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NRL: Lets talk about relocating teams, says QRL boss.

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titoelcolombiano

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Honestly the potential for areas outside of Sydney is much more interesting to me than the potential to diversify the product in Sydney, though I acknowledge that better supported lower tiers would also create better opportunities in Sydney (and the other big cities) as well.

Just imagine if it could be made feasible for towns like say Dubbo or Goulburn to support a local semi-pro team playing in a conference of a lower tier national comp, where all their games are either broadcast on tv or streamed so their whole season can be followed with ease and their sponsorship space is actually worth something. In theory if the NRL played it's cards right you could relatively quickly have a bunch small towns across NSW and QLD where suddenly its financially feasible to support a pro/semi-pro team where that was never possible before, now imagine that those clubs could convince every or even just most local RL fans to pick them up even just as their second team, suddenly you'd have a bunch of clubs across NSW and QLD with around 7-15k crowds depending on the area running around in the lower tiers and the start of a huge local club culture going into the future.

It could totally revolutionise the sport and the way that the country as a whole looks at pro-sports, but it'll never ever happen though.

I like the idea - you are a visionary. Do you have any interest in Greenberg's job?
 

titoelcolombiano

First Grade
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6,645
I've got another question for you!

If as you say the only way forward for the NRL that will be successful is with "established clubs with widespread supporter bases and notoriety" and all else will fail, then how are you possibly going to expand the competition with "additional top flight clubs in areas outside of Sydney metropolitan"?

Cause obviously when you expand to new areas with the new top flight clubs they are going to be new clubs, and thus won't be "established clubs with widespread supporter bases and notoriety"... So using your own logic won't your new top flight clubs slowly wither and die because they aren't "established clubs with widespread supporter bases and notoriety"?!

Got him yes, piss off you're out!
 

titoelcolombiano

First Grade
Messages
6,645
The 'new' clubs you speak of grow as a benefit of existing clubs presence! You cannot expect a new club to grow with the established rivalries and longtime clubs being disbanded/exited. It just doesn't pass the pub test champ. People follow teams in the top flight and the longevity associated with existing clubs is more valuable and credible than you think . I have answered your question/s! You just don't like the answers. Your deflection comments points to a person that is clearly insincere for this code and with an aim to destabilise an existing club culture that has Australian wide significance and notoriety.

The Broncos - Cowboys rivalry is as fierce as any inter-Sydney rivalry. It draws bigger crowds in Brisbane and Townsville and captures a huge TV audience.

Broncos est 1988
Cowboys est 1995

The Storm - Warriors rivalry is the most attended match of the year for Melbourne Storm.

Storm est 1998
Warriros est 1995

New clubs can very quickly become traditional clubs and they can also form some of the biggest and most attractive rivalries in the game. New clubs also give a fresh, renewed vibe to the competition which then renews interest in traditional clubs. My post is not anti-Sydney clubs, not at all, they are very important. My post is more to point out that there actually needs to be a balance of traditional clubs and growth. New, big city clubs taking up the game and forming rivalries between themselves and attracting meda attention and sponsorship in new cities. This is why Norths are not the way forward.
 

Stallion

First Grade
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7,467
The Broncos - Cowboys rivalry is as fierce as any inter-Sydney rivalry. It draws bigger crowds in Brisbane and Townsville and captures a huge TV audience.

Broncos est 1988
Cowboys est 1995

The Storm - Warriors rivalry is the most attended match of the year for Melbourne Storm.

Storm est 1998
Warriros est 1995

New clubs can very quickly become traditional clubs and they can also form some of the biggest and most attractive rivalries in the game. New clubs also give a fresh, renewed vibe to the competition which then renews interest in traditional clubs. My post is not anti-Sydney clubs, not at all, they are very important. My post is more to point out that there actually needs to be a balance of traditional clubs and growth. New, big city clubs taking up the game and forming rivalries between themselves and attracting meda attention and sponsorship in new cities. This is why Norths are not the way forward.

Norths as the Central Coast Bears will have many benefits for the code. Some being: a new area with a regular top flight game, regaining lost Bears fans, gaining Central Coast fans, giving Manly a genuine local rivalry with valid connection to the past, getting the CBD of northern Sydney back on side with rugby league. And many more. But this stuff falls on deaf and dumb ears for some on this site.
 
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titoelcolombiano

First Grade
Messages
6,645
Norths as the Central Coast Bears will have many benefits for the code. Some being: a new area with a regular top flight game, regaining lost Bears fans, gaining Central Coast fans, giving Manly a genuine local rivalry with valid connection to the past, getting the CBD of northern Sydney back on side with rugby league. And many more. But this stuff falls on deaf and dumb ears for some on this site.

