NRL and its clubs are expected to palm-off expansion until 2014 or 2015

[Raiderdave]

Again, do you actually have anything to back this magical 10% number up?

Your Katoomba/ANZ/Weastmead analogy is so wide of the mark its lol worthy

You are just making shit up and clearly have no idea about the Brisbane area or the Broncos fan base.

do you have anything to refute it ?

have you actually been asking people at Suncorp where they live you wombat ?
no ... I didn't think so

I know that 2 million plus people live in Brisbane
I know that there is only 1 team there
I know that a team from Ipswich will not work
I know a 2nd team called the Brisbane ----'s will !!

K
that is all ;-)

 

[rednblack]

it was thought that if they'd called the Raiders .. Queanbeyan , then Canberrans would not support them
It was argued .... why would they ?

a bloody good question
it would have marginalised the team & limited its potential to attract the maximum numb of fans

You'd better remind all those people in rutherford that they're not supposed to support Newcastle them. Or the Emu Plains residents that they shouldn't follow Penrith. Make sure you warn the good people of Curl Curl about supporting Manly, and the people of Granville about Parramatta.

You are a dead-set goose.

How many Broncos fans live in the CBD suburb of Brisbane, or how many of you lot live in Canberra? You really don't understand logic, do you? When I lived in Sydney, if someone asked me where I lived, do you really think I said "Sydney"? That much was f#*king obvious - we all lived in that city!! If someone asked, it was because they wanted to know WHICH PART OF SYDNEY I IDENTIFIED AS MY OWN.

You can't possibly not understand that - no one is that stupid, not even you. You're arguing now so that you don't have to admit your stupidity.

Stop being an idiot for a while, it reflects poorly on the other raiders fans that I know.

that is all

 

[Raiderdave]

You'd better remind all those people in rutherford that they're not supposed to support Newcastle them. Or the Emu Plains residents that they shouldn't follow Penrith. Make sure you warn the good people of Curl Curl about supporting Manly, and the people of Granville about Parramatta.

You are a dead-set goose.

How many Broncos fans live in the CBD suburb of Brisbane, or how many of you lot live in Canberra? You really don't understand logic, do you? When I lived in Sydney, if someone asked me where I lived, do you really think I said "Sydney"? That much was f#*king obvious - we all lived in that city!! If someone asked, it was because they wanted to know WHICH PART OF SYDNEY I IDENTIFIED AS MY OWN.

You can't possibly not understand that - no one is that stupid, not even you. You're arguing now so that you don't have to admit your stupidity.

Stop being an idiot for a while, it reflects poorly on the other raiders fans that I know.

that is all

yes ...... lets start up a team in camden , have them play at ANZ
( same distance between ipswich n the brisbane CBD )
& assume everyone between there & homebush , will support them :sarcasm:
I mean no one know's why

but hey .... they just will :lol::lol::lol:

how about starting up a team in Dubbo
we'll get them to play at Penrith

a little further to travel .... but you've got all those fans in between that will flock to games

you're an idiot

that is all ;-)

 

[Rockin Ronny]

we probably need to decrease it by 3 more

not add to it einstein :lol::lol::lol:

No, idiot, only if some sydney clubs are genine basketcases should they be removed.
But if there is a club that is a one region town, financially powerful (Singo and many corporates) with a huge fan base (including returning NS Bears fans), then it's a no brainer - and only corruption prevents it - plus the stupidity of those in management of the game, some of whom make even a gimp like you look smart.

you don;t erode your powerbase.
Rugby league, after 100+ years, is played at a decent level only in 2 australian states, northern England and with a small persence in NZ and Melbourne.

Serving chips at Maccas has fried that magnificent business brain of yours.

 

[Raiderdave]

No, idiot, only if some sydney clubs are genine basketcases should they be removed.
But if there is a club that is a one region town, financially powerful (Singo and many corporates) with a huge fan base (including returning NS Bears fans), then it's a no brainer - and only corruption prevents it - plus the stupidity of those in management of the game, some of whom make even a gimp like you look smart.

you don;t erode your powerbase.
Rugby league, after 100+ years, is played at a decent level only in 2 australian states, northern England and with a small persence in NZ and Melbourne.

Serving chips at Maccas has fried that magnificent business brain of yours.

nawwwww...... :-({|=

need a tissue :lol::lol:

 

[Joker's Wild]

do you have anything to refute it ?

have you actually been asking people at Suncorp where they live you wombat ?
no ... I didn't think so

I know that 2 million plus people live in Brisbane
I know that there is only 1 team there
I know that a team from Ipswich will not work
I know a 2nd team called the Brisbane ----'s will !!

