NRL's growth mindset points to 18th team. And it ain't Perth.

[Iamback]

Well if the NRL teams HAVE to look after a full squad reserve grade as a part of their licencing agreement, plus recieving the grant to manage that, we are going to see some clubs struggle, and the ones who already do that like panthers, souffs and dogs flourish moreso..
Keep an eye on rosters, manly, and eels these next few years, they'll be S.T.ruggling

Teams are running not far off that anyway now. If you look at the squad sizes in Pre-season, Extended squads in u20's, Then the younger guys who join after the u18's.

 

[Colk]

On the plus side it will mean that perth, melbourne, Adelaide and singapore will have lots of feeder club options in RL heartlands!

How? Feeder options full of players who are amateurs?

 

[Iamback]

How? Feeder options full of players who are amateurs?

Or kids that aren't quite Reserve grade ready

 

[Colk]

You and others are anti national reserve grade comp, So where are NRL clubs suppose to prepare fringe guys for FG?

Huh? This isn’t a problem for any other sport. Essentially, you’d pick players from a minor league or something that is organised separately from the clubs i.e something that is decentralised where the funding remains in a seperate area.

The problem with this idea (and you have to look outside of the NRL club you support) is when funding becomes centralised money inevitably gets pulled from rural and regional clubs for the betterment of NRL clubs. It also reduces opportunities for players from rural and regional areas because opportunities are dependent solely on whether that area is fortunate or unfortunate to have a NRL club looking after it. At least with the QLD Cup, there are clubs covering the width and breadth of the state and giving them the opportunity to be picked up directly from those areas and playing for those clubs - there is a direct link from bush to second grade to first grade

 

[Iamback]

Huh? This isn’t a problem for any other sport. Essentially, you’d pick players from a minor league or something that is organised separately from the clubs i.e something that is decentralised where the funding remains in a seperate area.

The problem with this idea (and you have to look outside of the NRL club you support) is when funding becomes centralised money inevitably gets pulled from rural and regional clubs for the betterment of NRL clubs. It also reduces opportunities for players from rural and regional areas because opportunities are dependent solely on whether that area is fortunate or unfortunate to have a NRL club looking after it. At least with the QLD Cup, there are clubs covering the width and breadth of the state and giving them the opportunity to be picked up directly from those areas and playing for those clubs - there is a direct link from bush to second grade to first grade

Warriors, Roosters and Manly have now decided to field their own teams, They wouldn't do this if the feeder team system worked

Does it though?

Wollongong - Through Dragons
Hunter - Through Knights
Southern NSW - Through Camberra
Central West - Panthers
Central Coast - Roosters
Fiji - Roosters
New Zealand - Through Warriors
Narellan/southern Highlands - Wests

Titans cover Northern NSW

Most areas in the state have a pathway to the top grade. Take the Roosters they fund the CC competition. Penrith run academies in Forbes, Dubbo and Bathurst. So clubs put into those areas

You live in the Hunter, Would locals prefer the top clubs play in the local League or in a State Cup?

 

[The Great Dane]

Hopefully QLD resist this change. With this decision they are essentially removing any link between the NRL and rural and regional football. It’s mind numbingly stupid

Yeah, hopefully Qld fight it to the end.

In NSW it'll further limit participation outside of the NRL club's catchments, which will lead to even less community engagement and will crush the grassroots, which will lead to an even more top heavy structure. It's a travesty, and is pretty typical in a sport where the professional players and clubs are eating up more and more of the revenue at the expense of investment in growth.

I don't know this for sure, as you'd have to collate the evidence and I haven't done that and don't have the time to do that, but it also seems to be indicative of a pattern of sports that are about to fail, or at least hit a rough patch where they retract. ARU, SL, A-league, Netball, NBL in the 90s, etc, etc, all saw significant investment, used most of it to increase player's salaries and pro club's grants at the expense of reinvesting it into the sport and business, and within a decade or so all of them were struggling.

The NRL seems to be following a very similar path ATM.

 

[The Great Dane]

Warriors, Roosters and Manly have now decided to field their own teams, They wouldn't do this if the feeder team system worked

They would if they were being paid to change their system, and old mate PVL is giving the Raiders a grant to run their own NSW Cup side, so I can't imagine that the same isn't being offered to the other clubs.

Does it though?

