NRL's growth mindset points to 18th team. And it ain't Perth.

[Perth Red]

I don't know if it would work these days, but making the NSW Cup and Queensland Cup more prestigious would solve many of these issues. Merge the 2 competitions into a national Division 1 league.

Sydney will be bigger in 2050, but it remains to be seen how many of its new people will play and watch RL. We need to make our game more appealing to kids and parents.

Our game needs to work with local government to get RL advertising into public parks. Have a section of each park designated for passing and kicking training. Have targets on a wall for patrons to aim at and award points based on how close they get to the target. There could be sensors on the board to decipher where the ball hit and a scoreboard that shows their score. If I was a kid I would use it. Put signs of famous players next to it and have written instructions on how to pass and kick properly. Promote it as getting kids active and socialising. That's how you get kids and parents to choose RL over the other codes.

I think given the way society is going NRL is going to need to try and take a leaf out of NFL’s book. By this I mean virtually no NFL fan ever played American football, certainly not past pee wee age. We have traditionally built our fanbase on getting people interested in the game by getting them playing it. As parents reduce contact sport options for their kids we might see that linkage disappearing. The nrl will have to spend a lot more money marketing, hype and getting the games players in front of the public eyes as superstars. New stadiums help give game day a big event feel and encourage people to attend, if we can fill them!

 

[Angry_eel]

I think another NZ team is a terrible idea. If you can't get 20K people in Perth or Adelaide and you're expecting NZ2 will get these crowds in the middle of Christchurch Winter, you're crazy.

People forget that Warriors continually get crowds of 5, 6, 7k after 20+ years of being there.

I would say other than money, If I wasn't adding a team in Perth or Adelaide, I'd put it in PNG. Mofos will break the stadium every week to get in to watch the team.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Logan played C Grade before 1988, reaching the 1987 GF where they lost to Redcliffe. The next year they were added to Reserves and A Grade in an expanded 10 team BRL. They were forced to sign an extremely expensive 15-year lease to play out of Meakin Park, despite wanting to be based out of Cronulla Park. The lease was so expensive it was greater than the combined total of every other sports club in Logan. It crippled the club from day 1. If the club had have entered the league 5 years earlier and given a decent deal it would still be around.

Local state member of Parliament Mick De Breni's son played at the Springwood AFL club - tells you all you need to know about his priorities when it comes to sports in Logan. I believe he served as the sports minister for a while in the past too.

 

[Perth Red]

I think another NZ team is a terrible idea. If you can't get 20K people in Perth or Adelaide and you're expecting NZ2 will get these crowds in the middle of Christchurch Winter, you're crazy.

People forget that Warriors continually get crowds of 5, 6, 7k after 20+ years of being there.

I would say other than money, If I wasn't adding a team in Perth or Adelaide, I'd put it in PNG. Mofos will break the stadium every week to get in to watch the team.

Its hard to see how another NZ could sustain an NRL club unless it had a very rich backer. Another team in Auckland would hurt the Warriors and then you are down to small cities of less than 400k for Christchurch and 250k for Wellington.

On a side note I was amazed to see how little NZRL operates on. Just $8million revenue last year!
NZRL - Annual Report (2019-2020) ONLINE FINAL.PDF - Google Drive

 

[titoelcolombiano]

People forget that Warriors continually get crowds of 5, 6, 7k after 20+ years of being there.
.

Do you mean when they play in Christchurch? Because if we are talking their home crowd averages in general, they have been pretty good, especially for a team historically starved for success:

2019: 16,146
2018: 17,376
2017: 11,753
2016: 14,302
2015: 14,704

 

[Angry_eel]

Do you mean when they play in Christchurch? Because if we are talking their home crowd averages in general, they have been pretty good, especially for a team historically starved for success:

2019: 16,146
2018: 17,376
2017: 11,753
2016: 14,302
2015: 14,704

Yea maybe it's a little higher than I thought but I see a few games close to 10K averages. Maybe those are in weather events.

 

[Angry_eel]

Its hard to see how another NZ could sustain an NRL club unless it had a very rich backer. Another team in Auckland would hurt the Warriors and then you are down to small cities of less than 400k for Christchurch and 250k for Wellington.

On a side note I was amazed to see how little NZRL operates on. Just $8million revenue last year!
NZRL - Annual Report (2019-2020) ONLINE FINAL.PDF - Google Drive

Maybe they're counting on Rugby fans to be rugby leage fans as well. It's probably right, I've seen more NZers open to RL than Australians.

Still on one hand, there's arguments against CC and Redcliffe/Sunshine Coast because of population and nek minnit you put a team in Christchurch for 400k people.

If an 18th team must come, it has to be Perth, Adelaide or PNG for me. That, or a NSW club moves. We know that won't be happening.