Are these the same bears fans that won't watch the NSW cup team play? Why would they travel to the central coast? Or WSS? Or Cronulla? Or Penrith?

Many of the benefits that you mention could be gained by relegating Manly to NSW Cup whilst freeing up space in the NRL for Perth that would start at a similar level to Manly in terms of crowd average but with a much better stadium, a much higher ceiling for growth and would give us a national footprint, a new TV slot and opens us up to sponsors that want a national reach. Norths would open us up to..... the Central Coast. No offense to our friends on the Central Coast, but most already follow another NRL team and the NRL play multiple games up there a year anyway. Plus they have access to multiple NRL games every week just an hour and a quarter down the road or an hour and a half up the road. A luxury many RL fans in Australia don't have.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
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69,800
On your first point, does anything @Stallion posts address any question directed to him?

Secondly, I agree 100% - there is no reason with a dedicated RL channel and also 9 willing to show NSW / QLD cup matches that the second teir can't be attractive for TV viewership, and moderate crowds. NSW/QLD Cup is high quality RL and with increased TV deals could easily be professional comps in the future (albeit with lower salaries). Also, as NRL clubs increasingly move to WSS, Allianz and ANZ, the NSW clubs can play out of the traditional suburban grounds and use the nostalga to their advantage. It is the perfect stage for this. Imagine a traditional Sunday afternoon at North Sydney Oval, Bears v Manly (just an example) 3 - 5k in attendance, craft bear, food trucks, kids entertainment, traditional Sunday afternoon atmosphere at the footy. It would be quite attractive to league fans, especially families.

To say that the second teir can't be more attractive with a bit of work is lazy and false. Look at the interest generated in the second teir in England over the last few seasons with firstly Bradford going down, then the emergence of Toulouse and Toronto.

We used to get 1500 to watch the Reds in the bundy cup. A strong two conference professional second tier could be massive for the game, potentially even more so than any growth in the nrl.

As it becomes increasingly expensive to operate an nrl club, in the region of $25-30mill this year min, the clubs who can’t afford it any longer could drop into a $10million a year cost second tier that still had tv coverage, played at local grounds and offered something different to the nrl experience. Problem we have at the moment is half the Sydney clubs feel like going to a nsw Cup game on game day as they can’t afford to be what they need to offer.
 

Timmah

LeagueUnlimited News Editor
Staff member
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100,987
#bringbackglebe
I'd say bring back University but they're actually coming back this year in Sydney Shield. Glebe are already playing in Massey!
Norths as the Central Coast Bears will have many benefits for the code. Some being: a new area with a regular top flight game, regaining lost Bears fans, gaining Central Coast fans, giving Manly a genuine local rivalry with valid connection to the past, getting the CBD of northern Sydney back on side with rugby league. And many more. But this stuff falls on deaf and dumb ears for some on this site.
New area? 65 matches have been played at the venue (plus countless other pre-season games) and it housed 2/3rds of an NRL team for several years last decade. There are still anywhere from 2 to 4 matches played there a season.

You're definitely overestimating the number of fans that might be regained through bringing back the Bears - I'm not saying it would be none, but it'd be nowhere near the number needed to sustain a club.

Just because people don't agree with your repetitive, cyclical opinion, doesn't mean they're dumb or deaf.
 

Stallion

First Grade
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7,467
Are these the same bears fans that won't watch the NSW cup team play? Why would they travel to the central coast? Or WSS? Or Cronulla? Or Penrith?

Many of the benefits that you mention could be gained by relegating Manly to NSW Cup whilst freeing up space in the NRL for Perth that would start at a similar level to Manly in terms of crowd average but with a much better stadium, a much higher ceiling for growth and would give us a national footprint, a new TV slot and opens us up to sponsors that want a national reach. Norths would open us up to..... the Central Coast. No offense to our friends on the Central Coast, but most already follow another NRL team and the NRL play multiple games up there a year anyway. Plus they have access to multiple NRL games every week just an hour and a quarter down the road or an hour and a half up the road. A luxury many RL fans in Australia don't have.

Seriously !? Can you get in your thick scull that the top flight is very important when a fan commits to a club . For instance if your team is not in the top flight, meaning the NRL, it doesn't pass the pub test. For a start the 2nd grade fan is ridiculed as 2nd rate! Simple as that. Cannot believe what I'm witnessing in trip from some of you on this topic. But that's your go. Keep wasting our time!
 
