NRL's growth mindset points to 18th team. And it ain't Perth.

[Colk]

In NSW if there are no injuries almost all of the NSW Cup players TODAY have a NRL contract

By establishing a National RG you give opportunities to a pool of players from the 250 players who graduate U20s EVERY YEAR who would most likely just retire to play in a revamped NSW Cup in a part-time league

If good enough they will earn a chance through the current feeder arrangements, if not, playing in a semi-professional league allows to enjoy playing and plan for life after football

To a less extent this would also occur in Qld

You do realise that underlines my point and not yours don’t you? You are going to have reserve grade filled with 21 year olds because if they don’t make it straight away they are simply no good.

 

[Wb1234]

Same reason as they do today

Ability and performance

Same reason players 31-40 get picked in RG today in NSW

And if they prove their good enough they will get a Top 30 contract

But it does do is allow another 130 players to play a higher standard that A grade for the 250 players EVERY YEAR that graduate from U20s

Every one of these posts is bang on the money

 

[mongoose]

I am not defending QRL or NSWRL as organisations (I couldn’t give a s*** about them) because they are essentially like any organisation - they are filled with some people who are competent and some people who are incompetent. What I am suggesting is that no sport follows this structure - they don’t have clubs running everything like personal fiefdoms because by nature it is exclusionary.

For any area that is unfortunate enough not to have an NRL club within its radius where is the investment coming from: any player development in an area becomes predicated on an NRL club being in that area. I could say that it has often been like this but a national RG competition would completely enshrine it.

For example, if you are in regional Queensland now, you have to hope you are picked up when you are 16 or 17 or move to Brisbane of your own accord otherwise you now have no opportunity. Right now a player missed by an NRL side could still get picked up by a local Queensland Cup side, work their way up and potentially get scouted by an NRL side by proving himself against past, present and future first graders/fringe first graders in a decent competition. Furthermore, what about those advocating for PNG or other Pacific Islands for example? At least with a QLD Cup type competition you get them playing a good standard of football against NRL contracted players which will in turn improve their standard and produce more NRL players. Happy for them to play in an amateur competition now?

It would also be a strange decision considering the recent increase of players being picked up when they are in their mid 20’s (a bit like what happens in the minor leagues in the states - what we should be doing) which suggests that the system is kind of working. If you do this, you’ll see a whole bunch of blokes who are 21 and 22 with their NRL career finished - not particularly smart.

yep, bang on the money.

 

[Iamback]

You do realise that underlines my point and not yours don’t you? You are going to have reserve grade filled with 21 year olds because if they don’t make it straight away they are simply no good.

Why? NSW Cup and QLD cup teams have older guys, What is going to change?

 

[Colk]

Why? NSW Cup and QLD cup teams have older guys, What is going to change?

I have addressed this in multiple previous posts so I’m not going to continually repeat myself.

You obviously just can’t see or you are ignoring the issue because it doesn’t affect your club or people who live in Sydney and Brisbane but the model (hopefully it doesn’t happen) is anti growth, anti expansion and anti regional football and in turn reduces the potential player pool. Most other sports don’t do it because it doesn’t make sense

 

[Colk]

yep, bang on the money.

I am not sure whether people are ignoring the issue because it doesn’t matter to them or they actually can’t see the disadvantages but surely the issues are obvious

 

[Perth Red]

Mentioned in another thread but look at uk where the 2nd and 3rd tiers are not reserve grade, here’s clubs that are now in those leagues from non RL cities. Compare that to here where it’s virtually impossible for a club to join the second tier comps unless funded by pokie machines/nrl club and stacked with nrl reserve graders. It’s not helping growth of the game the current model.

Championship
London Broncos
Newcastle
Sheffield
York

League1
North Wales
Midlands
London Skolars
Cornwall
West Wales

 

[Canard]

Mentioned in another thread but look at uk where the 2nd and 3rd tiers are not reserve grade, here’s clubs that are now in those leagues from non RL cities. Compare that to here where it’s virtually impossible for a club to join the second tier comps unless funded by pokie machines/nrl club and stacked with nrl reserve graders. It’s not helping growth of the game the current model.

