Non Footy Chat Thread II

[I'm a loser baby...]

How about the one where he's an officer in the British Royal Navy but they've all been at sea just a bit too long, Bourneblower?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

And you seem to think that obfuscation is an argument. I never said either of those things.

Although death would be pretty high on the list, wouldn't you agree?

It is quite simply a fact that gun related violence in the USA is out of control. This is because every silly prick can get a gun, even the emo kid at school who's sick of being bullied and thinks a semi-automatic is the solution. When was the last school shooting in Australia?

While we're at it, what do you need a f**king AR-15 for?

Criminals find ways to get guns. But the US catch cry of "I need guns because criminals have them" is a fallacy. Most criminals only shoot other criminals.

I eagerly await a silly response.

And again you imply that people only want guns to stop criminals from killing them. The vast majority of criminals, even violent criminals, don't want to kill their victims. They want to control them, and they do so through the threat of violence. This is infinitely more common than murder, and therefore renders murder statistics irrelevant. Owning a gun offers significant protection from this kind of victimisation.

 

[Bandwagon]

I have made my argument through several posts in this thread. If merkins didn't feel safer with guns they wouldn't have them. That's a fact.

Is the 'average person' less safe when they own a gun? According to the stats they are. But nobody is the average person, and I'd suggest the average person who owns a gun is legitimately less safe than average anyway, whether they own a gun or not.

The stats in the US show that you are twice as likely to kill yourself with a gun than you are to be killed by someone else with a gun

That you might "feel safer" is irrelevant, I would suggest that what you claim to be fact is a false logic.

if indeed you felt safer with a gun, I would suggest that it then follows you feel less safe without a gun, and by your logic, that people wouldn't have guns if they didn't feel safer with them, then those who have no gun by choice, feel safer for they have no need of a gun. So the people that feel the safest, have no gun. That's a fact.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

So why do you need the gun?

Like I already said, for the worst case scenario.

Also to prevent anyone else with a gun from trying to control me. Guns = freedom, which is why Yanks love them.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I think you're comparing apples with oranges though. The question is whether you'd feel safer in those areas in Australia without a gun, or in similar areas in America with a gun. I know what I'd choose and I'm confident the stats would clearly show which was safer. Besides, needing a gun around to feel safer is itself an indication that you aren't safe.

I'm not comparing any fruit with any other. I'm explaining why people who have guns want them.

If I was in their shoes I'd want one too.

 

[Bazal]

Well this argument has become too stupid for me. Night folks.

Might watch the latest Bourne movie, Natural Bourne Killers

 

[I'm a loser baby...]

I'm not comparing any fruit with any other. I'm explaining why people who have guns want them.

If I was in their shoes I'd want one too.

I understand why they want them and I reckon it's largely because the laws in their country allow just about any merkin to get one. In this country under our laws we aren't in their shoes and hopefully never will be. Are the incidents of violent crime, or whatever owning a gun could protect against, lower here or there?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

The stats in the US show that you are twice as likely to kill yourself with a gun than you are to be killed by someone else with a gun

And again you think it's all about killing, ignoring the far more common situation of using the gun to convince some scumbag to find another victim. This is what guns are used for. They are a very effective deterrent.

Suicide is also a red herring in this debate, though if I wanted to top myself I'd rather do it with a gun than by any other means. And of course when you're suicidal feeling safe isn't really a concern. You would hope you're very unsafe. So unsafe in fact that your death is imminent.

What a f**king stupid argument.

That you might "feel safer" is irrelevant, I would suggest that what you claim to be fact is a false logic.

Even if I didn't have hundreds of hours of weapons training, I would still consider myself the exception to the rule that the average person is more likely to blah blah blah. Nobody considers themselves to be the average person.

if indeed you felt safer with a gun, I would suggest that it then follows you feel less safe without a gun, and by your logic, that people wouldn't have guns if they didn't feel safer with them, then those who have no gun by choice, feel safer for they have no need of a gun. So the people that feel the safest, have no gun. That's a fact.

I assume you're clumsily trying to put together a reductio ad absurdum argument here, but to be honest, there is nothing illogical about it, and neither does it refute my argument.

If you feel safer without a gun then you shouldn't have one.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Well this argument has become too stupid for me. Night folks.

You need to accept that what you consider to be settled science is nothing more than a popular narrative intended to make those of us without access to guns feel safer.

