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NRL and its clubs are expected to palm-off expansion until 2014 or 2015

Of the three favourites which two teams make the most sense?

  • Brisbane II

    Votes: 137 67.8%
  • Central Coast

    Votes: 55 27.2%
  • Western Australia

    Votes: 182 90.1%

  • Total voters
    202

Scarves

Juniors
Messages
612
Putting a team on the Central Coast isn't expansion, it's consolidation, and that is the same deal for any 2nd Brisbane based outfit. Expansion is Perth and Wellington.

At the moment, I'd have to agree with the Gallop (very rare), in that with all the issues associated with the ICom at the forefront of importance, it really isn't an appropriate time to promise or include new clubs into the current mix.

Following that, The IC will need to consider rationalisation, expansion and or consolidation. The only way we'll see double consolidation - where both a second Qld club and a Gosford team are added together as part of an 18 team Rugby League set up, is if one of the current 16 clubs either folds or relocates. I can't see that taking place considering the potential windfall current clubs are banking on for the next broadcast deal.
 
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Messages
4,765
The next generation of North Shore kids won't have a bitter resentment towards Manly because they never lost their club and it is more likely that they will embrace a club on the Northern beaches than a club on the Central Coast.

Are you kidding me? Hating Manly is something that transcends generations and regardless of which club one supports. It's not just a Bears thing, it's a rugby league thing period. There a few certainties in rugby league and they are..

1) The Broncos will always have a strangehold in S.E.QLD, regardless of how much teams you introduce in the area.

2) Come ORIGIN time, QLD and NSW dislike eachother.

3) Manly is universally disliked by almost every non-Manly fan.
 

Goddo

Bench
Messages
4,257
Putting a team on the Central Coast isn't expansion, it's consolidation, and that is the same deal for any 2nd Brisbane based outfit. Expansion is Perth and Wellington.

At the moment, I'd have to agree with the Gallop (very rare), in that with all the issues associated with the ICom at the forefront of importance, it really isn't an appropriate time to promise or include new clubs into the current mix.

Following that, The IC will need to consider rationalisation, expansion and or consolidation. The only way we'll see double consolidation - where both a second Qld club and a Gosford team are added together as part of an 18 team Rugby League set up, is if one of the current 16 clubs either folds or relocates. I can't see that taking place considering the potential windfall current clubs are banking on for the next broadcast deal.
Very well said.

Edit: and if we consolidate, where do we need to do so more? Greater Sydney/Gosford with its 9 current clubs, or Brisbane with 1 current club? Gallop with his "heartland" and "non-heartland" comments should be interpreted as 1 "consolidation" and 1 "expansion" club.

With the absence of a Wellington bid and the unviability of a PNG bid, that leaves Perth as the sole "expansion" bid as well as 3 (possibly 4) Queensland and 1 NSW consolidation bids.
 
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firechild

First Grade
Messages
7,890
Are you kidding me? Hating Manly is something that transcends generations and regardless of which club one supports. It's not just a Bears thing, it's a rugby league thing period. There a few certainties in rugby league and they are..

1) The Broncos will always have a strangehold in S.E.QLD, regardless of how much teams you introduce in the area.

2) Come ORIGIN time, QLD and NSW dislike eachother.

3) Manly is universally disliked by almost every non-Manly fan.

I've noticed recently that there are far more Manly fans on the lower North Shore than I have ever experienced before. Places like Chatswood, Roseville, Neutral Bay and Mosman which used to be Bear strongholds seem to be home to a large number of Manly fans. I think it was a Dragons supporter here was saying a couple of weeks before the GF that most of the Manly fans he knew were from the lower North Shore. Kids who grow up watching the game want to support a team and they are more likely to choose a team that is close to home than one that is not. For most kids on the NS, the Central Coast seems as far away as Canberra where as Brookvale/Manly is not far at all.
 

t-ba

Post Whore
Messages
57,739
Two of my cousins, raised in Chatswood, 11 and 12, with both parents having done the 'sod this, I'm middle class, if there are no Bears I'll watch the Waratards instead' thing, have raised kids who are stark raving mad Manly fans.

There's not much demographically to distinguish the Lower North Shore from the Beaches anymore. Northstried to cut the Junior clubs in the Lower North Shore loose when they originally attempted to move. The area is steadily becoming Manly.

