NRL faces major turmoil as clubs threaten breakaway league

[Perth Red]

People are trying to make something complicated when it doesn't have to be.
The NRL competition, the teams and the players, are responsible for 90% of the money coming into the NRLs coffers. So it makes sense to protect what's actually making money. Yea digital, expansion, grassroots all have their needs, but the thing that makes the money possible has to be tended to first. The clubs aren't asking for anything that unreasonable. Like Perth Red said, at 130% on a $10m cap is still only taking about 42% of what's available. That's still leaves 58% of what's left for everything else. If digital is so important then that $20m per year should be coming out of the 58%.
Every current club contributes in its own way to the strength of the nrl competition, and it's money making ways. It's all finely balanced. The sydney clubs all have huge fanbases, while it may not reflect in crowds, they are hugely popular in ratings . The smaller market teams means that the game is spread to more areas. Yea newcastle are costing a bit atm, but imagine how much more it would cost if we lost the whole hunter area. Ditto for the dragons, titans and tigers.
All clubs contribute to making that tv deal in their own way, so sharing it out fairly seems the way to go. If you start doing sliding scales then you a rewarding a club for mediocrity or punishing a club for being succesful. 130% off the cap for clubs should give them huge breathing space, then it's upto them through sponsorship, mememberships etc. While you can argue that some have been badly run, it must be remembered we aren't far out of a disastrous suoer league war and gallop era.
That still leaves a huge amount of money that can be invested in new technologies, grassroots (the problem with grass roots isn't just monetary, it's ideology as well), and expansion. With expansion, it's up to whoever negotiates our next tv deal to spruik the idea of an extra game per week to cover the costs of 2 new teams.
If this rebellion is about a secret conspiracy for clubs to get power, wouldn't it makes sense to just give them the %130, and cut them off the threat immideately? Once they get the funding they want some clubs will back down, as will the rlpa, and suddenly there isn't this big block trying to take over?

Leaving aside the very dumb idea the NRL agreed to of a % of salary cap (that is just asking for trouble as clubs encourage RLPA to go for more and more knowing that their share increases accordingly). I do agree that a % of revenue would be a fair way to fund clubs. Might cause even more impediment to expansion as NRL would have to increase % overall to bring in new teams but that aside a 40-45% club grants based on overall revenue would seem reasonable. That way everyone has a motivation to see the NRL grow and earn more money.

 

[Stormwarrior82]

Just comparing the 2015 annual reports shows

NRL revenue. $334mill Grant allocation to 16 clubs $162mill = 48% of revenue
AFL revenue. $494mill Grant allocation to 18 clubs. $245mill = 49.5% of revenue

Pretty equal.

There's quite a few questions re revenue and funding that the media should be asking imo.
1. Why does Telstra get naming rights to NRL for effectively free whilst Toyota pay $10mill a year for afl ones?
2. Why did the NRL lose over $6mill on events last year?
3. Why did we see a turn around from $21.8mill surplus to $12.5mill loss in one year despite a non tv revenue increase of $10.2mill?

Just note that the figures you have quoted are for both leagues are different when you look into the concise financial report. Revenue for Nrl was $374 mil with a $18 mil loss so therefore spent $392 mil and Afl $558 mil with a $3.5 mil profit.

The Grant allocation can be written up any which way but history has proven clubs are as bad if not worse than the Nrl. For that reason greater care needs to be used for the distribution of funds from the nrl over the salary cap. The clubs should generally know what is best for them but i feel the nrl should be consulted as well. The Nrl should take the salary caps of the clubs and then the extra grant clubs receive are distributed via a annual club meeting with the nrl on how they plan to use the funds.

Also my answer to your questions.

1. telstra got naming rights but lost digital control of the game. which I'm sure would of been worth a lot more so also could of been a short term pain/long term gain for the nrl on the telstra deal.
2. Not sure how we lost revenue on events. due to no international game at the end of the year?
3. Now i remember reading somewhere that they spent a lot on the melbourne origin game. i don't think they really can justify that sort of jump in spending though. Plus propping up failed clubs wouldn't of helped. Football expense went up $18 mil as well which a lot. all other areas were minimal increases including Nrl Admin.

 

[Stormwarrior82]

The biggest questions I have are about the NRL digital plan.