K
that is all ;-)

lol It's not up to me to refute anything mate. The onus is on you to supply relevant evidence to back up your claims, which you cant seem to, therefore you are full of crap.

Have you actually been asking people at games if they are not from Ipswich?
No...I didn't think so

You make a lot of claims, which are nothing more than ill informed opinions, and paint them up as facts and expect everyone to swallow them whole.

I live here in Brissy. I know people from Ipswich. I regularly go to Broncos games
3 things that you cant even claim

Tell your story walking champ

 

[rednblack]

yes ...... lets start up a team in camden , have them play at ANZ
( same distance between ipswich n the brisbane CBD )
& assume everyone between there & homebush , will support them :sarcasm:
I mean no one know's why

but hey .... they just will

how about starting up a team in Dubbo
we'll get them to play at Penrith

a little further to travel .... but you've got all those fans in between that will flock to games

you're an idiot

that is all ;-)

An idiot because I DON'T make up "facts"? Or because I use common sense with my arguments, not idle conjecture?

You really are a tool buddy.

That is all ;-)

 

[PB]

Ok so on topic..

I see in the C-Coast thread where Gallop is quoted as saying expansion is on the table for 2015.

But i don't see how people can talk expansion when clubs are crying poor?
Yes a new TV deal will bring in more money, but we already know the players are going to be crying out for the majority of that.
Expansion obviously brings with it more money needed for more first grade players and more travel costs just to start with.
With more teams the "elite player" becomes an even more important commodity and hence demands more money, so we will still have the fringe players crying poor and wanting more...
We clearly don't have enough good club administrators (hence they are all crying poor) yet we will need more of them to - or need to pay more to attract better adminstrators.
No one can guarentee the product will be better and given the previous history of the standard when we had to facilitate more teams (and taking into acount there is now fewer first grade quality players around than there was even then), if the product suffers, the sponsorship dollar will be stretched even further.

Relocate teams/kill teams off and start new ones, either way and then use you new found wealth to build grassroots programs and infrastructure. Then consider expanding..

 

[Raiderdave]

lol It's not up to me to refute anything mate. The onus is on you to supply relevant evidence to back up your claims, which you cant seem to, therefore you are full of crap.

Have you actually been asking people at games if they are not from Ipswich?
No...I didn't think so

You make a lot of claims, which are nothing more than ill informed opinions, and paint them up as facts and expect everyone to swallow them whole.

I live here in Brissy. I know people from Ipswich. I regularly go to Broncos games
3 things that you cant even claim

Tell your story walking champ

know em all do you :sarcasm:

:lol::lol:

what a tosser .......:lol::lol:

 

[Joker's Wild]

You're trolling is nearly as poor as the value of your "facts"

 

[Raiderdave]

You're trolling is nearly as poor as the value of your "facts"

facts

like the one you just used & the huge relavance it holds ?

" I know people from Ipswich " .... ahhhhh:?

Okkkkkaaayyyy:sarcasm:

:crazy::crazy::crazy:

 

[rednblack]

know em all do you :sarcasm:

:lol::lol:

what a tosser .......:lol::lol:

When did he claim he knew them all? Moron.

You couldn't POSSIBLY know the breakdown of broncos match day attendees or their demographics. I know I don't know them. What I do know though, is that you've just pulled your info from thin air - made it up. If I'm wrong, and you base this on something other than speculation, why not tell us where your data comes from? Enlighten us, so that we can be as informed as you obviously are.

You're just underlining all of the reasons that people here laugh at you.

Go jump off a bridge and do everyone here a favour.

 

[Joker's Wild]

I think we've all fed him enough rednblack

Let the troll die

 

[Raiderdave]

When did he claim he knew them all? Moron.

You couldn't POSSIBLY know the breakdown of broncos match day attendees or their demographics. I know I don't know them. What I do know though, is that you've just pulled your info from thin air - made it up. If I'm wrong, and you base this on something other than speculation, why not tell us where your data comes from? Enlighten us, so that we can be as informed as you obviously are.

You're just underlining all of the reasons that people here laugh at you.