Championship
London Broncos
Newcastle
Sheffield
York

League1
North Wales
Midlands
London Skolars
Cornwall
West Wales

What level of Rugby League exists below this though? I would guess 2/3rds of f**k all.

Regional districts in Queensland, for example, have Rugby League comps which are semi-pro, as does all of regional NSW (something this forum seems to have its head up its arse about).

I would also hazard a guess that the Cairns and District Rugby League team, for example, would easily compete against the sides you have named, and probably destroy a few of them.

You seem to think a teams need to be created to cater for your specific entertainment requirements, which is a small niche.

To desire to lower the standard and quality of players in a competition, is f**king bonkers.

 

[Iamback]

I have addressed this in multiple previous posts so I’m not going to continually repeat myself.

You obviously just can’t see or you are ignoring the issue because it doesn’t affect your club or people who live in Sydney and Brisbane but the model (hopefully it doesn’t happen) is anti growth, anti expansion and anti regional football and in turn reduces the potential player pool. Most other sports don’t do it because it doesn’t make sense

No, You haven't said why Rockhampton Leagues club for example will stop funding the Capras?

Nor where someone say Perth gets a team into either State's competition

 

[Perth Red]

What level of Rugby League exists below this though? I would guess 2/3rds of f**k all.

Regional districts in Queensland, for example, have Rugby League comps which are semi-pro, as does all of regional NSW (something this forum seems to have its head up its arse about).

I would also hazard a guess that the Cairns and District Rugby League team, for example, would easily compete against the sides you have named, and probably destroy a few of them.

You seem to think a teams need to be created to cater for your specific entertainment requirements, which is a small niche.

To desire to lower the standard and quality of players in a competition, is f**king bonkers.

amateur leagues sit below this semi pro level, when you say semi pro for regional districts, do you mean decent pay or a meat tray and free bar for turning out? Semi pro covers a very wide range of 'payment' for playing.
You can guess all you like, doesn't make it a reality lol
I think the ARLC need to look at the problems we have and if there are better solutions. My entertainment needs are already well catered for thanks.
To keep doing the same thing the same way and expect a different result is f**king bonkers!

 

[Iamback]

amateur leagues sit below this semi pro level, when you say semi pro for regional districts, do you mean decent pay or a meat tray and free bar for turning out? Semi pro covers a very wide range of 'payment' for playing.
You can guess all you like, doesn't make it a reality lol
I think the ARLC need to look at the problems we have and if there are better solutions. My entertainment needs are already well catered for thanks.
To keep doing the same thing the same way and expect a different result is f**king bonkers!

I very rarely agree with you, In this case though

A Broncos Reserve grade team - Takes players from Wynnum, Norths, Souths-Logan etc. Though those teams still will survive in their current form.

So too a NSW Cup team, Fiji are running half a team in NSW Cup because they can't compete. Mounties pulled the plug because with no NRL players they can't compete,

These comps are perfect for Victoria, Perth, Country areas to run clubs but atm it is impossible

 

[Perth Red]

I very rarely agree with you, In this case though

A Broncos Reserve grade team - Takes players from Wynnum, Norths, Souths-Logan etc. Though those teams still will survive in their current form.

So too a NSW Cup team, Fiji are running half a team in NSW Cup because they can't compete. Mounties pulled the plug because with no NRL players they can't compete,

These comps are perfect for Victoria, Perth, Country areas to run clubs but atm it is impossible

Thats the biggest problem I can see, its a closed shop really with nowhere to grow. It stymies growth and leaves cities that will never get an NRL club with little to support as the comp and the clubs are not legit in the slightest and unless you have a LC or NRL club pumping in millions its impossible to be competitive. Whilst QRL cup is a much better spread NSW cup is largely metro based and offering nothing to important regional NSW.
So I think we can all agree the current second tier system doesnt work from a growth and genuine comp for fans point of view.
So does it work as a reserve grade system? Well in some ways yes and it provides a reasonable level of competition for players to develop, in NSW at least most of the clubs are directly run by the NRL club so have consistency of training etc and its partially funded for many teams by other areas not the FC operations, making it a cheaper option. On the downside it may be that only a 1/3rd - 1/2 of the team are actually NRL reserve graders or youngsters on development contracts so its not actually a decent sized pool of reserve graders. Its not really filled the void left behind by disbanding the U20's NRL comp either.

