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NRL faces major turmoil as clubs threaten breakaway league

Von Hipper

Juniors
Messages
178
it is absurd that NRL club chairs can serve as directors on the NSWRL board, it is a complete conflict of interest and has turned the NSWRL into a political apparatus to run agendas against the NRL. The body should have it's own interests and fight for them, not the clubs.

They should change the constitution to remove their vote and force alteration. They could do this by not having duplicates in the tiers of voting, ect.
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
15,880
Crikey - those are the exact sports we SHOULD NOT be copying. Its the dream of the NRL club bosses tho! Its a fallacy in our little market right now. They want too much too soon, if ever we can do that. The way those competitions are set up too are waaaay different to ours. Just because they do it does not mean we should instantly do that.

These are economies. You cannot just point to the NBA and go "hey, NBA - wow....its better than us by ages! ohhh". Mate, they are not comparable. They are both sports and thats about it.

I do not get why and its not just you, but people always compare and go we should do X, Y, Z.

We need Australian solutions to australian sports.

There is nothing so unique about the Australian sporting landscape that we should ignore the trends etc in the US sport market. We have arguably ignored stuff too long.
 

DiegoNT

First Grade
Messages
9,378
Crikey - those are the exact sports we SHOULD NOT be copying. Its the dream of the NRL club bosses tho! Its a fallacy in our little market right now. They want too much too soon, if ever we can do that. The way those competitions are set up too are waaaay different to ours. Just because they do it does not mean we should instantly do that.

These are economies. You cannot just point to the NBA and go "hey, NBA - wow....its better than us by ages! ohhh". Mate, they are not comparable. They are both sports and thats about it.

I do not get why and its not just you, but people always compare and go we should do X, Y, Z.

We need Australian solutions to australian sports.
Because literally every sport in the world that makes huge money from tv deals returns that money to the athletes and teams that provide the entertainment that tv compaines desperately want. Yet when the nrl clubs ask for that money they are accused of being greedy, of using tv money to prop up their businesses, of being old fashioned or some whacky sydney/nsw conspiracy
 

Von Hipper

Juniors
Messages
178
Well its not working, as its been there worst ratings season on TV in quite some time.

Are you seriously saying that the NRL doesn't have a history of making rule changes?

That's some world class trolling.

He's not trolling - he's just talking about something entirely different to what you're on about. Those two things are not related.
 

Von Hipper

Juniors
Messages
178
Because literally every sport in the world that makes huge money from tv deals returns that money to the athletes and teams that provide the entertainment that tv compaines desperately want. Yet when the nrl clubs ask for that money they are accused of being greedy, of using tv money to prop up their businesses, of being old fashioned or some whacky sydney/nsw conspiracy

I dont care what everyone else is doing. lol. hope I dont sound like your parents.

I actually think we should be doing 1 of two things that will be rather similar, given the constraints of our market (those USA teams are one-city teams, 2 in case of LA area, or New York, Chicago: but huge cities, right, their 3 bigger/ist ones, east coast far more population dense/economic hub)...ours have 8 in one town....

hrm.

1 - massive growing yearly distribution fund clubs apply for - but much like la liga it has 25% even distribution then 75% (or whatever figures you like but no more than 50/50) must be applied for and spent on things the NRL deems will generate a return of be in the best interest of the league, ect.

2 - clubs individually bargain for a certain percentage.

But both things work on the same premise that not all clubs are equal so not all clubs should be getting the same amounts. We need to be saving millions per year that we can add into the fund. The projects the clubs use these on therefore would yearly become more and more impressive.

Im not talking so much about withholding money either - it all gets returned (but would not be as much as a flat-rate), but its given out all the same, not just a free-for-all.
 

DiegoNT

First Grade
Messages
9,378
You know you're arguement is going bad when people are agreeing with Perth Red and East Coast Tiger
 

Von Hipper

Juniors
Messages
178
There is nothing so unique about the Australian sporting landscape that we should ignore the trends etc in the US sport market. We have arguably ignored stuff too long.

Oh, of course I do agree to a point just not in total. We are not america. Understand that.