Go jump off a bridge and do everyone here a favour.

who said he did you peanut
I just asked IF he did .... so he knows a few people from Ipswich

so F'ing what ?:?:roll:

& yes ... how the hell could anyone ... including your wombat mate .. know the demographics of an attendance at a Broncos Game

despite his claims to the contrary
he doesn't know anymore about it then anyone else

but the fact that Brisbane has more then 2 million people
& Ipswich about 100K
my guess work of there only being a small % of people at Broncos games ... actually from ipswich
as ipswich only makes up a small % of SE Qld's population

would be a pretty safe bet
wouldn't you think

that is all ;-)

 

[adamkungl]

Ok so on topic..

I see in the C-Coast thread where Gallop is quoted as saying expansion is on the table for 2015.

But i don't see how people can talk expansion when clubs are crying poor?
Yes a new TV deal will bring in more money, but we already know the players are going to be crying out for the majority of that.
Expansion obviously brings with it more money needed for more first grade players and more travel costs just to start with.
With more teams the "elite player" becomes an even more important commodity and hence demands more money, so we will still have the fringe players crying poor and wanting more...
We clearly don't have enough good club administrators (hence they are all crying poor) yet we will need more of them to - or need to pay more to attract better adminstrators.
No one can guarentee the product will be better and given the previous history of the standard when we had to facilitate more teams (and taking into acount there is now fewer first grade quality players around than there was even then), if the product suffers, the sponsorship dollar will be stretched even further.

Relocate teams/kill teams off and start new ones, either way and then use you new found wealth to build grassroots programs and infrastructure. Then consider expanding..

If the NRL do their jobs and negotiate a decent TV deal they should be able to increase funding in all areas of the game and have money to increase the club grant even for 18 clubs. The existence of new clubs in new areas with an extra game means more reach and opportunities for advertising, meaning the game gets more money.

Done correctly, expansion pays for itself. Done the GWS AFL way, it is a financial black hole. We have at least 7 regions crying out for a team, all of them confident they have the bid document to prove not only their financial viability but their existence increasing the competition's value.

As for player drain - there may be a small temporary decrease in quality to fill 2 new teams. Again, good management will negate and even improve this. More money in the NRL means we turn the tide on ESL and RU converts. New teams, especially in Perth, means more kids playing the game. The Bears could lead to a spike in player numbers on the CC and a resurgence of RL in North Sydney. PNG is a market waiting to be tapped, and opportunities for more growth exist in Fiji and other islands after the success of blokes like Uate, and an upcoming WC.

Expansion must happen for the game to get the $$$ it needs to grow!

 

[Goddo]

Ok so on topic..

I see in the C-Coast thread where Gallop is quoted as saying expansion is on the table for 2015.

But i don't see how people can talk expansion when clubs are crying poor?
Yes a new TV deal will bring in more money, but we already know the players are going to be crying out for the majority of that.
Expansion obviously brings with it more money needed for more first grade players and more travel costs just to start with.
With more teams the "elite player" becomes an even more important commodity and hence demands more money, so we will still have the fringe players crying poor and wanting more...
We clearly don't have enough good club administrators (hence they are all crying poor) yet we will need more of them to - or need to pay more to attract better adminstrators.
No one can guarentee the product will be better and given the previous history of the standard when we had to facilitate more teams (and taking into acount there is now fewer first grade quality players around than there was even then), if the product suffers, the sponsorship dollar will be stretched even further.

Relocate teams/kill teams off and start new ones, either way and then use you new found wealth to build grassroots programs and infrastructure. Then consider expanding..

You have hit upon a key issue, someone raised a few pages back. The two most important criteria for expansion would have to be:

1. New club generates enough revenue for the NRL as a whole that it value adds to the competition
2. The financial model of proposed club is sound - so little/no extra funding required.

Everything else - community engagement, members, targeted players, name, branding - is ancillary.

Some bids will struggle to value add to the comp because of where they are located, despite excellent financial models. Others have huge potential to genenrate game wide revenue, but have a way to go with financial models.


Right now, I'd say not a single bid excells on both points, but of all the bids Perth comes closest.

 

[Red&BlackBear]

You have hit upon a key issue, someone raised a few pages back. The two most important criteria for expansion would have to be:

1. New club generates enough revenue for the NRL as a whole that it value adds to the competition
2. The financial model of proposed club is sound - so little/no extra funding required.

Everything else - community engagement, members, targeted players, name, branding - is ancillary.
.

That's not completely right, Gallop has stressed about the importance of community engagement in nearly every single interview he has had in regards to expansion since 2008. Because without the community being behind the team, then where are you going to draw your viewers from? Who will invest in the team to make their financial model sound? Who will turn up to games in general?

