NRL strategic plan 2018-2022 as it relates to expansion

[RoosTah]

Png & North Q rugby league heartlands.
Passion, players and a huge hunger for league.

How well did the force go? The glory?
Just putting a team in Perth without the right groundwork in place doesn’t make sense.

They need a solid feeder club in the state leagues, with juniors coming through.
Having a Cairns/Png side, the potential to develop young talent is enormous. It’s an un tapped gold mine for league. You won’t find that in Perth. At best you can create a Storm2. Which don’t get me wrong is excellent.

Start from the ground up in Perth then in 10 years think about the top flight.

Disagree. Get them a side now and let the kids there know there’s something to aspire to if they go through the existing pathways. The storm have built solid foundations from the top down and it can be done again

 

[Marlins]

Disagree. Get them a side now and let the kids there know there’s something to aspire to if they go through the existing pathways. The storm have built solid foundations from the top down and it can be done again

And how many players have come from Victoria/Melbourne?
Can the Nrl support another team that requires 100% Of their players to come from other regions?

 

[RoosTah]

And how many players have come from Victoria/Melbourne?
Can the Nrl support another team that requires 100% Of their players to come from other regions?

A better question is what value is there plonking a team further North Queensland and assuming people in Darwin will identify with it if your entire rationale for setting it up in the first place is that people in Cairns don’t identify with Nth Qld because they’re based a couple hours south

 

[Marlins]

A better question is what value is there plonking a team further North Queensland and assuming people in Darwin will identify with it if your entire rationale for setting it up in the first place is that people in Cairns don’t identify with Nth Qld because they’re based a couple hours south

When did I say that Cairns doesent identify with NQ. What I’m saying is there is more then enough fans in that huge region to support two successful Nrl teams. Cairns alone could surivive in the Nrl and generate so much hope and talent in far NQ. You make a combined side with Png and who knows what could happen.

 

[RoosTah]

When did I say that Cairns doesent identify with NQ. What I’m saying is there is more then enough fans in that huge region to support two successful Nrl teams. Cairns alone could surivive in the Nrl and generate so much hope and talent in far NQ. You make a combined side with Png and who knows what could happen.

As I wrote earlier though, PNG is too underdeveloped and the population of places like Cairns is vastly smaller than some suburbs of Sydney. So what value does the side offer the NRL in terms of increased national exposure? Why would it not be simpler to just get the cowboys to take a few games up there every year

 

[johnny plath]

NRL WA Pathways Review
On August 3rd & 4th , NRL WA Chairman Bob Cronin , NRL WA General Manager John Sackson and NRL WA Operations Manager Tony Crowe attended two days of meetings in Sydney with NRL’s Head of Football Brian Canavan ,Affiliated States Manager Martin Meredith along with input from a number of other key NRL Executives.

The aim of the WA Focus meetings was to create more strategic vision for the ongoing development of the local game.

The discussions were very positive and at this stage NRL WA, NSW RL and the NRL are committed to building a strategic business plan aimed at achieving the below goals

NRL WA 2020 Pathways Vision
· 2018 – Maintain Cash Converters West Coast Pirates involvement in Current NSW RL SG Ball Under 18’s Competition

· 2019 – NRL WA to introduce High Performance Pathway role to support all development programs

· 2019 – Proposed entry into NSW RL Under 20’s Competition

· 2020 – 2022 – Proposed entry into NSW Intrust Super Premiership.

**Please note that NRL WA will be aiming to align Female programs similar the above objectives

https://nrlwa.com.au/pirates-we-are-wa-vision/

out of curiosity, is there a particular logistical reason why Perth are aligned with NSW as opposed to QRL competitions. Storm have their affiliates in QLD, and previously Manly and Canberra did until NSWRL stepped in. Just wondering if there is a particular reason to go this way.

 

[Springs09]

Perth is without a doubt priority 1 for the next TV deal. PNG has great support for Rugby League, but frankly they're still another 20-30 years of economic development away from being ready to host an NRL team. The country is one of the most sparsely populated, linguistically complex, minimally urbanised, educated and secure in the region. The NRL isn't going there in a hurry... being in the Qld cup is fine for now.