So we now have control of our own digit and Grant said in February that we want to be "the leading edge in providing digital content". Does this take an massive cash investment? If it does does it provide a big return?
Would it mean we have more control over media on rugby league PR? Like, is it a way we can control the brand? We all know how negative News Ltd is about about Rugby League.
It is sort of a new idea for the NRL to invest in assets. So I wish they would tell us more.

Now to start up a department to look after nrl digital would obviously cost a bit in its initial start up. Now of all the people to remove from the commission Grant shouldn't be it. If the clubs are trying to make a point use another commissioner. If the digital dept fails then punt Grant.

Now Grant was the boss of Data3 which is a ASX listed IT company as well as chairman of the Australian Information Industry Association. Then decides to become a chairman with the NRL (stupid). Now him more than anyone should be capable of moving our game into the digital arena.

I feel the investment in Digital is critical. thats were the future is and we would potentially be years in front of the other big codes. if done right the digital revenue streams could be endless

clubs would obviously benefit with membership bonuses with app integration
Our digital dept could broadcast an extra game (expansion) to test waters for the takeover of the tv deal in 2023.
we could become a world leading in digital sport broadcasting and broadcast other sports like netball, basketball, soccer. The potential is endless i just hope we can take advantage of the digital landscape.

 

[Stormwarrior82]

Anyone have any idea what this reputed $20mill a year to build "digital" actually means? What are the outcomes and how will this recover the investment?

I get that one day the NRL may sell its own coverage online in the future but does it really need $100mill and 6years to get ready for that?

i thought the figure was more close to $50 mil to start with setup and everything. now not sure what it means but it seems its just a more fancy word than media department like the Afl. Im also not sure on the outcomes and investment strategy but probably best to keep it close to there chest at the moment id say. But Grant above anyone else in the game should have the know how to at least get the ball rolling in the right direction.

 

[Stormwarrior82]

We cant tell you because Grant never releases any real details about how the NRL Admin spends all the money..

I assume that they are going to be employing a lot of "journalists" to write a lot of feel good stories to put on nrl.com

Grant aka Ceo/Commission as well as the Nrl clubs and other sporting codes are all guilty of releasing very few details about admin spending.

Now I'm sure there will be more feel good stories once this gets up and running. And its about time the general public finds out the real truth and not the media spin that the nrl community gets all the time. Rugby League community has amazing people and they should be pushed into the spotlight as much as possible. Beaus recent act is a testament to that. he isn't the only one that does good things.

 

[Perth Red]

Just note that the figures you have quoted are for both leagues are different when you look into the concise financial report. Revenue for Nrl was $374 mil with a $18 mil loss so therefore spent $392 mil and Afl $558 mil with a $3.5 mil profit.

The Grant allocation can be written up any which way but history has proven clubs are as bad if not worse than the Nrl. For that reason greater care needs to be used for the distribution of funds from the nrl over the salary cap. The clubs should generally know what is best for them but i feel the nrl should be consulted as well. The Nrl should take the salary caps of the clubs and then the extra grant clubs receive are distributed via a annual club meeting with the nrl on how they plan to use the funds.

Also my answer to your questions.

1. telstra got naming rights but lost digital control of the game. which I'm sure would of been worth a lot more so also could of been a short term pain/long term gain for the nrl on the telstra deal.
2. Not sure how we lost revenue on events. due to no international game at the end of the year?
3. Now i remember reading somewhere that they spent a lot on the melbourne origin game. i don't think they really can justify that sort of jump in spending though. Plus propping up failed clubs wouldn't of helped. Football expense went up $18 mil as well which a lot. all other areas were minimal increases including Nrl Admin.

Thanks Storm, nice to read a decent post for a change! Didnt realise Grants background, you are correct re his knowledge in this space and value to the NRL, probably why they havent offered his head yet.

Regards your comment re Telstra losing digital control, what do you mean by this? According to the Telstra release they still maintain digital screening rights until 2023?

https://exchange.telstra.com.au/201...s-nrl-sponsorship-and-digital-rights-to-2022/

 

[Perth Red]

Just found this which would suggest it is just the NRL and club websites and social media that NRL is taking over from Telstra?

http://www.afr.com/business/sport/n...-new-rights-deal-with-telstra-20151203-glf8r9

 

[Stormwarrior82]

Now looking at the Concise Nrl annual report they Spent $392 million ($374 mil with a $18 mil loss) in 2015.

now if everything rises with inflation topping $400 mil for 2016 is probable.

