NSW Clubs forced out of QLD Cup

[Bluebags1908]

How would having a team in Sydney promote the game in Canberra? Hardly likely the locals are going to travel to Sydney to follow them. I am presuming that at the moment any decent ACT players are being sent up to Q'land to play. What's the difference between that and having to travel up to Sydney (distance aside)? I bet you any money if they announced they were going to base there NSW cup team in Perth the NSWRL wouldn't have a problem with that. The problem I reckon is less that Canberra are not playing in Canberra (or close by) as much as that they have chosen to be in the Q'land cup.

As has been said, if the NSWRL was running the best 2nd grade comp then they wouldn't have to be dictating who does what, clubs would choose to be fielding teams in it.

Since when has anyone said that the Raiders NSW Cup team would be based in Sydney? I would be as much against that as I would the current arrangement with the team in Queensland. The Raider NSW Cup team needs to be based in ACT or Southern NSW.

 

[Canard]

For at least a year in the early 2000's the Cowboys fielded there Reserve grade side in the NSWRL/NRL, and didn't have a QLD cup side.

The Broncos only had QLD cup team and no NSWRL reserve side.

The QRL didn't like it but didn't threathen them with expulsion either.

 

[Raiders_Premiers]

Here we go... another hate-Sydney fool with an inferiority complex.

I am not saying the Raiders don't do good development work in other areas and through other teams in their region. What I am saying is that they could be doing even more by having a NSW Cup team as well - just like every NSW team does except for Manly, who also should be fielding a team in the NSW Cup.

One very simple question - how is not fielding a team in the NSW Cup GOOD for the game in the Canberra region? Answer: it's not. I rest my case.

I agree with you about what the Roosters did in initially pulling out of the NSW junior reps. In fact I wrote to the Roosters and the NRL about this at the time to voice my disgust. And thankfully due to external pressure the Roosters reversed their decision and fielded a team in the Harold Matthews and Newtown entered a team in SG Ball last year in place of the Roosters - which admitttedly is still not ideal but at least there was a SG Ball team in the Roosters area represented by Newtown so there was no actual reduction in the number of teams.

But this forum isn't about Sydney teams. Stick to the subject - it's about teams like the Raiders and Manly turning their back on the NSW Cup and the game in their region.

You really don't get it do you

 

[siv]

Funny how they didn't care that the NQ Young Guns used to play in NSW comps and the Titans play in the SG Ball and HM comps now...

They have sorted that out - they must now qualify through a Qld based U16/U18 comp before there is a national semi final process

 

[Walt Flanigan]

Here we go... another hate-Sydney fool with an inferiority complex.

I am not saying the Raiders don't do good development work in other areas and through other teams in their region. What I am saying is that they could be doing even more by having a NSW Cup team as well - just like every NSW team does except for Manly, who also should be fielding a team in the NSW Cup.

One very simple question - how is not fielding a team in the NSW Cup GOOD for the game in the Canberra region? Answer: it's not. I rest my case.

I agree with you about what the Roosters did in initially pulling out of the NSW junior reps. In fact I wrote to the Roosters and the NRL about this at the time to voice my disgust. And thankfully due to external pressure the Roosters reversed their decision and fielded a team in the Harold Matthews and Newtown entered a team in SG Ball last year in place of the Roosters - which admitttedly is still not ideal but at least there was a SG Ball team in the Roosters area represented by Newtown so there was no actual reduction in the number of teams.

But this forum isn't about Sydney teams. Stick to the subject - it's about teams like the Raiders and Manly turning their back on the NSW Cup and the game in their region.

You've written several posts saying exactly the same thing. It's clear that you're ignoring any valid points brought up by everyone else.

You clearly have no idea.

 

[gronkathon]

Ignoring valid points has happened on both sides of this debate princess.

 

[Walt Flanigan]

Ignoring valid points has happened on both sides of this debate princess.

Nice contribution there mate. Now go make your hubby some breakfast before he gets upset.

 

[greeneyed]

I only offered the Queanbeyan Kangaroos as a suggestion just to explain my point. It could be the Raiders in the NSW Cup or any other local club for that matter.

The comparison with Sydney teams in chalk and cheese. The Sydney teams that have pulled out of the NSW Cup have replaced them with local teams from their local area or very close to it (except for Manly). All Sydney teams have feeder arrangements with local Sydney teams - and almost all of them are with teams from the same part of Sydney the the NRL team represents.