You take the community element out of the bids and you might not even be bidding in the first place. It's the fans of the respected teams who will hold those teams together, through thick and thin. Without those fans, everything else is as worthless as the majority of opinions on here. No team can survive without community engagement, no team can make revenue without community engagement and no team will get TV time without community engagement. You honestly think that the TV stations will show a game if there's hardly anyone at the ground? It makes the over all spectacle, game and decision to broadcast that team/bringing that team in inept.

Sure the TV elements and financial models are crucial but without support then what's the point?

 

[PB]

That's not completely right, Gallop has stressed about the importance of community engagement in nearly every single interview he has had in regards to expansion since 2008. Because without the community being behind the team, then where are you going to draw your viewers from? Who will invest in the team to make their financial model sound? Who will turn up to games in general?

You take the community element out of the bids and you might not even be bidding in the first place. ......
Sure the TV elements and financial models are crucial but without support then what's the point?

Thats true, but without the financial model, the community don't have a team to support for more than one season.

It has been shown with the AFL that an expansion team costs much more than an established team because they have to spend more on public relations and promotions to build the awareness, they have to create brand recognition, they have to prepare the infrastrucutre, and all the start up costs, relocate players etc.

In my opinion the NRL (IC whatever) should use the majority of any new money on grassroots programs and infrastructure (community level facilities) - that may be in Perth/WA and the Central Coast, but the idea of "buld it and they will come", ie stick a team in and the fans will just turn up, is a pretty outdated one.

I think we kind of agree R&B but i just think that the establishment should take control of the growth of the games future (grass roots fundemenatals) before trying to expand (potentially) beyond its means.

 

[rednblack]

Thats true, but without the financial model, the community don't have a team to support for more than one season.

It has been shown with the AFL that an expansion team costs much more than an established team because they have to spend more on public relations and promotions to build the awareness, they have to create brand recognition, they have to prepare the infrastrucutre, and all the start up costs, relocate players etc.

In my opinion the NRL (IC whatever) should use the majority of any new money on grassroots programs and infrastructure (community level facilities) - that may be in Perth/WA and the Central Coast, but the idea of "buld it and they will come", ie stick a team in and the fans will just turn up, is a pretty outdated one.

I think we kind of agree R&B but i just think that the establishment should take control of the growth of the games future (grass roots fundemenatals) before trying to expand (potentially) beyond its means.

You're right PB, and there are few bids that CAN currently show the infrastructure (financial and otherwise) already.

As Goddo pointed out, and I'm sure Perth Red will agree too, the reds bid possibly shows the greatest potential overall (when infrastructure AND location are considered). However, and I'll admit this view may be considered biased, the CC bid is superior in every way apart from location (for all the reasons discussed here at length already). If looked at without the blinkered views of the anti-NSW fraternity, the CC is by far and away to most stable, most supported (by community and corporate alike), and the most likely to be financially viable. Whilst I understand people's concerns regarding the physical location of the Central Coast, the evidence supports the notion that a club there would succeed (we're talking OFF the field here).

I agree whole heartedly that the "build it and they will come" approach is a poor one. Hence my (and others') reluctance to support the current Bombers bid. I simply can't see that it will work, as you've pointed out. And I agree that the grassroots need to be addressed as a priority, but not necessarily separately or independently from the issue of where to go next. I think, to a degree, these issues need to be addressed hand in hand with each other. One hand washes the other and all that jazz...

Once control of the game is in independent hands, they should administer in the best interests of the code as a whole, and at all levels. This means building our foundations, AS WELL as building the elite competition into the strongest it can be. Not one nor the other, I feel that they should be capable of, and compelled to, do both.

 

[AuDragon]

I can understand the fervent supporters of the CC bid to be biased, but I find some to be just over-confident.

No matter how you twist it, the CC bid geographical is a giant point against the bid's success.

I have no doubt about the commitment of the CC Bears community to bring this bid to success, but realistically this bid lacks what the other bids have: Potential!

It dilutes the greater Sydney area ranks of public, corporate support and players, making it even thinner than it already is, has limitted attraction to the broadcasters (when compared to Perth, SEQ or even NZ bid), and nibbles into the markets of Manly and Newcastle, all of which makes it a less desirable model for expansion of the game IMO.

It really would be a shame for the CC bid to fall over again, but I believe that is what is bound to happen. I think the proud Bears will die unless they choose to relocate to a better geographical area.

Just my 2c