I think they deserve a slot with Perth btw.
 

Beowulf

Juniors
Messages
720
I've noticed recently that there are far more Manly fans on the lower North Shore than I have ever experienced before. Places like Chatswood, Roseville, Neutral Bay and Mosman which used to be Bear strongholds seem to be home to a large number of Manly fans. I think it was a Dragons supporter here was saying a couple of weeks before the GF that most of the Manly fans he knew were from the lower North Shore. Kids who grow up watching the game want to support a team and they are more likely to choose a team that is close to home than one that is not. For most kids on the NS, the Central Coast seems as far away as Canberra where as Brookvale/Manly is not far at all.

As I live in the area and am involved with a junior club i nthe area I can tell you exactly whats happened. Almost all over 30 who remember the Bears wouldn't follow another team - they have become casual RL watchers at best of State of origin, finals etc, but have switched most focus to Swans and Waratahs. Bring the Bears back, this changes overnight.

This is translating to their kids - with no local NRL team representing the district, and no parents passionate about the game, there is no connection and less and less kids follow league also. Of those who do, allegiances are split on the lower north shore between mainly Souths, Roosters, Parramatta, St George, Tigers, Manly. In pretty close to that order, too, but NRL jerseys are rarely sighted these days around here. It all depends on which team is having a run of success - so last few years, more St George and Manly than would otherwise be the case. When their eras end, their support will fall.

There is a cultural divide and an access issue to Brookvale that precludes support for the Sea Eagles...they will never be the 'natural' team to follow, just one of a selection of peripheral options. Parents will be more inclined to take kids to a venue they can easily access and watch in comfort - currently none. A lot of the cultural divide is due to the Sea Eagles seige mentality "you hate us and we hate you'. So if you don't live on the peninsula, it means Manly hates you, so hardly an endearing enticement for undecided fans (or sponsors)!

David Gallop is fully aware of the lack of traction Manly have on the north shore and northern beaches - he has said as much himself with comments about the attraction of a team with a home ground that can be easily accessed via the north shore-Gosford rail link, and the attraction in reconnecting with all Bears fans lost to the game (over 40K in his words).

Brookvale is poorly located to cater for anywhere except the peninsula - surely no one can deny that, and because of this, they will always struggle financially and be unable to service there own area adequately, let alone northern Sydney and the Central Coast. I see Manly junior numbers are falling also, despite successful times. Every dollar (and more than they have) goes into the NRL squad, not grassroots or junior/other rep teams.

If you only had 1 team to fill northern Sydney and Central Coast, you'd locate it at Hornsby (or maybe Chatswood or Gosford). The last place you'd locate it is halfway up the peninsula which no one can access through sufficient capacity public transport except if you live on Pittwater Rd or access via ferry/bus from Circular Quay or express bus from the CBD.

Since we're stuck with Brookvale for one team, another team is needed to cover outside the peninula, IF IT CAN PROVE IT WILL HELP, NOT HINDER. That's the challenge for the Bears bid team. Once you understand the mass transport system requirements and networks, its pretty straightforward!
 

Rockin Ronny

Juniors
Messages
1,769
I think it's just a matter of time before Manly expands its fan base and even junior base to the North Shore. At present there are still a lot of old Bears fans that hate Manly, in time that will change. There are plenty of kids on the north shore who know little or nothing about the super league war. Anyone still in high school wouldn't even remember it, most weren't even around for it. The Bears will eventually become a historical team (with respect to first grade) like Sydney Uni or Newtown. The next generation of North Shore kids won't have a bitter resentment towards Manly because they never lost their club and it is more likely that they will embrace a club on the Northern beaches than a club on the Central Coast.

Poor deluded manly scum.

Hasler's gone, Hopoate too - Foran next then DE Evans. Manly have no money. The blood money from the Bears rort and Delmege is gone. Board infighting is pathetic.