2015
Expenses (mil)
$100 Event, game and sponsorship
$42 Football
$12 Community and welfare
$28 Administration
$148 Clubs
$28 States
$28 Development
$4 other
Total $392 mil

now if all those amounts were increased due to inflation x 2 and what funds are promised we would get
2017
Expenses (mil)
$110 Event, game and sponsorship
$45 Football
$15 Community and Welfare
$30 Administration
$200 Clubs
$30 Development
$30 States
$5 Other
$100 Grassroots
$20-50 Digital dept
Total $585-$615 mil

now thats well above the $500 mil we have so its not that hard to use the money up. yes they could cut back on different areas of course but still it all ads up.

 

[Stormwarrior82]

Thanks Storm, nice to read a decent post for a change! Didnt realise Grants background, you are correct re his knowledge in this space and value to the NRL, probably why they havent offered his head yet.

Regards your comment re Telstra losing digital control, what do you mean by this? According to the Telstra release they still maintain digital screening rights until 2023?

https://exchange.telstra.com.au/201...s-nrl-sponsorship-and-digital-rights-to-2022/

well I take a number of things out of this.

1. Telstra still have MOBILE digital rights till 2023. thats all fine and probably a good thing. but what Telstra don't have is Digital broadcast rights away from mobile. Fox and nine currently do that but my take is that they do that for themselves not the nrl. i.e. TV. Nothing stopping Nrl to develop something that can be streamed straight to your tv. Apple tv or something similar.
2. increase there digital online presence like you said (Facebook, twitter, instagram)
3. Have greater influence in the digital media and less from part owners News.
4. By 2023 have a greater understanding of the Mobile platform and be in a position to take it over from them. or at least make them pay for it $$.

I'm sure there might be other benefits.

who knows maybe the introduction of 2 new franchise teams (extra game) in 2021-22 (or earlier) could be the introduction of the only platform Nrl tv that shows 9 games a week. Make Nine can pay extras for the 4th game FTA game and simulcast everything else on Nrl tv and 8 games on fox. You can only dream.....

 

[AlwaysGreen]

It would be a step forward for rugby league to go back to captain coaches in my opinion. You could run a football department on 1mill and the game would look better.

So T Boob's game would look like this:
Captain coaches
Unathletic specialist kickers
2 points for field goals
The t boon rule: 50/30 kicks or whatever nonsense it was
The game played in quarters

Spending less on football operations at the same time as making it more attractive.

This one is truly a special type of nanger.

 

[Von Hipper]

People are trying to make something complicated when it doesn't have to be.
The NRL competition, the teams and the players, are responsible for 90% of the money coming into the NRLs coffers. So it makes sense to protect what's actually making money. Yea digital, expansion, grassroots all have their needs, but the thing that makes the money possible has to be tended to first. The clubs aren't asking for anything that unreasonable. Like Perth Red said, at 130% on a $10m cap is still only taking about 42% of what's available. That's still leaves 58% of what's left for everything else. If digital is so important then that $20m per year should be coming out of the 58%.
Every current club contributes in its own way to the strength of the nrl competition, and it's money making ways. It's all finely balanced. The sydney clubs all have huge fanbases, while it may not reflect in crowds, they are hugely popular in ratings . The smaller market teams means that the game is spread to more areas. Yea newcastle are costing a bit atm, but imagine how much more it would cost if we lost the whole hunter area. Ditto for the dragons, titans and tigers.
All clubs contribute to making that tv deal in their own way, so sharing it out fairly seems the way to go. If you start doing sliding scales then you a rewarding a club for mediocrity or punishing a club for being succesful. 130% off the cap for clubs should give them huge breathing space, then it's upto them through sponsorship, mememberships etc. While you can argue that some have been badly run, it must be remembered we aren't far out of a disastrous suoer league war and gallop era.
That still leaves a huge amount of money that can be invested in new technologies, grassroots (the problem with grass roots isn't just monetary, it's ideology as well), and expansion. With expansion, it's up to whoever negotiates our next tv deal to spruik the idea of an extra game per week to cover the costs of 2 new teams.
If this rebellion is about a secret conspiracy for clubs to get power, wouldn't it makes sense to just give them the %130, and cut them off the threat immideately? Once they get the funding they want some clubs will back down, as will the rlpa, and suddenly there isn't this big block trying to take over?

ok fair enough. But you do not reward them by letting them do whatever they wish with that extra money.