I do agree that people are more alike than different the world over - we are genetically under some very small (1% difference?) across the entire globe. People are more the same than different, but it must be tailored for Australia.

IF you are talking about business then much like what the AFL has done (and its no surprise every visits there to get the inside techniques, or reads books) its like a virus or an intolerant religion that pushes things out (like getting a media department and things like that, making sure its got the one major stadium/business connections, ect) then that is different.
 

Von Hipper

Juniors
Messages
178
You know you're arguement is going bad when people are agreeing with Perth Red and East Coast Tiger

Is that passive aggressive due to me? You must be phased. And to use others arguments instead of your own...tsk tsk.

I take it you're a well meaning individual, but if you didn't bring the intellectual clout to this, dont hang me for it, get up yourself.

These issues are far too naunced for effective, fast explaining here anyway. ECT is stuck in the past and chooses obfusication and other mindless tactics - he just wants to remain conservative and is exactly the type of person T-B is talking about. Perth Red is not countering my points, and I actually agree with much of what PR says.

I honestly think some people are just differing in opinions. But if you are seeking to undermine myself you are not going about it in an effective manner. I simply think we have differing opinions and I am not going to hang you for it, but I will be standing up for the points I make.
 

Lockyer4President!

First Grade
Messages
7,975
Got a point? Do you really think any sport in the world (apart from union) wants to minimise entertainment?
Certainly feels that way when the refs/bunker go out of their way to disallow tries and the way wrestling has become a big part of the game.
The footy is so much more entertaining at lower levels you'd be forgiven for thinking they're different sports.
 

Von Hipper

Juniors
Messages
178
Those field resets are scintillating viewing.

I also like to watch Tennis players change ends and tie their shoes.

haha. There's a lot more going on. Like in cricket and the commentators talk you get an understanding of the moments. Or you're at the ground and there's no commentators, you're being drawn into the battle. Atmosphere does a lot.

Essentially, he's saying YOU'RE MISSING THE POINT - and probably on purpose too just to be difficult. You appreciate sport, we know you do...
 

Von Hipper

Juniors
Messages
178
Wow... the penny just dropped all of a sudden?

There's more than just the funding crisis here - theres the players deal has not been done, there's the liscenses, there's the way in which the clubs have negotiated this as if its their last gasp ever, there's the attempt to modernise the agreements and enshrine club-nrl interactions better, and more besides like Grant joining up players and clubs in one battle formation, the way the NRL is supposedly being mean to clubs with their finance and strategy guys, ect.

You honestly don't believe its just about funding do you?

Dude, its about block-headed clubs.

And I am not being mean - they are in the same boat and clubs are seriously underperforming, being currupt, and being difficult. No joke... Now this whole funding thing is really showing me that the clubs just don't give a sheet... they want their money and fingers in their ears.

Absolutely 100% disrespect to all the people who are in this sport. They say the clubs make the money (well, the NRL does) but guess what - its the fans who make that happen.

And the fans are P.O'ed and disparaging toward these clubs in the main - there is some support.

For mine, I want to see more issues out on the table - whats so evil about this new licence and why can't the clubs wait (they must have known they made the admin screw up and cave on the funding but its not feasible now, I'd warrant as money always needs more of itself than you plan for).... why?

They need to be getting that to the media instead of the pity plays, and actually they need to get in and get all the stuff signed and move on
 
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DiegoNT

First Grade
Messages
9,378
Is that passive aggressive due to me? You must be phased. And to use others arguments instead of your own...tsk tsk.

I take it you're a well meaning individual, but if you didn't bring the intellectual clout to this, dont hang me for it, get up yourself.

These issues are far too naunced for effective, fast explaining here anyway. ECT is stuck in the past and chooses obfusication and other mindless tactics - he just wants to remain conservative and is exactly the type of person T-B is talking about. Perth Red is not countering my points, and I actually agree with much of what PR says.