Frankly from a market access and development standpoint the priority listing has to be
1. Perth,
2. NZ2
3. Brisbane2
4. Adelaide

North Qld doesn't need another team, but the game desperately needs to be in Perth, and also desperately needs to be bigger in NZ - in fact long term we ought to be aiming for the kiwis to be supporting 3 teams like Qld as it makes the international game stronger.

Adelaide shouldn't be anywhere near the conversation until they actually put in something with a bit of support behind it. Why Adelaide? Just for the dot on the map? We never hear anything out of Adelaide, certainly not like we do out of Perth or any of the other possible expansion areas.

 

[RoosTah]

Adelaide shouldn't be anywhere near the conversation until they actually put in something with a bit of support behind it. Why Adelaide? Just for the dot on the map? We never hear anything out of Adelaide, certainly not like we do out of Perth or any of the other possible expansion areas.

They’re at the bottom of the list for a reason.

Adelaide won’t be ready for a team for at least 10 years, but it is a critical market and we do need to develop it.

 

[Perth Red]

If the NRL has allocated all their revenue for the next few years.What are they doing with the estimated $40m profit for this year,Beattie announced?

Lol, he said there’d be a surplus, he said in that in response to the criticsism of the last two years of the nrl being in the red, suggesting that it’s ok to be in the red at the end of a tv deal as there are surpluses at the beginning.
What he failed to mention was those surpluses were supposed to create a future fund, not be used to cover losses!

 

[Perth Red]

Png & North Q rugby league heartlands.
Passion, players and a huge hunger for league.

How well did the force go? The glory?
Just putting a team in Perth without the right groundwork in place doesn’t make sense.

They need a solid feeder club in the state leagues, with juniors coming through.
Having a Cairns/Png side, the potential to develop young talent is enormous. It’s an un tapped gold mine for league. You won’t find that in Perth. At best you can create a Storm2. Which don’t get me wrong is excellent.

Start from the ground up in Perth then in 10 years think about the top flight.

FMD we’ve been laying the groundwork since 2008! Re the clubs mentioned, how are the eagles, dockers, wildcats going? About as relevant!

WA is the games third strongest state, all without a top tier club for kids to aspire to. To suggest a combined third world county and small regional city in different countries to each other are in front of perth because more kids play the game in those locations is just plain dumb lol

I’d love to see a png club one day but it’s probably 20-30 years away at least.

 

[taipan]

Lol, he said there’d be a surplus, he said in that in response to the criticsism of the last two years of the nrl being in the red, suggesting that it’s ok to be in the red at the end of a tv deal as there are surpluses at the beginning.
What he failed to mention was those surpluses were supposed to create a future fund, not be used to cover losses!

Oh please LOL.
So if there is a surplus, you want them to blow it on the Pirates,now or build up a future fund?
You want you friggin cake and eat it.
Blame the likes of Grant for going into the red and indeed Smith who threw money around at head office like confetti ala Commercial Banking style.Blame Grant for the extra $3m added to the clubs.
Blame the previous crap TV deals we negotiated,whilst fumbleball sat back laughing.
No wonder Gallop is hardly setting the world on fire with the A League.You never hear or see him, front news conferences.

 

[Perth Red]

They can do what they like with it, just telling you want the whole comment on expected surplus this year was really about. He was making excuses for three years of poor financial performance. Smith had two years of big surpluses with the aim of having a nest egg for a rainy day. Typical banker really.
Since Todd took over we’ve had years of losses and spent the nest egg covering those losses. You made it sound like the predicted $40mill surplus this year would be available for expansion if they chose, that is highly doubtful based on their commentary about predicted losses down the track.

2012 $9.4mill loss
2013 $45.3mill surplus
2014 $21.8mill surplus
2015 $8.1mill loss
2016 $2.6mill loss
2017 $3.7mill loss

And those losses are non consolidated, throw in the consolidated losses and they are significantly higher.

 

[taipan]

They can do what they like with it, just telling you want the whole comment on expected surplus this year was really about. He was making excuses for three years of poor financial performance. Smith had two years of big surpluses with the aim of having a nest egg for a rainy day. Typical banker really.
Since Todd took over we’ve had years of losses and spent the nest egg covering those losses. You made it sound like the predicted $40mill surplus this year would be available for expansion if they chose, that is highly doubtful based on their commentary about predicted losses down the track.