Understand the nuances, lad! The nuances!!!!

 

[Von Hipper]

"Superior intellect"?! ROFLMAO. Superior ego more likely. Also putting your ideas in bold does not make them "superior". You are not worth the time of day conversing with.

Well aren't you a smug individual. Guess it fits your heroic world view of casting people down when you don't understand sarcasm, grasp concepts,or pffft, see if I give a damn, champ, rofl.

I see your image, you do not impress me.

 

[Von Hipper]

Just note that the figures you have quoted are for both leagues are different when you look into the concise financial report. Revenue for Nrl was $374 mil with a $18 mil loss so therefore spent $392 mil and Afl $558 mil with a $3.5 mil profit.

The Grant allocation can be written up any which way but history has proven clubs are as bad if not worse than the Nrl. For that reason greater care needs to be used for the distribution of funds from the nrl over the salary cap. The clubs should generally know what is best for them but i feel the nrl should be consulted as well. The Nrl should take the salary caps of the clubs and then the extra grant clubs receive are distributed via a annual club meeting with the nrl on how they plan to use the funds.

Also my answer to your questions.

1. telstra got naming rights but lost digital control of the game. which I'm sure would of been worth a lot more so also could of been a short term pain/long term gain for the nrl on the telstra deal.
2. Not sure how we lost revenue on events. due to no international game at the end of the year?
3. Now i remember reading somewhere that they spent a lot on the melbourne origin game. i don't think they really can justify that sort of jump in spending though. Plus propping up failed clubs wouldn't of helped. Football expense went up $18 mil as well which a lot. all other areas were minimal increases including Nrl Admin.

Great post, well done.

Not about the quoted poster this bit but I will point something out in a moment. In the meantime this is what I have been saying.

Creepy Apollo guy here it is, in BOLD, son, IN BOLD!!!! "The Grant allocation can be written up any which way but history has proven clubs are as bad if not worse than the Nrl. For that reason greater care needs to be used for the distribution of funds from the nrl over the salary cap. The clubs should generally know what is best for them but i feel the nrl should be consulted as well. The Nrl should take the salary caps of the clubs and then the extra grant clubs receive are distributed via a annual club meeting with the nrl on how they plan to use the funds"

^^^^^
I bin, sayin`, yer know??

^^^^

Some people are currently questioning their self concept, self worth, ect. I see you people getting all anstsy, I dont want to insult you, but when people lash out over nothing, you know you have affected them, challenged them, asked more of them than they can currently give. You show them up, and they resent you, even though you are trying to help them.

Finding themselves lacking, they lash out. Then they grow...

Thats ok. I understand the sense I speak is not sense to all because we have many filters. But know this: I cheer each one of you spastics, and I do so with absolute belief you will one day stand beside my reasoning and say "Oh. My. Gaaawd!.... Von Hipper - HE PICKED the nrl funding strategy out of what? 10 different models?"

And - you - will know!! I am your looorrrd!!!--- WHEN I LAY MY VENGEN...!!!

Ok, taking this a bit too far, I think the system is good. Done in consultation. Last thing we want are too many excellence centers, lets face it, each year only one club can be truly excellent.

/s

 

[DiegoNT]

ok fair enough. But you do not reward them by letting them do whatever they wish with that extra money.

Understand the nuances, lad! The nuances!!!!

Why not? They've earnt it.
Say if it's a 10m cap and they get 13m.
That's 10m to pay the players what they deserve. That leaves 3m.
3m to cover coaching, front office, marketing, junior programs etc.
If the clubs want to spend more on top of that then it has to make the money themselves from sponsorship, memberships, merchandise, stadium deals/ticketing.
They can no longer use the excuse that they are overspending to keep up. That 130% should be enough to cover the bare minimums

 

[BuffaloRules]

Now looking at the Concise Nrl annual report they Spent $392 million ($374 mil with a $18 mil loss) in 2015.

now if everything rises with inflation topping $400 mil for 2016 is probable.