By the time kids grow up to understand footy, Manly won't be around. they'll be Central Coast Bears fans - and they'll only go to Brookvale Oval when public toilets are locked down.
 

winnyason

Juniors
Messages
1,576
Rockin ronnie peanut, DCE set to sign extension over his 2 years to four, hasler in my opinion no big loss in the long term seems crusher is staying.
Foran well let's speculate about a um are comment from a footballer really, T rex staying, kite, the stewarts won't go any where, jamie lyon the same choc loyal manly man. Buhrer, vic munro contract extension should i go on, who do you go for really does it matter manly has made 3 gf's in 5 years 8 finals in a row.
Bit of trivia manly has won more titles in 15 years than norths did in 100 LOL.
 
Messages
4,765
Code:
As I live in the area and am involved with a junior club i nthe area I can tell you exactly whats happened. Almost all over 30 who remember the Bears wouldn't follow another team - they have become casual RL watchers at best of State of origin, finals etc, but have switched most focus to Swans and Waratahs. Bring the Bears back, this changes overnight.

This is translating to their kids - with no local NRL team representing the district, and no parents passionate about the game, there is no connection and less and less kids follow league also. Of those who do, allegiances are split on the lower north shore between mainly Souths, Roosters, Parramatta, St George, Tigers, Manly. In pretty close to that order, too, but NRL jerseys are rarely sighted these days around here. It all depends on which team is having a run of success - so last few years, more St George and Manly than would otherwise be the case. When their eras end, their support will fall.

There is a cultural divide and an access issue to Brookvale that precludes support for the Sea Eagles...they will never be the 'natural' team to follow, just one of a selection of peripheral options. Parents will be more inclined to take kids to a venue they can easily access and watch in comfort - currently none. A lot of the cultural divide is due to the Sea Eagles seige mentality "you hate us and we hate you'. So if you don't live on the peninsula, it means Manly hates you, so hardly an endearing enticement for undecided fans (or sponsors)!

David Gallop is fully aware of the lack of traction Manly have on the north shore and northern beaches - he has said as much himself with comments about the attraction of a team with a home ground that can be easily accessed via the north shore-Gosford rail link, and the attraction in reconnecting with all Bears fans lost to the game (over 40K in his words).

Brookvale is poorly located to cater for anywhere except the peninsula - surely no one can deny that, and because of this, they will always struggle financially and be unable to service there own area adequately, let alone northern Sydney and the Central Coast. I see Manly junior numbers are falling also, despite successful times. Every dollar (and more than they have) goes into the NRL squad, not grassroots or junior/other rep teams.

If you only had 1 team to fill northern Sydney and Central Coast, you'd locate it at Hornsby (or maybe Chatswood or Gosford). The last place you'd locate it is halfway up the peninsula which no one can access through sufficient capacity public transport except if you live on Pittwater Rd or access via ferry/bus from Circular Quay or express bus from the CBD.

Since we're stuck with Brookvale for one team, another team is needed to cover outside the peninula, IF IT CAN PROVE IT WILL HELP, NOT HINDER. That's the challenge for the Bears bid team. Once you
understand the mass transport system requirements and networks, its pretty straightforward!

Pretty much sums up the junior and infrastructure situations in the area. A major sticking point which is constantly bypassed by those who aren't as informed on the bid. It's an important issue and with 1.1mil people in the area, a crucial one too.
 
Messages
4,765
Bit of trivia manly has won more titles in 15 years than norths did in 100 LOL.

That's correct but without Norths, Manly wouldn't exist or has that part of history also been rewritten in the Manly history books? Both clubs generated the biggest rivalry in the codes history, without one the other is but a shadow of it's former self regardless of how many titles or money is being generated.
 
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Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
67,109
I'm happy with our chances, the longer it goes on the stronger our bid gets. This years sell out NRL game was yet another big tick in the box for us. Lots of exciting stuff going on in preperation and just need to nail a couple of big sponsors (though one is rumoured to be over the line and just waiting to sign the dotted line). NRL would be mad to ignore Perth for one spot.

Who will get the second spot is the intriguing fight. Bears tick all the boxes except, arguably, the value to TV whilst Bombers/WC tick very few boxes except the TV value one. Still feel the 2nd spot is there for a Brisbane side to steal from the Bears if they can get it together in time, if not I am sure they will go with the Bears and Perth.
 

BuffaloRules

Coach
Messages
14,392
Two of my cousins, raised in Chatswood, 11 and 12, with both parents having done the 'sod this, I'm middle class, if there are no Bears I'll watch the Waratards instead' thing, have raised kids who are stark raving mad Manly fans.