2012 $9.4mill loss
2013 $45.3mill surplus
2014 $21.8mill surplus
2015 $8.1mill loss
2016 $2.6mill loss
2017 $3.7mill loss

And those losses are non consolidated, throw in the consolidated losses and they are significantly higher.

And what did Smith do with those surpluses.It didn't go to the clubs, nor junior rugby league ,nor the bush.Yeah I can save for a rainy day, by telling my family rice is on the menu 5 days of the week.How much did he waste on lavish functions and the usual first class airfares etc

And how much surplus would there have been ,if the code had received the proper monies for the TV deals in the past?

$150m toward digital,bunker, additional D/Os and paying out overpriced Smith appointed execs who did little, they were retrenched.The integrity units costs thrown in as additionals.
Who financially underpinned the Knights/Titans until they were sold,and underpinned the Tigers and Dragons.?Not the Macquarie Bank,but the NRL.Investment opportunities lost.
Davey's payout also.

Smith wasted a hell of a lot on unnecessary staff, and held back needed funds.Hardly a financial genius.Prudent but did little for the grassroots that needed it.

The AFL also lost money from memory last year.

Whoever took over, the cast was sealed with the pathetic TV deals of the past.All of the current and former CEOs have to take a share of the blame.
From the day sold the TV deal for $500m over 6 years ,and he fumblers got $780m over 5 years, we were behind the 8 ball.
I didn't say the $40m would be used for expansion now.I they keep adding to it, then they are in a better position to do so.Highly doubtful, that's your expected negative repsons

You whinged when Smith was in power, you whinged when Gallop or guess more like it.was ditto, and now Greenberg.
You need a life mate.You not a very happy chappie.
You still complain if the code had $80 m in the future fund.it's in your DNA.

 

[Springs09]

They’re at the bottom of the list for a reason.

Adelaide won’t be ready for a team for at least 10 years, but it is a critical market and we do need to develop it.

And so is PNG, Fiji, Central Coast, Central Queensland etc.

Adelaide should not be in the conversation until they have a substantial bid with a lot of support behind it.

And it has to be an excellent bid to explain why we are looking past the diehards in Central Coast and PNG to give an AFL city a team that has barely shown any interest in our game at all.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

My thoughts on Adelaide are that they are definately at the bottom of the list, and that list for me is:

1. Perth
2. Brisbane 2
3. NZ 2
4. Adelaide

But we do have to plan for Adelaide in the future if for no other reason than they are the 4th biggest city in the country. Given that it is a staunch AFL city, there may never be a bid, but that doesn't mean the NRL can't be proactive, do the ground-work, promote the game, get South Australians playing touch football and tackle RL and send test matches, (more) Origin matches and (more) NRL matches to Adelaide Oval.

Once there is some ground work and a larger RL community in Adelaide, the NRL (and we are talking 10 plus years here easily) can create a club and enter it into the NRL. We don't always have to sit back and wait for bids to come in.

Yes, it requires work and yes it requires money but we can't just sit back and say - oh well, the 4th biggest population centre in the country doesn't like Rugby League.

 

[Perth Red]

out of curiosity, is there a particular logistical reason why Perth are aligned with NSW as opposed to QRL competitions. Storm have their affiliates in QLD, and previously Manly and Canberra did until NSWRL stepped in. Just wondering if there is a particular reason to go this way.

Cost and ease of travel. There is less involved in the mainly sydney comp than qland which has clubs spread throughout the state. Perth toTownsville for example is a massive trip

 

[Springs09]

My thoughts on Adelaide are that they are definately at the bottom of the list, and that list for me is:

1. Perth
2. Brisbane 2
3. NZ 2
4. Adelaide

But we do have to plan for Adelaide in the future if for no other reason than they are the 4th biggest city in the country. Given that it is a staunch AFL city, there may never be a bid, but that doesn't mean the NRL can't be proactive, do the ground-work, promote the game, get South Australians playing touch football and tackle RL and send test matches, (more) Origin matches and (more) NRL matches to Adelaide Oval.

Once there is some ground work and a larger RL community in Adelaide, the NRL (and we are talking 10 plus years here easily) can create a club and enter it into the NRL. We don't always have to sit back and wait for bids to come in.

Yes, it requires work and yes it requires money but we can't just sit back and say - oh well, the 4th biggest population centre in the country doesn't like Rugby League.