2015
Expenses (mil)
$100 Event, game and sponsorship
$42 Football
$12 Community and welfare
$28 Administration
$148 Clubs
$28 States
$28 Development
$4 other
Total $392 mil

now if all those amounts were increased due to inflation x 2 and what funds are promised we would get
2017
Expenses (mil)
$110 Event, game and sponsorship
$45 Football
$15 Community and Welfare
$30 Administration
$200 Clubs
$30 Development
$30 States
$5 Other
$100 Grassroots
$20-50 Digital dept
Total $585-$615 mil

now thats well above the $500 mil we have so its not that hard to use the money up. yes they could cut back on different areas of course but still it all ads up.

Assume your projected expenses are for 2018 when the new TV deal starts..

Wont the States be included in development budget?

What is associated with "Football" that doesn't fit into one of the other categories?

 

[Von Hipper]

Now to start up a department to look after nrl digital would obviously cost a bit in its initial start up. Now of all the people to remove from the commission Grant shouldn't be it. If the clubs are trying to make a point use another commissioner. If the digital dept fails then punt Grant.

Now Grant was the boss of Data3 which is a ASX listed IT company as well as chairman of the Australian Information Industry Association. Then decides to become a chairman with the NRL (stupid). Now him more than anyone should be capable of moving our game into the digital arena.

I feel the investment in Digital is critical. thats were the future is and we would potentially be years in front of the other big codes. if done right the digital revenue streams could be endless

clubs would obviously benefit with membership bonuses with app integration
Our digital dept could broadcast an extra game (expansion) to test waters for the takeover of the tv deal in 2023.
we could become a world leading in digital sport broadcasting and broadcast other sports like netball, basketball, soccer. The potential is endless i just hope we can take advantage of the digital landscape.

This fellow gets 2 quotes because his posts are excellent. Thankyou! This is why I am saying do the funding like I am saying it. And not just for clubs but for cutbacks elsewhere, people may think I want to give clubs less - no, I want to give the maximum we can BUT making this digital strategy a reality, and expansion some day before 2030.

 

[Von Hipper]

Why not? They've earnt it.
Say if it's a 10m cap and they get 13m.
That's 10m to pay the players what they deserve. That leaves 3m.
3m to cover coaching, front office, marketing, junior programs etc.
If the clubs want to spend more on top of that then it has to make the money themselves from sponsorship, memberships, merchandise, stadium deals/ticketing.
They can no longer use the excuse that they are overspending to keep up. That 130% should be enough to cover the bare minimums

100% understood, but please see my last post before this. I truly would want the clubs getting maximum, and would review the entire admin and distribution, so we can do the digital strategy and get expansion during the next decade

 

[Von Hipper]

So T Boob's game would look like this:
Captain coaches
Unathletic specialist kickers
2 points for field goals
The t boon rule: 50/30 kicks or whatever nonsense it was
The game played in quarters

Spending less on football operations at the same time as making it more attractive.

This one is truly a special type of nanger.

Phil Rothfeild? Yeh, mate, f u. Going to say that on twitter next time I come across you too. lolz

 

[Von Hipper]

Now to start up a department to look after nrl digital would obviously cost a bit in its initial start up. Now of all the people to remove from the commission Grant shouldn't be it. If the clubs are trying to make a point use another commissioner. If the digital dept fails then punt Grant.

Now Grant was the boss of Data3 which is a ASX listed IT company as well as chairman of the Australian Information Industry Association. Then decides to become a chairman with the NRL (stupid). Now him more than anyone should be capable of moving our game into the digital arena.

I feel the investment in Digital is critical. thats were the future is and we would potentially be years in front of the other big codes. if done right the digital revenue streams could be endless

clubs would obviously benefit with membership bonuses with app integration
Our digital dept could broadcast an extra game (expansion) to test waters for the takeover of the tv deal in 2023.
we could become a world leading in digital sport broadcasting and broadcast other sports like netball, basketball, soccer. The potential is endless i just hope we can take advantage of the digital landscape.