Its not an easy one to sort out but the game is now heading to the level of funding available where it could be quite radical in realigning things to create better outcomes in both these areas.

 

[Canard]

amateur leagues sit below this semi pro level, when you say semi pro for regional districts, do you mean decent pay or a meat tray and free bar for turning out? Semi pro covers a very wide range of 'payment' for playing.
You can guess all you like, doesn't make it a reality lol
I think the ARLC need to look at the problems we have and if there are better solutions. My entertainment needs are already well catered for thanks.
To keep doing the same thing the same way and expect a different result is f**king bonkers!

There is no "amateur" senior footy in Queensland and most players have contracts that subsist there sham "job".

For example, some playing for in the Cairns Brothers would include the use of a sponsors car, a pre-arranged "job", win bonuses and an annual salary in the order of $50 to $80k depending on the experience and role you played in the team (often captain/coaches are a thing at this level).

Even when I was playing 30 years ago, you got a $1500 win bonus for first grade (on top of a fairly basic yearly salary), shit you even got a $500 win bonus for playing reserve grade.

 

[Canard]

Thats the biggest problem I can see, its a closed shop really with nowhere to grow. It stymies growth and leaves cities that will never get an NRL club with little to support as the comp and the clubs are not legit in the slightest and unless you have a LC or NRL club pumping in millions its impossible to be competitive. Whilst QRL cup is a much better spread NSW cup is largely metro based and offering nothing to important regional NSW.
So I think we can all agree the current second tier system doesnt work from a growth and genuine comp for fans point of view.

Couldn't disagree more. Given the strength and history of these comps, I think it would be more sensible (and far more economical) for a new team to enter into the pre-existing comps.

Well in some ways yes and it provides a reasonable level of competition for players to develop, in NSW at least most of the clubs are directly run by the NRL club so have consistency of training etc and its partially funded for many teams by other areas not the FC operations, making it a cheaper option. On the downside it may be that only a 1/3rd - 1/2 of the team are actually NRL reserve graders or youngsters on development contracts so its not actually a decent sized pool of reserve graders. Its not really filled the void left behind by disbanding the U20's NRL comp either.

I don't object to NRL run U/20s returning, and think its removal was a massive step back. I said it at the time, and I say it now.

 

[Perth Red]

Couldn't disagree more. Given the strength and history of these comps, I think it would be more sensible (and far more economical) for a new team to enter into the pre-existing comps.


I don't object to NRL run U/20s returning, and think its removal was a massive step back. I said it at the time, and I say it now.

So how would you address the problem of a new club coming in that doesn't have NRL reserve grade players in it and doesnt have a LC or NRL club funding it? Fans aren't interested in the current comps as they aren't legit comps so how do you generate any revenue as a new club in these comps, and how do you avoid getting flogged by the nrl reserve grade clubs?

 

[Iamback]

Thats the biggest problem I can see, its a closed shop really with nowhere to grow. It stymies growth and leaves cities that will never get an NRL club with little to support as the comp and the clubs are not legit in the slightest and unless you have a LC or NRL club pumping in millions its impossible to be competitive. Whilst QRL cup is a much better spread NSW cup is largely metro based and offering nothing to important regional NSW.
So I think we can all agree the current second tier system doesnt work from a growth and genuine comp for fans point of view.
So does it work as a reserve grade system? Well in some ways yes and it provides a reasonable level of competition for players to develop, in NSW at least most of the clubs are directly run by the NRL club so have consistency of training etc and its partially funded for many teams by other areas not the FC operations, making it a cheaper option. On the downside it may be that only a 1/3rd - 1/2 of the team are actually NRL reserve graders or youngsters on development contracts so its not actually a decent sized pool of reserve graders. Its not really filled the void left behind by disbanding the U20's NRL comp either.

Its not an easy one to sort out but the game is now heading to the level of funding available where it could be quite radical in realigning things to create better outcomes in both these areas.