And it works. I only feel marginally less safe without a gun such that it's not worth the effort for me to jump through all the hoops required to get one.

But if I lived in the kind of place where people want to own guns then I would absolutely want one too. They have good reason to want to own guns. To criticise them from our urban middle class perspective is f**king ignorant.

Sweet dreams

 

[Bandwagon]

I don't feel safer with or without a gun, I do feel safer living in a country where guns are rather heavily restricted and their use and ownership controlled.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I don't feel safer with or without a gun, I do feel safer living in a country where guns are rather heavily restricted and their use and ownership controlled.

It certainly helps us feel safer. But in the off chance you're victimised by some merkin who does have the rare firearm (almost certainly illegal) you won't be caring much for the statistics. The fact he probably acquired such weapon by nefarious means will shed some light on his character while ironically adding further uncertainty to your on-the-spot risk assessment.

 

[I'm a loser baby...]

I don't feel safer with or without a gun, I do feel safer living in a country where guns are rather heavily restricted and their use and ownership controlled.

I agree. Because where does it stop? If I've got a gun but it's safely locked up, and the criminals know that, what good is that really? And if people start carrying their guns then pretty soon the criminals catch on to that too, and take even less chances. So maybe I get shot in the back. And all the while there's this constant fear of getting shot. Give me here any day.

 

[I'm a loser baby...]

It certainly helps us feel safer. But in the off chance you're victimised by some merkin who does have the rare firearm (almost certainly illegal) you won't be caring much for the statistics. The fact he probably acquired such weapon by nefarious means will shed some light on his character while ironically adding further uncertainty to your on-the-spot risk assessment.

Yeah but you'd still be wrong. Just unlucky. But I understand why people want guns. I want one.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Yeah but you'd still be wrong. Just unlucky. But I understand why people want guns. I want one.

Everyone's a chance of being unlucky. Best to be prepared when it happens.

 

[Gronk]

But if I lived in the kind of place where people want to own guns then I would absolutely want one too. They have good reason to want to own guns. To criticise them from our urban middle class perspective is f**king ignorant.

Sweet dreams

The NRA opposed Obama's efforts to ban the sale of semi/automatic weapons. Simply based on the 2nd Amendment.

What reason does anyone justify the need to own a military grade killing machine.

This AM the toll currently stands at 58 dead and 500 injured.

 

[Gary Gutful]

So all Pou is doing is explaining why people may feel like they want a gun. That's great - I think we all get that.

What others are talking about is gun policy. Its the job of decision makers to consider what drives everto want a gun in the context of everything else and make decisions that are in the best interest of the majority of people.

Yes, in all decisions there will be some losers (like some poor merkin who gets shot because he didn't have a gun). You hope that on balance though our policies and laws are developed so that there are far more winners than there are losers.

 

[strider]

Everyone's a chance of being unlucky. Best to be prepared when it happens.

The less available guns, the less chance of being unlucky

 

[Bandwagon]

It certainly helps us feel safer. But in the off chance you're victimised by some merkin who does have the rare firearm (almost certainly illegal) you won't be caring much for the statistics. The fact he probably acquired such weapon by nefarious means will shed some light on his character while ironically adding further uncertainty to your on-the-spot risk assessment.

The beauty of this though is the dramatic decrease in the probability that this would happen due the difficulty and expense of obtaining an illegal fire arm.

For what it's worth, I've had a gun pointed at me twice in a threatening manner in my lifetime, so i have some understanding of what such a situation entails, On both occasions no-one was seriously injured, and the perpetrators were arrested at a later date without shots having been fired.

Whilst the above may seem contradictory, Both of these occasions occurred prior to Howard's gun reforms.

 

[Gronk]

Whitehouse spokesman said this morning that now is not the time to be talking about gun control....

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/353484-white-house-now-not-time-to-debate-gun-control

 

[Gronk]

Trump even rolled back Obama's Executive Order which made it harder to buy a gun for those with mental illness.


===============
Feb 2017

President Donald Trump quietly signed a bill into law Tuesday rolling back an Obama-era regulation that made it harder for people with mental illnesses to purchase a gun.

The rule, which was finalized in December, added people receiving Social Security checks for mental illnesses and people deemed unfit to handle their own financial affairs to the national background check database.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www...ng-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-n727221