Parramatta - Wentworthville
Penrith - Windsor
Dragons - Shellharbour
Roosters - Newtown
Souths - Norths
Wests Tigers - Balmain
Wests Tigers - Magpies
Cronulla field their own team
Bulldogs field their own team
Newcastle field their own team

This is exactly my point. The vast majority of Sydney NRL clubs have decided NOT to run their own full teams, but rather run teams in conjunction with another entity, and not meet the full costs of running a team in NSW Cup. The Sydney clubs deliberately abandoned Premier League so this could happen, so the express intention of reducing their costs. The NSWRL is now saying, essentially, that the Raiders must meet the full costs of running their own NSW Cup side - as there is no viable entity to team up with locally. Or, they are saying that we must invest in an area in Sydney, in the backyard of another NRL club... an already extremely overcrowded market... and likely benefit that other NRL club. It is inequitable, it is wrong.

 

[greeneyed]

Here we go... another hate-Sydney fool with an inferiority complex.

I am not saying the Raiders don't do good development work in other areas and through other teams in their region. What I am saying is that they could be doing even more by having a NSW Cup team as well - just like every NSW team does except for Manly, who also should be fielding a team in the NSW Cup.

One very simple question - how is not fielding a team in the NSW Cup GOOD for the game in the Canberra region? Answer: it's not. I rest my case.

I agree with you about what the Roosters did in initially pulling out of the NSW junior reps. In fact I wrote to the Roosters and the NRL about this at the time to voice my disgust. And thankfully due to external pressure the Roosters reversed their decision and fielded a team in the Harold Matthews and Newtown entered a team in SG Ball last year in place of the Roosters - which admitttedly is still not ideal but at least there was a SG Ball team in the Roosters area represented by Newtown so there was no actual reduction in the number of teams.

But this forum isn't about Sydney teams. Stick to the subject - it's about teams like the Raiders and Manly turning their back on the NSW Cup and the game in their region.

It is about Sydney teams, it is all about people in Sydney trying to tell us people in the ACT what to do. And to do what the teams in Sydney don't do themselves. That's the whole point!

If the NSWRL were to instruct all the Sydney teams to re-institute having full "reserve grade" teams in the NSW Cup, it would be a level playing field. But it isn't doing that.

The NSWRL are essentially instructing us to do one of two things: 1) link with a team in Sydney, like Mounties or Cabramatta - ie invest in and support a local team in Sydney or 2) put in a full Raiders team.

The NSWRL is quite open here: one of the choices they are outlining to us is to have a SYDNEY feeder team. Why? Why is that better than us having a feeder team in Brisbane?

The other choice is demanding something they are not demanding of Sydney clubs.

And is very relevant that Sydney clubs were on a path to completely abandoning any junior development squads, again to save costs.

 

[greeneyed]

Since when has anyone said that the Raiders NSW Cup team would be based in Sydney? I would be as much against that as I would the current arrangement with the team in Queensland. The Raider NSW Cup team needs to be based in ACT or Southern NSW.

If you were understanding what is going on, that is exactly what the NSWRL is telling the Raiders. That is one of the choices outlined to Canberra by the NSWRL.

 

[beave]

Sorry, but I fully support the stance taken by the NSWRL. Can you imagine the Broncos and Cowboys having Sydney-based feeder teams?

Canberra should be fostering development of the game in Southern NSW and ACT and fighting off AFL along the NSW-Vic border, not in Queensland.

the cowboys did something similar for 2 years. Our reserve grade team was denied access to the the QRL comp, so the club had no choice but to send the Young Guns down to sydney every 2nd weekend between 2000-2001 to play Newtown, Norths, Balmain, Wests etc.

 

[Perth Red]

Unless the ARL are prepared to fund it then they (pseudo NSWRL) should have no say where clubs decide to link up with. That should be up to the clubs. IF they are funding it fair enough they can dictate what happens.

 

[Bluebags1908]

This is exactly my point. The vast majority of Sydney NRL clubs have decided NOT to run their own full teams, but rather run teams in conjunction with another entity, and not meet the full costs of running a team in NSW Cup. The Sydney clubs deliberately abandoned Premier League so this could happen, so the express intention of reducing their costs. The NSWRL is now saying, essentially, that the Raiders must meet the full costs of running their own NSW Cup side - as there is no viable entity to team up with locally. Or, they are saying that we must invest in an area in Sydney, in the backyard of another NRL club... an already extremely overcrowded market... and likely benefit that other NRL club. It is inequitable, it is wrong.

** sigh **

Yes, the Sydney NRL clubs outsource their NSW Cup tams to another club in their local area - and that's just the point... it's in their local area.

Go back through all the posts I have written - did I once say I was against feeder arrangements with clubs in an NRL team's LOCAL AREA?

And where did I say the Raiders should have a feeder arrangement with a Sydney team? I would be dead against that too.

Stop making up obstacles to suit your agenda.

 

[Bluebags1908]

It is about Sydney teams, it is all about people in Sydney trying to tell us people in the ACT what to do. And to do what the teams in Sydney don't do themselves. That's the whole point!

If the NSWRL were to instruct all the Sydney teams to re-institute having full "reserve grade" teams in the NSW Cup, it would be a level playing field. But it isn't doing that.