Wollongong - Through Dragons
Hunter - Through Knights
Southern NSW - Through Camberra
Central West - Panthers
Central Coast - Roosters
Fiji - Roosters
New Zealand - Through Warriors
Narellan/southern Highlands - Wests

Titans cover Northern NSW

Most areas in the state have a pathway to the top grade. Take the Roosters they fund the CC competition. Penrith run academies in Forbes, Dubbo and Bathurst. So clubs put into those areas

You live in the Hunter, Would locals prefer the top clubs play in the local League or in a State Cup?

Even if we accepted that the system is working the way you suggest (it doesn't, but whatever), that just means that the top 20-30 players in each of those regions, as the NRL clubs see them, in each age group from those regions have a pathway to the NRL.

Anybody that misses out on breaking into that system is screwed, because there'd no longer be a clear pathway for them to break into the system. As such you've just retracted the sports talent pool and participation numbers by thousands. So yeah, that's a f**king stupid idea on the face of it.

Furthermore, the grassroots don't exist purely to produce juniors for the professional level, and treating them as if they do will lead to disaster, but if we are going to focus exclusively on juniors, what about everywhere outside of the NRL club's catchment?

90%+ of kids whom go on to be professional athletes could have been NRL players if RL had offered them an opportunity at a young enough age. That's not to say that every one of them would take that opportunity, but they can't take the opportunity if it isn't offered, and what sense does it make to ignore their potential and leave them for other sports to hoover up. We should be offering as many of them as possible the opportunity to become NRL players, and we should be actively competing with the other codes for every athlete in Vic, WA, SA, Tas, and the NT that they develop.

To do that you need a standardised national system that is run independently of NRL clubs, because the Raiders for example, can't even fit all of the potential talent from Canberra and Queanbeyan into their system, let alone all of Southern NSW and/or other parts of the country. The best way to go about creating that system is debatable, but that is the route we should be going, but probably never will.

 

[Canard]

Which is why brisbane broncoes are a huge mess with their roster building.. they have the bulk of 6-7 QRL clubs to pick the eyes out of, but in doing that are swapping constantly in and out of halves, lack of team cohesion, this is a big risk every season for them without having a regular reserve grade side in the comp... yes NSW cup doesn't change much, and QRL admin are worried about becoming 3rd tier instead of being an equal 2nd teir with nsw cup as it is now, thats the real reason they are upset, but to me really nothing changes other than the clubs that were alone, like bears, mounties and jets are, without a direct pathway... its not to say they can't share one, mounties were with dogs and both had resereve grade teams, mick potter was the mounties coach, and took over as 1st grade dogs coach.. go figure...
Bears could stay with rosters, jets with sharks etc, qrl could do the same, as they do, just with an added bronx, cows & tits team amongst the qrl comp

That the Broncos choice though, they could align with one or more clubs in the QRL and they have chosen the model they have now.

Fielding 4 reserve grade NRL teams in the QRL would kill all the old BRL clubs and regional ones instantly, and for what reason? Why would we won't to stop having quality 2nd tier footy in Cairns, Rocky or Wynnum?

 

[Perth Red]

Wouldnt you have a regional system for NRl reserve grade and U18's link ups that feeds into the one point. Then if there is demand and funds for a second tier you could continue to have that? So not much different really except NRL teams run their own reserve grade and are linked to other areas and clubs who if they spot a talented player then gets fed into that clubs reserve grade. Arguably intensifies the quality and development facilitates of reserve grade and gives a genuine second division for clubs who can afford to play semi professionally at that level.

As has been said not everything has to exist just to feed the NRL. There is some big gaps for fans and players who dont have access to NRL clubs or arent linked to NRL in anyway. A legit second tier and a highly developed reserve grade seems a positive at both ends of the stick for me.

I'd have NRL squads of 28 first team players plus 10 U21's or U20's
18 first graders each week and 18 reserve graders (can call up from U18's if needed with a pay as you play arrangement outside cap)
Link ups to systems elsewhere where appropriate to ensure direct scouting etc to find the best kids to join the NRL U18's sides and any late developers

Second division of other non NRL clubs who can afford to be semi professional and have a min standard playing venue. This would see more options for regional NSW clubs to join a better comp. as well as the Qlnd cup clubs to remain playing at a decent level but this time in a legit national comp.

NSW and Qlnd State leagues will hate it, but tough.

 

[MugaB]

That the Broncos choice though, they could align with one or more clubs in the QRL and they have chosen the model they have now.

Fielding 4 reserve grade NRL teams in the QRL would kill all the old BRL clubs and regional ones instantly, and for what reason? Why would we won't to stop having quality 2nd tier footy in Cairns, Rocky or Wynnum?