I actually have an app concept that could be a great innovative partnership with a specific type of company and it could absolutely revolutionise the way we interact with the game, teams, clubs, ect, with full screen video. The revenue from this could be enormous.

I'm just a dolt, though, according to some... But I am sure concepts like this are already being formulated.

Look at the new google now (henceforth from today/yesterday called the "google app") and the way it shows scores, ect, links into youtube for NFL/NBA highlights, ect. Look at snapchat, and examine the webrtc tech behind that. They just need a platform within a platform, or it could BE the platform for other sports, there is no telling (like you say) how far this could go.

Kids don't care unless its video now, thats what really grabs them

They will want to talk into their phones with artificial intelligence, and they will expect to use full-screen video apps.


Look at Google's Allo and Duo - (allo is rubbery but the example is its a new messaging app, these things happen all the time) and DUO - its a full screen video app. The idea is to make any NRL app seamless, and with video becoming a thing now more on mobile, the phones/devices will make it all more seamless. DUO allows you to have full screen/real time voice/video/data communication on your lock screen, its a great concept. So its seamless. And you swipe in, and its still there, and of course its all attached to notifications and all that. Any other digital app will be able to access these things. It opens up a large window all these sub systems.

There is location-aware wifi/data coming. It will open up a whole raft of revenue generation concepts we have not even seen yet. This goes beyond just phone/device location. It deeply integrates into the whole stack.

And Android and even Apple (but android is going gangbusters) will be in cars. Imagine being connected to "nrl" anywhere you go, even on the train. Now, Android's Qualcomm chipmaker just bought out a dutch semi conductor company for 50 billion approx, and they also make the mobile data (and wifi?) for Apple's mobile CPUs - apple do not integrate the mobile data/wifi onto their boards, Android does; the Android ones are a bit ahead right now, by a lot in that regard, and cpu power is not the be/all, end/all, the latest Iphone/iOS has shown that, so expect iphone 8 to be something closer to the latest androids in that - basically it means everyone will be raring to go for mobile-auto. A lot more research is going into this kind of thing all over.

With increases in data, it could stream/gather video and all kinds of things from clubs and news sources, games even (they don't have to be nrl ones, people will tune in for trials, states, schools, ect), and you could sign up to the service and with future wifi/data stream several streams into a premises. So that 4x MIMO and network aggregation actually ends up being 4x the ads! Then product placement, then increased values for clubs, ect.

Who knows where/what/how far clubs could be able to take it, as in how much it would penetrate. But if we note fox subs increased only** in the internet streaming side of things, basically (it would appear) there is only one way the market is going. And the various sections of the industry will be seeking such advantages.

The clubs and ARLC/NRL, and anyone else on this must realise NRL is lucky - its one of the two most popular sports, and it has a massive opportunity here. To be a service, to be a platform, because it has the content that gathers many people in one place at once, consistently, year in year out. There's ads, subs, product placement, spin off shows, club tv, news, notifications, on-demand, it would grow, they'd need a data center and website/infrastructure, ect, anchors, journo's, reporters, players making themselves available, ect, camera setups for training and various things.

And they will be able to package it all up for traditional media too. They will own it.

Thats where the money will be going into as well. The initial 50 will be going fast. They won't have to rely on news to be nice, ect.

The question is will they see the benefit over time, to take some pain now, but reap extra in the future.

There will come a time when selling data to fox for their streaming rights will make no sense.

It costs a LOT to set up pay tv. It will only cost a "bit", haha, to setup an equal digital streaming service - everyone has access to webRTC, everyone can gather advertisers, everyone can use the NBN and internet and future wifi technology (like in South Korea), imagine 100mb/s or even 50mb/s. My phone is currently capable of 20 MB/s (no, its not an iphone). Optus are meant to be interested in mobile sports broadcasting.

Why do it for another company when you can do it for yourself? The clubs would be investing and building in themselves.

Its a no-brainer.

 

[DiegoNT]

I actually have an app concept that could be a great innovative partnership with a specific type of company and it could absolutely revolutionise the way we interact with the game, with full screen video.

I'm just a dolt, though, according to some...

Well why don't you get working for a company that could develop the app instead of stunning us simple bogans on this forum with your superior intellect.