The NSWRL are essentially instructing us to do one of two things: 1) link with a team in Sydney, like Mounties or Cabramatta - ie invest in and support a local team in Sydney or 2) put in a full Raiders team.

The NSWRL is quite open here: one of the choices they are outlining to us is to have a SYDNEY feeder team. Why? Why is that better than us having a feeder team in Brisbane?

The other choice is demanding something they are not demanding of Sydney clubs.

And is very relevant that Sydney clubs were on a path to completely abandoning any junior development squads, again to save costs.

Sydney this, Sydney that. Whatever... u have a massive chip on your shoulder. I almost feel sorry for you.

I fully support having an NRL club outsource a team for the NSW Cup using a team IN THEIR LOCAL AREA. Whether that team is the NRL club putting a team in the NSW Cup itself or outsourcing it to a LOCAL team makes no difference to me and is not what this arguement is about.

Where I have ever said the Raiders should have a Sydney-based feeder team? I am dead against that too because it defeats the purpose. I will repeat this for the 478th time for the dumb ones like you - the Raiders should be fielding a LOCAL TEAM in the NSW Cup (i.e. NOT A SYDNEY TEAM). Whether that team is outsourced to a local Canberra club or if the Raiders field a team themselves IS IRRELEVANT TO THIS DISCUSSION. The point of this discussion is that the Raiders should not be outsourcing their feeder team all the way up in Queensland to the detriment of the game in their local area.

The Sydney-based NRL teams who have feeder arrangements with their NSW Cup teams ARE TEAMS THAT ARE IN THE SYDNEY TEAM'S LOCAL AREA (except for Manly and they should be told to field a team in the NSW Cup as well).

 

[Bluebags1908]

If you were understanding what is going on, that is exactly what the NSWRL is telling the Raiders. That is one of the choices outlined to Canberra by the NSWRL.

Yes but have I ever said that they should have a Sydney-based team? I have only ever said they should have a local NSW Cup team.

 

[Bluebags1908]

the cowboys did something similar for 2 years. Our reserve grade team was denied access to the the QRL comp, so the club had no choice but to send the Young Guns down to sydney every 2nd weekend between 2000-2001 to play Newtown, Norths, Balmain, Wests etc.

I am glad they are back playing in the Q Cup because that's where they should be playing.

 

[Bluebags1908]

Unless the ARL are prepared to fund it then they (pseudo NSWRL) should have no say where clubs decide to link up with. That should be up to the clubs. IF they are funding it fair enough they can dictate what happens.

OK then, let's just have all the NRL teams follow the Raiders model. How's this for an idea?

Canberra can have their team based at Souths Logan
Penrith can have their team based in Newcastle
Newcastle can have their team based in Adelaide
Parramatta can have their team based in Queensland
Wests Tigers can have their team based in Afghanistan
Bulldogs can have their team based in Beirut
etc, etc, etc...

And let's just shut down the NSW Cup and don't play it. Just close the whole comp down and tell all the players to go where the feeder team is or play Rugby Union.

Great development work.

 

[Knightmare]

The way I see it, the Canberra Raiders are a club whose duty is to provide a chance at NRL representation for the players of the A.C.T and surrounding areas. Having their feeder team in Souths-Logan makes no sense, as that is (technically) located in the Broncos and Titans areas.

There is no A.C.T Rugby League competition, as the area is too small geographically and demographically to have a comp like the NSWRL/ QRL. The A.C.T is surrounded by NSW, and indeed many of the clubs that the Raiders are meant to represent on the national stage are located in NSW, so either the Raiders or a local team representing them should be playing in the NSWRL.

IMO using the "But we've had a link with Souths for 20 odd years" argument doesn't wash in the modern game, as this connection was penned in the days before the Broncos or the Gold Coast were competing in a national comp.

 

[siv]

Overall this highlights a bigger issue

The requirement for a national RG for NRL clubs, bringing back the 3 grades

Then you merge the Bundy and NSW Cups with NSW regonal based sides and all is addressed

So the new NSW Bundy Cup immediately would would be something like
- CC Bears, Newtown, Wenty, Ryde-Eastwood, Mounties, Windsor, Cabramatta, Campbelltown Magpies, Sydney Bulls, Adelaide, Perth, Western Division, Riverina, Northern Division, Northern Rivers, St Marys

 

[Raidersrawesome]

Someone needs to come up with a viable option. Its easy to say you cant send your players up to SL.
On average 4 players fly out every weekend , the others are QLD based.
The cost of doing that is minimal compared to setting up a new team with the infrastructure that is needed to feed an NRL side.

The SL team not only allows our players outside the top 17 to play but the SL club also runs the same structures as the Raiders do.
To restart all this again our players outside the 17 will suffer with the quality of football and the NRL team will suffer because of this.

The raiders represent their region its not as if they don't , they have a major input into the Canberra cup.