Um i dont see a difference between having a broncos and dolphins reserve grade, and qcup clubs just playing qcup, people think there's one or the other

 

[Canard]

Um i dont see a difference between having a broncos and dolphins reserve grade, and qcup clubs just playing qcup, people think there's one or the other

? Aren't the NRL pushing for the QLD NRL sides to field teams in the QCup?

 

[Canard]

Wouldnt you have a regional system for NRl reserve grade and U18's link ups that feeds into the one point. Then if there is demand and funds for a second tier you could continue to have that? So not much different really except NRL teams run their own reserve grade and are linked to other areas and clubs who if they spot a talented player then gets fed into that clubs reserve grade. Arguably intensifies the quality and development facilitates of reserve grade and gives a genuine second division for clubs who can afford to play semi professionally at that level.

As has been said not everything has to exist just to feed the NRL. There is some big gaps for fans and players who dont have access to NRL clubs or arent linked to NRL in anyway. A legit second tier and a highly developed reserve grade seems a positive at both ends of the stick for me.

I'd have NRL squads of 28 first team players plus 10 U21's or U20's
18 first graders each week and 18 reserve graders (can call up from U18's if needed with a pay as you play arrangement outside cap)
Link ups to systems elsewhere where appropriate to ensure direct scouting etc to find the best kids to join the NRL U18's sides and any late developers

Second division of other non NRL clubs who can afford to be semi professional and have a min standard playing venue. This would see more options for regional NSW clubs to join a better comp. as well as the Qlnd cup clubs to remain playing at a decent level but this time in a legit national comp.

NSW and Qlnd State leagues will hate it, but tough.

I understand why you want this, because you see it as a genuine opportunity to have some RL in Perth, but at what cost?

This would kill the game in heartland areas like Cairns, Toowoomba, Rocky etc.

 

[MugaB]

? Aren't the NRL pushing for the QLD NRL sides to field teams in the QCup?

If they are is there a difference? No one is saying they all must put their tools down, and leave their comp...
I would've thought the reserve grade teams of phins, tits, bronx and cows, are playing vs the nsw cup sides on the game day of first grade, that theyd be in the pseudo nsw cup

 

[Perth Red]

I understand why you want this, because you see it as a genuine opportunity to have some RL in Perth, but at what cost?

This would kill the game in heartland areas like Cairns, Toowoomba, Rocky etc.

I respectfully disagree, in fact it could make it better. Those areas will never have an NRl club and at the moment have no legit club to follow locally. No ones interested in following a reserve grade team in a comp heavily influenced by whose loaning to who.

 

[Perth Red]

If they are is there a difference? No one is saying they all must put their tools down, and leave their comp...
I would've thought the reserve grade teams of phins, tits, bronx and cows, are playing vs the nsw cup sides on the game day of first grade, that theyd be in the pseudo nsw cup

I suppose difference is Broncos currently loan players out to 4 clubs. If they take all those players back and throw money at a team full of them then they will spank all the other non NRL reserve clubs in QRL cup. Not much fun if the top 4 of QRL cup is the 4 NRL reserve grade sides every season. Arguably the other clubs will also be so weakened that the game intensity will drop week in week out so will the up and coming Broncos players actually benefit in long run?
better the 4 teams join the other 13 teams in a reserve grade and QRL teams join with the remaining NSW cup teams in a second division.
Seems NRL will throw $1.7mill a year at each NRLW team, Id suggest a second division is actually more valuable to the game than NRLW.

 

[Colk]

Warriors, Roosters and Manly have now decided to field their own teams, They wouldn't do this if the feeder team system worked

Does it though?

Wollongong - Through Dragons
Hunter - Through Knights
Southern NSW - Through Camberra
Central West - Panthers
Central Coast - Roosters
Fiji - Roosters
New Zealand - Through Warriors
Narellan/southern Highlands - Wests

Titans cover Northern NSW

Most areas in the state have a pathway to the top grade. Take the Roosters they fund the CC competition. Penrith run academies in Forbes, Dubbo and Bathurst. So clubs put into those areas

You live in the Hunter, Would locals prefer the top clubs play in the local League or in a State Cup?

As Great Dane more eloquently put you are in effect limiting the entry point for players into the NRL. That’s the problem.

Look at the current system in QLD Cup. You can also compare to other systems where they don’t have a ‘reserve grade’ if you want (for example the Yankees don’t have a reserve grade side) What these systems offer is the opportunity for players who aren’t contracted to prove themselves against blokes who are contracted or affiliated to major or first grade sides. That means an opportunity for individuals who aren’t stars when they were juniors (not everybody develops at the same rate for example). Look at Royce Hunt as a case in point. He wasn’t contracted to a club until what 25 and only after proving himself for a number of years for the Mounties. In a system that is being suggested - if somebody is not picked up when they’re 19 or 20 it is not like they are going to sway clubs to pick them up when they are playing against other amateurs.