I honestly think some people are just differing in opinions. But if you are seeking to undermine myself you are not going about it in an effective manner. I simply think we have differing opinions and I am not going to hang you for it, but I will be standing up for the points I make.
You think you're intellectual, but so far have dribbled shit.
You've gone down the sydney clubs conspiracy theory road, yet it's those sydney clubs, and broncos, that draw well on tv that push the tv deals up that means there is money to splash around. If it was all about broke sydney clubs trying to drag the game down then why do clubs like broncos, Cowboys and warriors join up with them on this?

Try answer this honestly without the spin, have Grant and co actually done a good job over the last 12 months
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
15,880
Certainly feels that way when the refs/bunker go out of their way to disallow tries and the way wrestling has become a big part of the game.
The footy is so much more entertaining at lower levels you'd be forgiven for thinking they're different sports.

YES.
The coaches have gotten ahead of the rule makers (who are the coaches). And the consequence is the wrestling, conservative attitude has stifled the shit out of the beautiful random attack we use to see in the early 90s. Compared to 2007 there is on average 1 less try a game. Thats 192 tries a year. When was the last chip chase. I use to love the chip kicks.
 

Von Hipper

Juniors
Messages
178
You think you're intellectual, but so far have dribbled shit.
You've gone down the sydney clubs conspiracy theory road, yet it's those sydney clubs, and broncos, that draw well on tv that push the tv deals up that means there is money to splash around. If it was all about broke sydney clubs trying to drag the game down then why do clubs like broncos, Cowboys and warriors join up with them on this?

Try answer this honestly without the spin, have Grant and co actually done a good job over the last 12 months

what the? You're putting me on notice by assuming some kind of authority position? check yourself, bro....

Get some respect first. I think my position is abundantly clear. Im not being cross examined by you now after your behaviour anyway. But alas, it IS a discussion board...

I suggest you go back to the start and work out they are all in a league (which is one thing) but not all of them lose a fist full of money each year as much as others, some of them are currupt-as...smh....some of them breach the cap, some of them don't even know what they spend on the cap, some go around the cap....

yeh - on paper you may feel you have the right of it, but there needs to be more wheel greasing in the right areas, and you can't let organisations who admit they compete excessively with each other in a blind attempt to win and/or blow themselves up, to have sustainable fiscal management on their minds.

Are you limiting it to 12 months to prove some kind of case? gettouddahere! Don't shape the questions.

The last 12 months have been absurd with shi!tstorms from the media, the clubs, the player associations, you name it.

No. Whats really happened is the clubs have dropped their bundle when they realised no one wanted to support their pre conceived notion they should be the be-all/end-all about rugby league.

If you are paying attention, you will notice each section has armed themselves and tech-levelled up (for want of a better term). The players, the clubs, the future/juniors/data, ect, BUT nothing is being done, there is NO consensus.

Each believes they have the winning blow. "THIS will get us more funds", ect.

And people want to give parity or monetary equality across a situation like that? No, the clubs are the largest losers of money there is. In what world does expenditure come first over other basic things?

Which one? The one your parents or someone else pays for? Or you?

This is the responsible (enough, nothing is perfect) fiscal management they all craved. Now they don't like what they got.

^ That is why I suggested the system I did. It solves all the bullshit. Yours especially.
 
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T-Boon

Coach
Messages
15,880
Haha. Oh. You are a welcome edition to the League Unlimited family Von. But most of my many haters would be assuming you are me.
 

DiegoNT

First Grade
Messages
9,378
what the? You're putting me on notice by assuming some kind of authority position? check yourself, bro....

Get some respect first. I think my position is abundantly clear. Im not being cross examined by you now after your behaviour anyway. But alas, it IS a discussion board...

I suggest you go back to the start and work out they are all in a league (which is one thing) but not all of them lose a fist full of money each year as much as others, some of them are currupt-as...smh....some of them breach the cap, some of them don't even know what they spend on the cap, some go around the cap....

yeh - on paper you may feel you have the right of it, but there needs to be more wheel greasing in the right areas, and you can't let organisations who admit they compete excessively with each other in a blind attempt to win and/or blow themselves up, to have sustainable fiscal management on their minds.

Are you limiting it to 12 months to prove some kind of case? gettouddahere! Don't shape the questions.

The last 12 months have been absurd with shi!tstorms from the media, the clubs, the player associations, you name it.