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Stallion

First Grade
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7,467
I'd say bring back University but they're actually coming back this year in Sydney Shield. Glebe are already playing in Massey!

New area? 65 matches have been played at the venue (plus countless other pre-season games) and it housed 2/3rds of an NRL team for several years last decade. There are still anywhere from 2 to 4 matches played there a season.

You're definitely overestimating the number of fans that might be regained through bringing back the Bears - I'm not saying it would be none, but it'd be nowhere near the number needed to sustain a club.

Just because people don't agree with your repetitive, cyclical opinion, doesn't mean they're dumb or deaf.

Don't think I've overestimated the Bears fans at all. We differ. Wondering at what cost? Rugby league in northern Sydney? Or lose the fans as is occuring! It's so sad and dissappointing.
 

titoelcolombiano

First Grade
Messages
6,645
Seriously @ Can you get in your thickitchen scull that the top flight is very important when a fan commits to a club . For instance if your team is not in the top flight, meaning the NRL, it doesn't pass the pub test. For a start the 2nd grade fan is ridinured as 2nd rate! Simple ad that. Cannot believe what I'm witnessing in trip from some of you on this topic. But that's your go. Keep wasting our time!

  • Second teir RL can be attractive if marketed the right way. Broadcast on Fox League and Nine, suburban grounds and family atmosphere and scheduling to cash in on nostalgia. Look at the interest in the Championship in England lately with Toronto, Toulouse, Bradford (in recent seasons). PNG Hunters are also popular in the second teir. Norths and Manly would be no different.
  • If fans don't want their team in NSW Cup, it is simple under my proposal. Attend games and buy memberships in large numbers and your team will be in the NRL. If a team is not profitable with the new grants then they simply either don't have the fans to be at NRL level or they are just poorly run. Either way, they don't deserve to hold the game back from expanding. If all Sydney clubs happen to be well run and well supported (financially, not just anecdotally) then they do deserve a spot in the NRL
PS - I'm not sure what a thickkitchen skull is. I'm sure it is some sort of failed insult. Not sure why you resort to this. I'm just debating an issue with you.
 

titoelcolombiano

First Grade
Messages
6,645
Don't think I've overestimated the Bears fans at all. We differ. Wondering at what cost? Rugby league in northern Sydney? Or lose the fans as is occuring! It's so sad and dissappointing.

The bears on the Central Coast does nothing for the game or nothing for North Sydney
 

titoelcolombiano

First Grade
Messages
6,645
We used to get 1500 to watch the Reds in the bundy cup. A strong two conference professional second tier could be massive for the game, potentially even more so than any growth in the nrl.

As it becomes increasingly expensive to operate an nrl club, in the region of $25-30mill this year min, the clubs who can’t afford it any longer could drop into a $10million a year cost second tier that still had tv coverage, played at local grounds and offered something different to the nrl experience. Problem we have at the moment is half the Sydney clubs feel like going to a nsw Cup game on game day as they can’t afford to be what they need to offer.

Spot on!

With work and the right mix of traditional clubs, the second teir can be an attractive proposition for clubs that can't keep up with NRL level RL in terms of finances or stadia. The NRL can be the big show played out of NQ Stadium, Suncorp, Robina, Allianz, WSS, ANZ (for events), AAMI, NIB etc and the NSW Cup can offer league fans something different with North Sydney Oval, Brookevale, Leichardt, Belmore etc scheduled in family friendly time slots. Both leagues will have TV coverage and both will offer something different to league fans. You are right - the NRL clubs won't be then torn trying to be both.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
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7,960
Tyranny of distance issues completely ignored in your fanciful vision!

Nope I haven't ignored the tyranny of distance at all.

To keep travel cost down you'd have 4-6+ conferences so (most) teams wouldn't have to be jetting all over the country all the time (and probably the whole South Pacific).

So with the exception of some teams in expansion markets (like e.g. the Hunters or a potential Perth team where it's inevitable and pretty much totally unavoidable) most of a teams season (baring the odd cross conference match or finals) would be played roughly within driving distance of their region.

BTW I'd really like it if you could covey to me what my "vision" is, that way we can see what you think my opinion is and I can compare it to my actual opinion so you aren't arguing against a straw man.

And I did not state 'all else will fail'. I have always supported new additional clubs outside of Sydney however not at the cost of tearing up/exiting any established top flight clubs.Thinking outside the square is ok however at the peril of destabilizing an existing supporter culture that is stronger than most codes in Australia! ? No. Respect for established clubs within a proven competition is sound practice . Usurping this and expecting the general public to just come on board is not so business savvy or good for a code that has an existing advantage.