Secondly, look at the maths of it as well. You have 17 under 20 competitions and reserve grade sides - think of the probable churn of players in this scenario. Clubs are in essence going to be forced to make decisions on players by the time they are 20 and then where do these players go? It makes no sense to cut off players by the time they are 20 or 21 when you are wanting to increase the talent pool.

Lastly, how does this help regional football. You are essentially forcing kids to make a decision to move from regional areas to Sydney or Brisbane before they are emotionally and intellectually capable of doing so. People want to go against the draft idea (and I’m not a proponent of it either) because young people are being forced to move to whatever area but at least in a system like that they are getting drafted after they are 18. This to me seems a lot worse and you know clubs will be scouting kids at a younger and younger age (you see this in soccer for example)

Btw that’s also not the choice being offered. It’s not like it’s only a choice between playing for the Knights reserve grade and say Wests Newcastle, South Newcastle or Maitland.

 

[MugaB]

I suppose difference is Broncos currently loan players out to 4 clubs. If they take all those players back and throw money at a team full of them then they will spank all the other non NRL reserve clubs in QRL cup. Not much fun if the top 4 of QRL cup is the 4 NRL reserve grade sides every season. Arguably the other clubs will also be so weakened that the game intensity will drop week in week out so will the up and coming Broncos players actually benefit in long run?
better the 4 teams join the other 13 teams in a reserve grade and QRL teams join with the remaining NSW cup teams in a second division.
Seems NRL will throw $1.7mill a year at each NRLW team, Id suggest a second division is actually more valuable to the game than NRLW.

I don't see them leaving these new qld reserve sides in the QRL, all i can see is the Qcup as is without the dolphins, NRL reserve grade, will be nsw cup, with storm, bris, cows, tits, & phins added
Qcup can still filter thru as they do just do it into their feeder clubs but into reserve grade.
Qcup stays as is

 

[Perth Red]

I don't see them leaving this reserve sides in the QRL, all i can see is the Qcup as is without the dolphins, NRL reserve grade, will be nsw cup, with storm, bris, cows, tits, & phins added
Qcup can still filter thru as they do just do it into their feeder clubs but into reserve grade.
Qcup stays as is

It'd be interesting to know if the NRL clubs currently provide funding to their feeder clubs and if that gets withdrawn what that means for them? I'm guessing clubs wont want to fund reserve grade AND other feeder clubs?

Do you think they'd have to change name of NSW cup and who runs it? Cant see Queensland clubs being thrilled at being in a comp run by NSWRL! Also do you think the current 4 non NRL NSW cup clubs have to drop out and where would they go?

 

[MugaB]

It'd be interesting to know if the NRL clubs currently provide funding to their feeder clubs and if that gets withdrawn what that means for them? I'm guessing clubs wont want to fund reserve grade AND other feeder clubs?

Do you think they'd have to change name of NSW cup and who runs it? Cant see Queensland clubs being thrilled at being in a comp run by NSWRL! Also do you think the current 4 non NRL NSW cup clubs have to drop out and where would they go?

Someone mentioned massey cup, where the Fijian silktails are, pretty sure that'll change to nsw cup or something else, they'll just rename the current one Toyota cup or whoever sponsors it, but its really NRL reserve grade

 

[Wb1234]

PVL is giving the Raiders a grant to run a NSW Cup side independently, and he did it intentionally to dissuade them from forming a joint venture with a smaller country club after the Mounties decided not to renew their deal with the Raiders.

He wants every club to have three grades/games on game day because 'that's what the fans want' apparently. The fact that it's not possible to have three games on many game days, and that nobody shows up to games held as openers to the NRL anyway, doesn't seem to matter to him.

No doubt the same has been offered to every NSW/ACT based NRL club, and that is what has influenced the Roosters (and Canterbury) to move towards their own NSW Cup sides. It's probably only a matter of time before Cronulla and Manly abandon the Jets and Workers as well, at which point the Bears, Jets, Mounties, and Workers days in the comp will be numbered, and any hope of expanding the NSW Cup to better represent NSW's population (i.e. actually taking the game back to the bush) will be dead.

So vlandys is offering clubs money to run more games before first grade and you’ve somehow turned that into a bad thing ?

lmao