There's not much demographically to distinguish the Lower North Shore from the Beaches anymore. Northstried to cut the Junior clubs in the Lower North Shore loose when they originally attempted to move. The area is steadily becoming Manly.

I think they deserve a slot with Perth btw.

I know two former Norths diehards one living in Mosman and the other in Neutral Bay whose young kids are very keen Manly fans...

The idea that the former Bears territory of the North Shore is just a vacuum waiting for the Central Coast Bears is an absolute myth...
 

Raiderdave

First Grade
Messages
7,990
Poor deluded manly scum.

Hasler's gone, Hopoate too - Foran next then DE Evans. Manly have no money. The blood money from the Bears rort and Delmege is gone. Board infighting is pathetic.

By the time kids grow up to understand footy, Manly won't be around. they'll be Central Coast Bears fans - and they'll only go to Brookvale Oval when public toilets are locked down.

then we must do everything in our power to make sure Manly survives
the NRL needs Villans ... someone we can focus our hatred on & despise passionately
Manly do this well.. & have done this for decades
they are essential

the Bears ( Norths ) on the other hand
well

we just felt sorry for them
watching Norths fans watch their team play was similar to the feeling you get when you see a spastic on the street

you just feel bad .... its a mixed feeling of dispair ... & relief that it isn't you or anyone you know ;-)
 

Beowulf

Juniors
Messages
720
I know two former Norths diehards one living in Mosman and the other in Neutral Bay whose young kids are very keen Manly fans...

The idea that the former Bears territory of the North Shore is just a vacuum waiting for the Central Coast Bears is an absolute myth...

Yes of course there are exceptions to the rule, but a sample size of two is not representative of 750K people. Refer my comments re David Gallop's comments citing a need for a team to service the rail corridor and reconnect with northern Sydney.
 
Messages
4,765
The idea that the former Bears territory of the North Shore is just a vacuum waiting for the Central Coast Bears is an absolute myth...

A myth is it? So I guess all the work being done by the Central Coast Bears bid in the region is also a myth? As are the corporate partners coming from the region and of course the fans?

A myth is Manly or anyone else actually caring for the region, a myth is that an existng team caters for the area or the juniors in the area. With no NRL team, the Bears still get more work done in the area then any current existing team. People like Beowulf who are involved in the junior comps know this to be true, people like Col the Bear who have been advocating and participating in anything Bears related know this to be true, people like myself who has been dedicated to the bid for a substantial amount of time know this to be true. It's not a myth son, it's reality.
 
Messages
4,765
then we must do everything in our power to make sure Manly survives
the NRL needs Villans ... someone we can focus our hatred on & despise passionately
Manly do this well.. & have done this for decades
they are essential

the Bears ( Norths ) on the other hand
well

we just felt sorry for them
watching Norths fans watch their team play was similar to the feeling you get when you see a spastic on the street

you just feel bad .... its a mixed feeling of dispair ... & relief that it isn't you or anyone you know ;-)

How could you have watched Norths play when going by your posts you're clearly 10 years old? Either that or you're one of these spastics that you're going on about?
 

Raiderdave

First Grade
Messages
7,990
How could you have watched Norths play when going by your posts you're clearly 10 years old? Either that or you're one of these spastics that you're going on about?


LOL... now now

watched our boys dismantle Norths on many an occasion
particularly enjoyable keeping them out of Grand Finals in 1991 & 1994

couldn't have that pack of spastics in our Grand Final for gawds sakes ;-)
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,955
we just felt sorry for them
watching Norths fans watch their team play was similar to the feeling you get when you see a spastic on the street

you just feel bad .... its a mixed feeling of dispair ... & relief that it isn't you or anyone you know ;-)

Similar to the feeling you get reading a raiderdave post...
 

firechild

First Grade
Messages
7,890
Board infighting is pathetic.

Couldn't agree more but you'll find that other clubs (not all) are just as bad. One look at Parra, Canterbury or Penrith shows this. There has just been more focus on Manly's board because they are the premiers.

However, if Manly can win 2 premierships in 4 years with a squabbling board, imagine the success they'd have if things settled down.
 

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