I don't want to "tear up" any existing clubs, so yeah you're not even addressing a position that I hold...

The 'new' clubs you speak of grow as a benefit of existing clubs presence!

Using that logic then wouldn't the existing popular clubs like the Bears and Jets in the lower tiers have the same effect on the lower tiers?

You cannot expect a new club to grow with the established rivalries and longtime clubs being disbanded/exited. It just doesn't pass the pub test champ.

What possible effect did the rivalries and histories of the established clubs such as e.g. the Rabbits and Roosters have on e.g. the Broncos development?

The Broncos weren't an established club, they had no pre-existing rivalries with the NSWRL clubs, they had to start from scratch and build their support from the ground up.
Attributing their growth (or any of the other 'expansion clubs') to being in the same competition as other older established club frankly is BS that totally negates all the work of the people at their club, and attributes it to people that had nothing to do with it.

Also if it was the case that the real draw card was the pre-existing club and not the at the time new expansion club from Brisbane (or Canberra, or Newcastle, etc) then wouldn't that interest have lead to an increase in interest, and subsequently the fan base, of those older more established clubs and not lead into growth of the new expansion club.

People follow teams in the top flight and the longevity associated with existing clubs is more valuable and credible than you think .
I have answered your question/s! You just don't like the answers.

You really haven't you've talked around them with tangents, but you haven't actually directly addressed them...

Your deflection comments points to a person that is clearly insincere for this code and with an aim to destabilise an existing club culture that has Australian wide significance and notoriety.

LOL, I think you might have a bad case of projection going on.
 

Timmah

LeagueUnlimited News Editor
Staff member
Messages
100,987
Don't think I've overestimated the Bears fans at all. We differ. Wondering at what cost? Rugby league in northern Sydney? Or lose the fans as is occuring! It's so sad and dissappointing.
It's really not.

If rugby league as an elite sport was struggling and in decline you might have a point.

It's not, and you're harping on about returning to a by-gone era some 20 years in the past.
 

Stallion

First Grade
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7,467
  • Second teir RL can be attractive if marketed the right way. Broadcast on Fox League and Nine, suburban grounds and family atmosphere and scheduling to cash in on nostalgia. Look at the interest in the Championship in England lately with Toronto, Toulouse, Bradford (in recent seasons). PNG Hunters are also popular in the second teir. Norths and Manly would be no different.
  • If fans don't want their team in NSW Cup, it is simple under my proposal. Attend games and buy memberships in large numbers and your team will be in the NRL. If a team is not profitable with the new grants then they simply either don't have the fans to be at NRL level or they are just poorly run. Either way, they don't deserve to hold the game back from expanding. If all Sydney clubs happen to be well run and well supported (financially, not just anecdotally) then they do deserve a spot in the NRL
PS - I'm not sure what a thickkitchen skull is. I'm sure it is some sort of failed insult. Not sure why you resort to this. I'm just debating an issue with you.

Apologies for the poor texting. SHOULD HAVE BEEN "thick scull" And the population is far greater in the places you have mentioned . Not to mention a massive tyranny of distance in Australia. Go figure?
 
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Stallion

First Grade
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7,467
The bears on the Central Coast does nothing for the game or nothing for North Sydney

How ignorant. If their was a place for a relocation that makes sense it is North Sydney Bears on the Central Coast. Their is a train line that directly transports fans to the stadium from North Sydney. Their is also a need for more top flight rugby league in the Central Coast. Gaining back something that has been.lost and increasing the codes exposure on the Central Coast is a smart and prudent move. Far be it from me to encroach on the capabilities and logic I'm witnessing for some on this site. You are dumb if you can't see the merits! ?
 
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Stallion

First Grade
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7,467
It's really not.

If rugby league as an elite sport was struggling and in decline you might have a point.

It's not, and you're harping on about returning to a by-gone era some 20 years in the past.

The code is in decline in northern Sydney!
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,800
The code is in decline in northern Sydney!

Can you explain why the game is growing in Perth with no nrl team yet you claim it is declining in north Sydney despite it being a rl city with 9 nrl clubs within spitting distance? Are the ns bears/nswrl really doing such a bad job in sustaining grass roots in the region?
 

Stallion

First Grade
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7,467
What’s rowing got to do with anything? It’s no wonder our education system is failing kids lol.

Lol. Fast typing and pre-emptive text doesn't help. My apologies again for the typos. Where's your apology for most of your content?
 
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