QCup is good but you still have Guys in Mackay missing out on action because Cowboys need some professionals game time.

Wyong tried to run a team, Penrith was going to have their based from Bathurst but is too hard.

Having these teams play before NRL games, Same travel schedule means you have anyone on the same schedule. Much better than the farce of NRL sides playing 2 days before the reserve grade side playing, Which makes some of those unavailable the following game.

Getting these guys out of the way, Gets the guys 21 or 22, Returned from England any new markets into the game and develops more future players

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I am not defending QRL or NSWRL as organisations (I couldn’t give a s*** about them) because they are essentially like any organisation - they are filled with some people who are competent and some people who are incompetent. What I am suggesting is that no sport follows this structure - they don’t have clubs running everything like personal fiefdoms because by nature it is exclusionary.

For any area that is unfortunate enough not to have an NRL club within its radius where is the investment coming from: any player development in an area becomes predicated on an NRL club being in that area. I could say that it has often been like this but a national RG competition would completely enshrine it.

For example, if you are in regional Queensland now, you have to hope you are picked up when you are 16 or 17 or move to Brisbane of your own accord otherwise you now have no opportunity. Right now a player missed by an NRL side could still get picked up by a local Queensland Cup side, work their way up and potentially get scouted by an NRL side by proving himself against past, present and future first graders/fringe first graders in a decent competition. Furthermore, what about those advocating for PNG or other Pacific Islands for example? At least with a QLD Cup type competition you get them playing a good standard of football against NRL contracted players which will in turn improve their standard and produce more NRL players. Happy for them to play in an amateur competition now?

It would also be a strange decision considering the recent increase of players being picked up when they are in their mid 20’s (a bit like what happens in the minor leagues in the states - what we should be doing) which suggests that the system is kind of working. If you do this, you’ll see a whole bunch of blokes who are 21 and 22 with their NRL career finished - not particularly smart.

PNG are faring quite well in the RLWC. It shows the PNG Hunters' decade in the Queensland Cup is starting to produce a more robust group of players capable of competing with NRL players. Traditional NSWRL fans want to erode these gains so a few hundred dinosaurs can watch three grades.

 

[Colk]

No, You haven't said why Rockhampton Leagues club for example will stop funding the Capras?

Nor where someone say Perth gets a team into either State's competition

Pfft

Rockhampton Leagues club might want to fund the Capras (that’s their own prerogative) but if you don’t think it will have a negative effect on the clubs and those regions then you are deluded. They would be funding an amateur team and providing no link to the NRL for the players in that region. More importantly who is playing in this competition now. If you are 22 and you are not re-signed and there is no link left to the NRL what do you think it will happen? They might play socially in Australia or if they want to continue their career they will play in England or try their hand at Union. Their career is essentially finished with the NRL.

The churn or turnover of players in this idea will be absolutely huge - you are essentially reducing the amount of second grade sides from 26 to 17. That is the push factor. Couple this with the idea of a NYC (which is a very good thing but that’s the pull factor) clubs will be making decisions on players in an incredibly short time. You also won’t be seeing many mature players in ‘reserve grade’ if this decision goes through

2. The point I was making was that if you essentially wanted to expand, the argument made by some people against certain areas is that they don’t have a bunch of juniors (it is a stupid argument nonetheless) but how are they going to improve their development if they have no access to competitions like QLD Cup in its current format which ironically is what some people suggest they do. What you want them to enter into a state amateur competition and wear the costs to prove what?

 

[Colk]

PNG are faring quite well in the RLWC. It shows the PNG Hunters' decade in the Queensland Cup is starting to produce a more robust group of players capable of competing with NRL players. Traditional NSWRL fans want to erode these gains so a few hundred dinosaurs can watch three grades.

Exactly.

The irony is that some of those people advocating for them to have a side in the NRL are also supportive of Qld Cup being a third tier competition.

 

[Perth Red]

Exactly.

The irony is that some of those people advocating for them to have a side in the NRL are also supportive of Qld Cup being a third tier competition.

PNG wouldnt be in Qlnd cup if NRl wasnt funding it, and there in lies the problem.