers who more often than not get him out for a low score. He is now a liability and can't be relied upon to save an innings if needed. The Steve Waugh fear factor is gone.


Your opinion.
Australia has the best cricket team in the world... so the selectors and the AIS must have it wrong. :)

Your right about it being the best cricket team in the world, and that is the only reason Steve Waugh is still playing. Steve Waugh wouldn't make most peoples top30 batters list on "current" form.

Basically your whole stance is the team is winning and so the captain should get a free ride no matter how out of form he is. Thats what you whole arguement comes down to. dropping Steve Waugh isn't about "changing captains regularly", it's about Steve Waugh not batting as well as he use to, it's about Steve Waugh not being as good as he use to be and being carried by the rest of the team. Maybe it'll take a Martin Love to bugger off over seas for good before Steve will be dropped like he should be.

 
Willow

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
110,086
Kiwi:
"...your whole stance is the team is winning and so the captain should get a free ride"
I thought I gave half a dozen reasons why Steve Waugh should be retained.

Its true that he's captaincy and onfield leadership is a big factor. Why shouldn't it be?
Perhaps we should ask the team what they think.

As for Martin Love Love buggering off overseas, I think you're overeacting.
 
K

Kiwi

Guest
Here is a quick list of batters I'd select over Steve Waugh

Hayden
Langer
Ponting
Martyn
Tendulkar
Dravid
Sewag
Astle
Richardson
Cairns
Love
Vaughan
White
Gibbs
Kirsten
Kallis
McKenzie
Lara
Rhodes
Ganguly
Chanderpaul
Hooper
Lehman
Ul Haq
Dippenaar
Youhana
Elahi
Jayasuriya
Carlisle
Atapattu
 
K

Kiwi

Guest
Willow
Perhaps we should ask the team what they think.

El Duque
We've heard what the team think and imo what they say carries more weight thant of dubopov and co.

Of course his team MATES are gonna stick up for him. They'd stick up for him even if they were losing and he hadn't scored a run in years.


Willow
I thought I gave half a dozen reasons why Steve Waugh should be retained.

Every time one of your other reasons falls down in the debate you fall back on "but he is the captain". If he wasn't the captain your whole debate would be shot to hell because you wouldn't have to fall back on ever time.

 
Willow

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
110,086
No, apart from him being an inspiration on the field, I also said he is in form atm and is getting runs. I also said he has overcome a shoulder injury and is fitter now then he was last year. I also mentioned that he coming in as a stop gap bowler now...
I mentioned... oh what the heck... did I mention that he is Australia's version of God?
 
E

El Duque

Bench
Messages
3,845
Of course his team MATES are gonna stick up for him. They'd stick up for him even if they were losing and he hadn't scored a run in years.

How do you know?


 
K

Kiwi

Guest
Bronco you wont get an arguement out of me for dumping Stephen Flemmingdue topoor form. I don't believe that being captain should gain you automatic selection. Yes Flemming has been an awesome captain, but he is there to score runs, which he hasn't, so he deserves to go. Unfortunately NZ's win ratio isn't as bad as it use to be before Flemming so they keep him. It's all about winning, if the team is winning they leave the captain alone no matter how poor his form, if the team is losing bye bye captain out of the team. It's a f**ked up system.
 
K

Kiwi

Guest
How do you know?

How man players do you see not sticking up for their captains in what ever sport when the going gets tough? I'm yet to see one.
 
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