 

[mongoose]

Yea maybe it's a little higher than I thought but I see a few games close to 10K averages. Maybe those are in weather events.

ahh there's that double standard again. Teams like the Warriors, Titans, Raiders aren't allowed to have any sub 10k crowds but its ok for Sydney clubs to have them and roll out all the excuses in the world lol

 

[TheRam]

Christchurch would be an awesome option for a new RL team when this is available in 2024. But Perth should be our next team after Brisbane 2.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/b...ntractor-for-new-christchurch-stadium-delayed

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Local state member of Parliament Mick De Breni's son played at the Springwood AFL club - tells you all you need to know about his priorities when it comes to sports in Logan. I believe he served as the sports minister for a while in the past too.

I put him last on my ballot card.

 

[Angry_eel]

ahh there's that double standard again. Teams like the Warriors, Titans, Raiders aren't allowed to have any sub 10k crowds but its ok for Sydney clubs to have them and roll out all the excuses in the world lol

Fair point. I was just saying that Warriors aren't that successful, neither on the field nor off it.

Personally, I don't see another team in NZ being more successful either. But good luck to NRL under Vlad and Abdo, at least they'll be trying.

 

[The_Frog]

People forget that Warriors continually get crowds of 5, 6, 7k after 20+ years of being there.

Warriors historical average at Mt Smart is 14,116. This is pretty close to their average there in 2019.

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

Fair point. I was just saying that Warriors aren't that successful, neither on the field nor off it.

Personally, I don't see another team in NZ being more successful either. But good luck to NRL under Vlad and Abdo, at least they'll be trying.

That's my concern with NZ2 - if the Warriors had been braining it with huge crowds, members and on-field successes then absolutely a second team could (should) be explored. But it's been 25 years...and the Warriors (all things "pre-Covid" etc) are where they are - which is effectively the same place thev've been when they joined the comp. Yes they've had some decent crowds at times...and the odd good season... but if the Warriors can't get it humming in the biggest NZ city, where league is genuinely followed the most of ny part of the country.... How can we expect a 2nd team in much smaller cities, where league is far less of a followed-sport... to be a successful club on & off the field?

I genuinely want the Warriors to become a powerhouse. Have always wanted that. But they haven't been anywhere near that. And with that - the merits of a 2nd international (NZ) team just aren't there. Especially given the international travel aspects / associated costs.

Separately - and mentioned above... an average crowd of 14k would seemingly be above a lot of sydney clubs. But there are many differences between the two - a major one for me is sydney clubs don't have the extensive travel costs that an international team like the warriors have - on average travelling internationally every 2nd week. That extra cost needs to be offset by income significantly larger than sydney clubs get. Perhaps it's paytv subscriptions in NZ and/or the major sponsorship deals (eg Vodafone) of blue chips that cover this.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

That's my concern with NZ2 - if the Warriors had been braining it with huge crowds, members and on-field successes then absolutely a second team could (should) be explored. But it's been 25 years...and the Warriors (all things "pre-Covid" etc) are where they are - which is effectively the same place thev've been when they joined the comp. Yes they've had some decent crowds at times...and the odd good season... but if the Warriors can't get it humming in the biggest NZ city, where league is genuinely followed the most of ny part of the country.... How can we expect a 2nd team in much smaller cities, where league is far less of a followed-sport... to be a successful club on & off the field?

I genuinely want the Warriors to become a powerhouse. Have always wanted that. But they haven't been anywhere near that. And with that - the merits of a 2nd international (NZ) team just aren't there. Especially given the international travel aspects / associated costs.

Separately - and mentioned above... an average crowd of 14k would seemingly be above a lot of sydney clubs. But there are many differences between the two - a major one for me is sydney clubs don't have the extensive travel costs that an international team like the warriors have - on average travelling internationally every 2nd week. That extra cost needs to be offset by income significantly larger than sydney clubs get. Perhaps it's paytv subscriptions in NZ and/or the major sponsorship deals (eg Vodafone) of blue chips that cover this.

I can't really get on board with the idea that the Warriors need to be a powerhouse before a new team can come in. I think this is more of a strategic move (which we have been crying out for) to grow the game in NZ. Gus' appointment to look at grass roots, along with the NRL's long awaited commitment to growth of the game in NZ is a great thing and will make RL a bit bigger in a country with huge potential for the game both in terms of club and international RL. Add to that the growing influence Samoan and Tongan players and national teams are having then you have the potential for a huge growth spike in the next 5 - 10 years.

 

[Perth Red]

Nrl covers travel and accommodation costs. I guess they are hoping another club will see the game grow and be more attractive to tv and also get more people interested in Auckland supporting the warriors with some rivallary. Personally I think they’d be better spending then$15mill it will cost on nzrl and grassroots but they are going to need an 18th club to recoup costs via the extra content value.