No. Whats really happened is the clubs have dropped their bundle when they realised no one wanted to support their pre conceived notion they should be the be-all/end-all about rugby league.

If you are paying attention, you will notice each section has armed themselves and tech-levelled up (for want of a better term). The players, the clubs, the future/juniors/data, ect, BUT nothing is being done, there is NO consensus.

Each believes they have the winning blow. "THIS will get us more funds", ect.

And people want to give parity or monetary equality across a situation like that? No, the clubs are the largest losers of money there is. In what world does expenditure come first over other basic things?

Which one? The one your parents or someone else pays for? Or you?

This is the responsible (enough, nothing is perfect) fiscal management they all craved. Now they don't like what they got.

^ That is why I suggested the system I did. It solves all the bullshit. Yours especially.
Duck and Dodge, evade the question. So if you were the bass, how would distribute the money. Use simple and small words for an idiot like me
 

Von Hipper

Juniors
Messages
178
Duck and Dodge, evade the question. So if you were the bass, how would distribute the money. Use simple and small words for an idiot like me

Im only too happy to. I think you're smarter than you seem. I would also alter over-protective 'Independence' laws to allow people like Gorman or whoever, to at some point get on the commission, and I am interested in a club-council which at the behest of the ARLC works closely with the NRL (more official than they do at the moment) to form policy. Not in the executive, no way, that would be bad, but more like a House of Representatives sub-commitee, that can advise on matters. Its under full control of the ARLC, so they can dissolve it at any point, or even convene it, and of course the NRL would have its own functions towards it.

I would like to see closer ties. They already said they were meeting 4 times a year to get more communication happening, they should take it one step further.

I think with this funding deal most of the hard stuff will be out the way anyway.

please re read it, I didn't dodge it. I have written about this like 10 pages ago. I dont expect you to go back but its similar to what Smith suggested.

But that construct is useless without figures.

We can only do this is we know numbers. IF the players get a certain % of revenue, then the clubs should get a certain %.

is it 30% each? (500M *.25 = 25% is 7.8m cap over 16 teams + we will need 16M more for 2 teams expansion at this stage.....but also will need to increase cap perhaps to 500m *.3 is 30% = 9.3 over 16 clubs, and 18M at least for expansion at some point)

BUT how much? If the money was there I would be giving each club 10% more than the cap, easy. No problem. Then the next 20% (just say) I would be looking to specifically target areas of improvement. In fact, some clubs may never access this money (they may never need to in future) or they may be saving it up for a bigger payout (in consultation with the NRL of course).

But here is where I may differ. I have earmarked a 30% (just say) distribution fund. It grows yearly, so the less clubs use the better off they become... I would be giving some clubs more and some less year-to-year. Theres no way the broncos needs as much as St george or Wests, its 50m v 18m, just say, but being in the league they should be helped too, no doubt.

Over time I would make sure it evened out as much as possible, given the disparities to begin with. I would set up a median line and place clubs on it, and say ok, you guys are below the median so we can't have that. Its a constantly churning sea...

You may say, ok, you're below the median and look, you don't have a center of excellence, and its year 4 of the distribution fund so we have a large chunk for you. Or you're below the median and you have told us you want to improve your memberships as you see it as a driver for you, so here... ect.

In my mind, and I may be wrong, but IF a club is getting 5M now, but it saves 3M down the road (because they would always spend it on X) and gives some football improvement, I think thats a 2M saving overall even if it used 5M of the fund. It may be 500k spent saves 750k next year for some kind of operational thing, thats money the fund has saved.

Some of it is a gift, some of its a favor and some of it is credit. You can buy or loan or take credit out the fund. Its a very flexible fund.

Its the sports money.... but you should not have more than your fair share, given you are in a league. Its a central fund, after all. It should be making clubs more effective.

I want to be saving money for expansion. We need to find another 20M a year at least. Hopefully with such a system above they can maximise value for less money.

In the above there is no rainy day fund anymore, pretty much. At least its not adding to the existing fund if any is left. There will be losses the next two years as well. I dont know how large.

But to me the system above is prudent, maybe even effective.
 
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