Yes that's all true but I don't see why that puts them over any of the existing bids. I'd have them at the very bottom:
1. Perth
2. Brisbane 2
3. NZ/Pacific 2
4. Brisbane/QLD 5
5. Central Coast
6. Cairns/PNG
7. Adelaide

I'd also much rather an actual bid with support (like the first 6 all have) rather than a plastic club created out of thin air by the NRL.

Yes Adelaide is the 5th biggest city in Australia but are we better trying to gain 5% support from there or 95% support from Queensland, Central Coast and PNG? Along with the increased crowds, juniors, participation and TV viewers those teams would create. Who knows maybe Adelaide could take off, but I don't know why diehards in QLD, CC and PNG should miss out because of that possibility. Not to mention what even half a team in PNG could do for PNG's professional development and presence on the international stage.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Yes that's all true but I don't see why that puts them over any of the existing bids. I'd have them at the very bottom:
1. Perth
2. Brisbane 2
3. NZ/Pacific 2
4. Brisbane/QLD 5
5. Central Coast
6. Cairns/PNG
7. Adelaide

I'd also much rather an actual bid with support (like the first 6 all have) rather than a plastic club created out of thin air by the NRL.

Yes Adelaide is the 5th biggest city in Australia but are we better trying to gain 5% support from there or 95% support from Queensland, Central Coast and PNG? Along with the increased crowds, juniors, participation and TV viewers those teams would create. Who knows maybe Adelaide could take off, but I don't know why diehards in QLD, CC and PNG should miss out because of that possibility. Not to mention what even half a team in PNG could do for PNG's professional development and presence on the international stage.

I see your point with regards to the heartlands in QLD and PNG - I just don't feel that Cairns and PNG are perfect as QLD Cup locations and places like Adelaide and Perth, whilst initially have lower support levels, help us access sponsors and media on a national level which really will accelerate the growth of the game (even if Adelaide itself is a slow burner).

I have no doubt at all that the passion and support is greater in Cairns or PNG - I just don't think that it does more to grow our footprint. I 100% agree with NZ expansion and Central Coast for me would be best as a Sydney relocation.

 

[The Great Dane]

Anyone ignoring Adelaide is just out of touch with the realities of the Australian market and what is in the interests of broadcasters, advertisers, sponsors, etc.

Sure Adelaide doesn't have a strong RL culture but they represent basically a whole untapped market, and it's inevitable that in pursuit of advertisers and sponsors money that a club will eventually be based there, and in a sensible world they'll get a club long before your CQ's, CC's, and Pacific clubs happen (realistically none of those places should ever get a club unless there is a total restructure of the competition) even if the Adelaide club resembles clubs like GWS, the Sun, or Lions in AFL, cause they'll be their purely for commercial reasons and not necessarily cause people want them there.

Also the idea that places like Adelaide, Perth, etc, need to prove that they deserve a club by begging for one or whatever is completely out of touch with reality and how you build fan bases, you simply can't expect them or anyone else to want something when they don't even know that it exists or understand what it is, and the only way they are going to learn about it is to be introduced to it, in Perth or CQ case people have taken RL with them into those communities when they've moved there, in Adelaides' case for reasons outside of their or our control that hasn't happened.
There's also the realities of the market, RL is never going to be able to compete in a market like Perth and Adelaide where they have clubs in other sports national competitions unless RL has a big time professional club in a national competition based there, in the long run a top down approach is the only way that the sport is going to compete in markets like that.

 

[The Great Dane]

Oh and BTW, anyone talking about the CC, CQ, or PNG getting a club in at least the next 35-50 years is simply out of touch with the realities of those markets and the position that the NRL is in (unless they are talking about relocation), it shouldn't happen and almost certainly isn't going to happen and it's all for reasons outside of the NRL's control.

The CC market would be to reliant on the Sydney market to support the club, and due to oversaturation in Sydney the NRL can't afford to add pressure on that market, also there will almost always be better options out there.

CQs' population is to small and spread-out over to large an area without a large central location to support a club, and there'll always be better options for expansion on the table.

And where do we start with PNG! Lets just say that it's a third world country that has heaps of issues that it needs to fix before the idea of ever having a club based there is entertained.
Maybe if the club was based in Cairns (or another Australian city) it could work, but I imagine that would blow out costs, and again there will always be more lucrative options on the table.