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

I can't really get on board with the idea that the Warriors need to be a powerhouse before a new team can come in. I think this is more of a strategic move (which we have been crying out for) to grow the game in NZ. Gus' appointment to look at grass roots, along with the NRL's long awaited commitment to growth of the game in NZ is a great thing and will make RL a bit bigger in a country with huge potential for the game both in terms of club and international RL. Add to that the growing influence Samoan and Tongan players and national teams are having then you have the potential for a huge growth spike in the next 5 - 10 years.

My rationale is - if the biggest city (by far - estimated population of 1.5M) in NZ has had a team for 25 years and hasn't become successful, or even close to being a "powerhouse"... how can anyone expect far smaller cities in the same country (eg Christchurch the 2nd biggest NZ city at approx 400k) - burdened with the same international travel costs - to eclipse the warriors and become a successful expansion team.

I can't justify it now.

I think putting Gus in the Warriors is a very good strategic step in many ways. But even given developing further pacific island talent - plugging them into an area of relatively small population... with strong competition from Union.. what is the ROI to the NRL really here....

I think as it stand right now - based on that - the Central Coast is a better logical option. A "League" area of similar population less burdened with international travel costs.

So - it's just my opinion but to me, NZ2 isn't the next best step for an expansion team. It needs to be an Australian city with a significant population base than brings new revenue to the game in terms of members, eyeballs on tv, sponsors.

AKA, Brisbane 2, Perth, Adelaide.

If the Warriors do end up being a powerhouse, I can see merit increasing for NZ2. But not now.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I can't really get on board with the idea that the Warriors need to be a powerhouse before a new team can come in. I think this is more of a strategic move (which we have been crying out for) to grow the game in NZ. Gus' appointment to look at grass roots, along with the NRL's long awaited commitment to growth of the game in NZ is a great thing and will make RL a bit bigger in a country with huge potential for the game both in terms of club and international RL. Add to that the growing influence Samoan and Tongan players and national teams are having then you have the potential for a huge growth spike in the next 5 - 10 years.

Kiwis love nothing more than beating us Aussies. Having 2 teams will double their odds of doing that and have a game played there every week. Getting RL in the spotlight every week will get more kids interested in the game.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

My rationale is - if the biggest city (by far - estimated population of 1.5M) in NZ has had a team for 25 years and hasn't become successful, or even close to being a "powerhouse"... how can anyone expect far smaller cities in the same country (eg Christchurch the 2nd biggest NZ city at approx 400k) - burdened with the same international travel costs - to eclipse the warriors and become a successful expansion team.

I can't justify it now.

I think putting Gus in the Warriors is a very good strategic step in many ways. But even given developing further pacific island talent - plugging them into an area of relatively small population... with strong competition from Union.. what is the ROI to the NRL really here....

I think as it stand right now - based on that - the Central Coast is a better logical option. A "League" area of similar population less burdened with international travel costs.

So - it's just my opinion but to me, NZ2 isn't the next best step for an expansion team. It needs to be an Australian city with a significant population base than brings new revenue to the game in terms of members, eyeballs on tv, sponsors.

AKA, Brisbane 2, Perth, Adelaide.

If the Warriors do end up being a powerhouse, I can see merit increasing for NZ2. But not now.

Central Coast would be the worst place to put a new team. Its best chance is to become a 2nd home for the Roosters, with the club extending its range from Gosford down to the Sydney CBD. We need the Roosters to be the Brisbane Broncos of Sydney. There's no where in Australia more valuable than the Sydney CBD. Roosters are flying the flag for RL in the heartland of Australia's largest and most prestigious city. I say that as a Queenslander. I want to see Roosters getting 30k to their games and think it can be done if it's given enough market space and promotion on the North Shore, Northern Beaches and Central Coast.

I'd send Sea Eagles to Auckland as they have a fanbase in NZ. Many Kiwi Internationals have played for this club. Thats NZ covered.

Dragons can relocate to Adelaide. Tigers or Bulldogs to Perth. That way there's not so much overlap and the surviving 6 teams in Sydney can grow.

Dolphins and Firehawks to be the 2 new teams. Australia now has AwFuL beat.

 

[flippikat]

I think putting Gus in the Warriors is a very good strategic step in many ways.

I think it ties in brilliantly with the NRL's recently expressed desire to have a 2nd NZ club.

At the risk of sounding like a conspiracy nut, it does get me wondering whether this is part of some overarching plan by the NRL to capitalise on something that AFL doesn't have & can't offer.

 

[Perth Red]

An eye watering article in today’s courier mail about the Titans owner having to put $35mill of his own money in to them to keep them afloat. Bit of a wake up call for any new club about what sort of money is needed. I can’t see Christchurch having the fan base or corporate support to generate the sort of revenue a modern nrl club needs to be successful. Small population where Union is king and Australian fta had no interest or value in it. Only advantage I can see it has over options is the new stadium looks like it will be great.